ESPN.com's 2007-08 award winners: Sixth Man Award

[shaq_h8ter]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SixthMan-0708

19 out of the 20 ESPN votes went to Manu and 1 vote for Leandro Barbosa.

:toast

[spurschick]

Pardon the "chick" moment, but that is a very pretty page. :makeout

[FromWayDowntown]

WTF is Chris Palmer thinking? He's going to be like Fred Hickman voting for Iverson in 2000 and denying Shaq the unanimous MVP that he deserved (only on a much smaller scale that nobody will actually remember because it concerns a minor award).

[spurschick]

The other guys need to walk down to his office and kick him in the balls.

[balli]

Manu shouldn't win this. Give it to an actual sixth man.

[Corn on the Colb]

Manu Ginobili being a 'sixth man' is as ridiculous as Mike Alstott being listed as a Fullback.

[spurschick]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/award.picks/index.html

[lefty]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91938

[Corn on the Colb]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/award.picks/index.html

Wow Williams and Boozer get no love. None whatsoever.

And why the hell is Yao even there?

[spurschick]

Wow Williams and Boozer get no love. None whatsoever.

And why the hell is Yao even there?

I was wondering the same thing. I look at the these all NBA teams kinda like all-star teams. It's more of a popularity contest.

[Corn on the Colb]

I was wondering the same thing. I look at the these all NBA teams kinda like all-star teams. It's more of a popularity contest.

Yup.

See: Coach of the Year.

Jerry fucking Sloan anybody? Ever? How about when his starting lineup was Carlos Arroyo, Raja Bell, Matt Harpring, Andrei Kirilenko, and Keon Clark/Greg Ostertag/Jarron Collins and he still got them to the playoffs.

After that I put much less stock in postseason awards because the voters are homers.

[Jack Sommersset]

I don't want to hear any crying about how the Spurs don't get treated fair and how they get ripped every year for an award. Its bs to start with and Manu is not a sixth man. He plays starter minutes. They don't start him because he plays like a wild animal and gets into foul trouble to fast. Everyone knows that.

Go Spurs Go

[Kori Ellis]

All of these ESPN guys don't have real votes for the awards, so it will be interesting to see the real results compared to these percentages.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manu shouldn't win this. Give it to an actual sixth man.

I understand your point, but I'd add a caveat that I think makes the Ginobili situation one that warrants reward in some historically-significant way: for a guy who could be demanding all sorts of things, Ginobili puts the team's needs first and accepts a role that a lot of other players might not. I actually think that, in some ways, what Ginobili has been doing is going to change the way that some rosters are built and teams are going to think hard about bringing that sort of game-changer off the bench to change the dynamic of games. There is a sort of unselfishness that is implicit in the 6th Man Award and Ginobili undoubtedly has that quality.

Plus, I don't see his win in this category being much different than a guy like Detlef Schrempf or Kevin McHale winning the award back in the 80's or early 90's. McHale's wins are particularly significant in showing, I think, that voters will (and should) reward a guy who comes off the bench, even if he's a good enough player -- a Hall of Fame player -- to make the difference that starters usually make.

[balli]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/award.picks/index.html

It's no wonder SI is going down the tubes. I still subscribe out of tradition, but fuck if they ever actually have good opinions, analysis or anything worth reading at all actually.

[Corn on the Colb]

All of these ESPN guys don't have real votes for the awards, so it will be interesting to see the real results compared to these percentages.

That's my only hope that Manu doesn't get a Sixth Man award because I'm assuming the voters have bigger brains than Jamele Hill. :pctoss

[balli]

I understand your point, but I'd add a caveat that I think makes the Ginobili situation one that warrants reward in some historically-significant way: for a guy who could be demanding all sorts of things, Ginobili puts the team's needs first and accepts a role that a lot of other players might not. I actually think that, in some ways, what Ginobili has been doing is going to change the way that some rosters are built and teams are going to think hard about bringing that sort of game-changer off the bench to change the dynamic of games. There is a sort of unselfishness that is implicit in the 6th Man Award and Ginobili undoubtedly has that quality.

Plus, I don't see his win in this category being much different than a guy like Detlef Schrempf or Kevin McHale winning the award back in the 80's or early 90's. McHale's wins are particularly significant in showing, I think, that voters will (and should) reward a guy who comes off the bench, even if he's a good enough player -- a Hall of Fame player -- to make the difference that starters usually make.

It is pretty damn big of Manu to do what he does and as much as I hate him for always killing my team, I do respect the hell out of his game and attitude. I just think that everyone knows that already. He doesn't need the award to prove himself- his game and attitude has already done it for him.

I mean what are they going to do, just give it to him every year, as long as Pop keeps bringing him off the bench? Like Barkley said, in that case, they might as well retire the award.

[balli]

All of these ESPN guys don't have real votes for the awards, so it will be interesting to see the real results compared to these percentages.

Here's one ballot from the UT beat writer- for the record he has Manu as sixth man.



Awards season
This writer's awards ballot was e-mailed to the NBA office tonight from San Antonio

MVP

1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 2. LeBron James, Cleveland 3. Chris Paul, New Orleans 4. Kevin Garnett, Boston 5. Deron Williams, Utah

Comment: As one of two first-place Bryant voters last season, I think he's beyond due to win his first MVP. All he's done this season is lead the Lakers to the best record in the Western Conference while playing with a torn ligament in his pinkie since the All-Star break and enjoying his "best year ever as far as an overall team player," according to Phil Jackson.

There's also no disputing Williams' value for those of us who watch him for 82 games a season. He's only averaged 18.9 points and 12.4 assists since the All-Star break while assuming leadership of the Jazz (along with Carlos Boozer) in just his third season. As Boozer has said before, it's scary to think what Williams will be doing in his eighth year.

All-NBA

First team C Dwight Howard, Orlando F LeBron James, Cleveland F Kevin Garnett, Boston G Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers G Chris Paul, New Orleans

Second team C Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix F Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas F Paul Pierce, Boston G Manu Ginobili, San Antonio G Deron Williams, Utah

Third team C Tim Duncan, San Antonio F Carlos Boozer, Utah F Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers G Tracy McGrady, Houston G Steve Nash, Phoenix

Comment: Howard would be a leading MVP candidate any other year in averaging 20.9 points and 14.3 rebounds for the Magic. Both Stoudemire and Duncan played the majority of their minutes this season at center. The case for Gasol starts and ends with the fact that the Lakers are 22-5 with him in the lineup. Tough to leave out both Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson.

Coach of the year 1. Phil Jackson, L.A. Lakers 2. Byron Scott, New Orleans 3. Rick Adelman, Houston

Comment: Not only did he successfully navigate Bryant's trade demand last summer, Jackson also integrated Pau Gasol into the triangle offense at midseason. But Jackson deserves the most credit for the way the Lakers' youngest players - - Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic, Ronny Turiaf and Andrew Bynum - - have developed since his return as coach.

Rookie of the year 1. Kevin Durant, Seattle 2. Luis Scola, Houston 3. Al Horford, Atlanta

Comment: Durant improved throughout the season despite being thrown into a toxic situation in Seattle. It's easy to forget Durant was the youngest player in the NBA this season and averaged 20 points with little in the way of a supporting cast. Scola was the NBA's most polished rookie, which was to be expected from the 28-year-old Argentine star.

Most improved player 1. Andrew Bynum, L.A. Lakers 2. Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee 3. Al Jefferson, Minnesota

Comment: Although he only played 35 games before suffering a knee injury, Bynum (13.1 points, 10.2 rebounds) was head and shoulders the NBA's most improved player the first two months of the season. If he makes a complete recovery, there's little doubt he will be a future All-Star and a cornerstone of the Lakers for year to come.

As an aside, the NBA offers some guidance for this award by saying it should go to an "up-and-coming" player. As strong a season as Hedo Turkoglu had in Orlando, it's difficult to make the case that at 29 years old, having played eight seasons in the NBA, he's an "up-and-comer."

Sixth man 1. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio 2. Leandro Barbosa, Phoenix 3. Ben Gordon, Chicago

Defensive player of the year 1. Kevin Garnett, Boston 2. Shane Battier, Houston 3. Marcus Camby, Denver

Comment: Both of these awards were no-brainers. More than Tony Parker or Tim Duncan, Ginobili probably was the Spurs' driving force this season. There are those in the Jazz organization who believe he is the NBA's most underrated player. Garnett's impact on the Celtics, especially on the defensive end, is unquestioned.

--Ross Siler

[FromWayDowntown]

Yup.

See: Coach of the Year.

Jerry fucking Sloan anybody? Ever? How about when his starting lineup was Carlos Arroyo, Raja Bell, Matt Harpring, Andrei Kirilenko, and Keon Clark/Greg Ostertag/Jarron Collins and he still got them to the playoffs.

After that I put much less stock in postseason awards because the voters are homers.

There are some awards that I largely disregard -- Defensive Player of the Year has been a joke to me for some time (I put a lot more stock in the All-Defense teams, just because they're voted on by coaches). Like you, I think the Coach of the Year award is flawed because truly great coaches like Sloan, Phil Jackson, and Gregg Popovich only rarely have a chance to win the award while mediocre coaches who find themselves in suddenly-great situations are always in the running.

That Jerry Sloan has never won COY is beyond ludicrous.

[Jack Sommersset]

It is pretty damn big of Manu to do what he does and as much as I hate him for always killing my team, I do respect the hell out of his game and attitude. I just think that everyone knows that already. He doesn't need the award to prove himself- his game and attitude has already done it for him.

I mean what are they going to do, just give it to him every year, as long as Pop keeps bringing him off the bench? Like Barkley said, in that case, they might as well retire the award.

Yup.Yup.Yup. Mangoo is a good player. He is no 6th man. He comes of the bench because he HAS to. Its in the best interest for the Spurs and for Mangoo. He starts. He gets into foul trouble and Pop is forced to get him out of the game when Pop does not want to. IT IS WHAT IT IS.

Give Mangoo the award. Who gives a crap. He will win it this year. There not that player, a real 6th man that sticks out this year. Give him this token award so Spurs fans will stop crying about awards.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is pretty damn big of Manu to do what he does and as much as I hate him for always killing my team, I do respect the hell out of his game and attitude. I just think that everyone knows that already. He doesn't need the award to prove himself- his game and attitude has already done it for him.

I mean what are they going to do, just give it to him every year, as long as Pop keeps bringing him off the bench? Like Barkley said, in that case, they might as well retire the award.

I think your viewpoint will carry the day at some point (ala Jordan not always winning MVP), even if Pop just keeps bringing him off the bench for the next few years. To me, the point of giving him the award this year is that it creates an historical marker to acknowledge for all-time what we all know from watching. I don't think Ginobili's unselfishness will always be so self-evident to NBA fans and the sentimental side of me thinks that he deserves the sort of historical legacy for his team-first attitude that actually winning the award will ensure.

I'd also add this: there were years in which Ginobili was a marginal starter/marginal 6th man sort of guy and didn't win the award (he's finished 2nd (2007) and 3rd (2004) in the past). He's clearly been one of the elite 6th men of this era (even before he cemented his status as a legitimate star-level player) and there's a part of me (biased as I might be) that thinks that he deserves recognition for having been that kind of a player.

[xtremesteven33]

BARBOSA??!!.....manu got robbed

[balli]

To me, the point of giving him the award this year is that it creates an historical marker to acknowledge for all-time what we all know from watching. I don't think Ginobili's unselfishness will always be so self-evident to NBA fans and the sentimental side of me thinks that he deserves the sort of historical legacy for his team-first attitude that actually winning the award will ensure.

I guess I can see that. Especially since Barbosa took it last year. I also tend to forget the average fans aren't total NBA junkies like the rest of us. It wouldn't kill me to see Manu get it THIS season. Better than Barbosa anyway.

[Corn on the Colb]

There are some awards that I largely disregard -- Defensive Player of the Year has been a joke to me for some time (I put a lot more stock in the All-Defense teams, just because they're voted on by coaches). Like you, I think the Coach of the Year award is flawed because truly great coaches like Sloan, Phil Jackson, and Gregg Popovich only rarely have a chance to win the award while mediocre coaches who find themselves in suddenly-great situations are always in the running.

That Jerry Sloan has never won COY is beyond ludicrous.

I agree man, there's no reason that AK shouldn't have won ONE DPOY (god i sound like a homer, but whatever haha.)

I know there's more people who have been hosed on these awards, but obviously the Jazz players will be the first in mind for me. So sorry. :)

[FromWayDowntown]

I agree man, there's no reason that AK shouldn't have won ONE DPOY (god i sound like a homer, but whatever haha.)

I know there's more people who have been hosed on these awards, but obviously the Jazz players will be the first in mind for me. So sorry. :)

You might ask Bruce Bowen about having never won a DPOY award.

[1Parker1]

:lol Sam Mitchell winning the COY award last year over Jerry Sloan who's team went to the WCF is a joke. I honestly thought last year there was no competition or gray area in who the COY should have been.

[Corn on the Colb]

You might ask Bruce Bowen about having never won a DPOY award.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF6CIOQTEwA

Okay, the guy who posted this video on youtube is a tool, but it's got a lot to do with why he has never won. He's disliked, I think.

[AZSportsFan]

Barbosa was an easy pick last year. Who was yours?

[Kermit]

I don't want to hear any crying about how the Spurs don't get treated fair and how they get ripped every year for an award. Its bs to start with and Manu is not a sixth man. He plays starter minutes. They don't start him because he plays like a wild animal and gets into foul trouble to fast. Everyone knows that.

Go Spurs Go

Now if you can just explain to everyone what "sixth man" minutes are and how this quantity of minutes should disqualify one from the award. Also, elaborate on "starter" minutes and just how many one has to have to be included on the All-NBA teams. I don't think Tim qualifies. Thanks!!!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

PPG:

Manu 19.6, Leandro 15.8

RPG:

Manu 4.8, Leandro 2.8

APG:

Manu 4.5, Leandro 2.6

SPG:

Manu 1.5, Leandro .9

BPG:

Manu 0.4, Leandro 0.2

FG%:

Manu .458, Leandro. 464

FT%:

Manu .858, Leandro .821

3PT%:

Manu .401, Leandro .391


I guess Chris Palmer values FG% above all else :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF6CIOQTEwA

Okay, the guy who posted this video on youtube is a tool, but it's got a lot to do with why he has never won. He's disliked, I think.

But that shouldn't even be in the criteria. And, honestly, Bowen's chippiness wasn't a matter of much public or media debate until at least the latter parts of the 04-05 season (Ray Allen's tantrums about Bowen) or sometime during the 05-06 season.

There's little doubt, from an observational standpoint or an empircial standpoint, that Bruce Bowen has been a premier perimeter defender in this league for years -- if not THE premier perimeter defender in the league. He's unique in the way that he can check just about every other team's best player -- certainly every other team's best wing or guard -- and be effective on a nightly basis doing that. He doesn't have the stats that a guy like Kirilenko or Camby or Ben Wallace or others might have, but I'd argue that he's better than all of those guys because he just steadily does a job that can only be measured effectively by esoteric metrics that few people actually understand.

If its outrageous that Jerry Sloan has never been COY, it's equally outrageous that Bruce Bowen has never been DPOY. At least Sloan will have many more chances to get that recognition. Bowen is unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 more chances, if that, to get that long, long, long overdue reward for his excellence.

[Spurminator]

I'm tired of hearing that Manu isn't a true sixth man. There is no gray area here. You either start most games or you come off the bench most games. Manu has come off the bench most games, and is the first off the bench most games. To suggest he isn't a sixth man isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's a matter of being wrong.

Kevin McHale was an All Star and averaged 19-9 in his 6th man years. Ricky Pierce won it averaging 23 ppg. This isn't the first time one of the best two or three players on a team has been up for 6th Man.

[balli]

Barbosa was an easy pick last year. Who was yours?
Who was who's pick? Mine? I'll assume so since I spoke his name last.

Barbosa. I just think it help's Manu's cause for this year, that's all.

[balli]

I'm tired of hearing that Manu isn't a true sixth man. There is no gray area here. You either start most games or you come off the bench most games. Manu has come off the bench most games, and is the first off the bench most games. To suggest he isn't a sixth man isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's a matter of being wrong.

Kevin McHale was an All Star and averaged 19-9 in his 6th man years. Ricky Pierce won it averaging 23 ppg. This isn't the first time one of the best two or three players on a team has been up for 6th Man.

Okay? I mean I've already conceded giving it to him this year. Let's just say he stayed on the bench for the next six years and in each of those seasons he was the best bench player, as he is now. By your logic he'd win it six seasons in a row. I'm all for him getting some recognition, but to say that there is no room for grey area is ridiculous and bordering on arrogant. All the other bench players, who couldn't be starting on any of the other 29 teams deserve some respect too. That's the point of the award, to reward guys who otherwise aren't yet good enough to start, but still manage to contribute.

[Spurminator]

No, the point of the award is to award the best player who comes off the bench. And why not award players who are good enough to start but set their egos aside for the sake of their teams?

And Manu wouldn't win it that many years in a row because voters like to spread things out.

[AZSportsFan]

Who was who's pick? Mine? I'll assume so since I spoke his name last.

Barbosa. I just think it help's Manu's cause for this year, that's all.
Oh, I misread your post. I thought you were saying that Barbosa shouldn't have won it last year, but instead you were saying that Barbosa has already won it so Manu [easy choice, IMO] should win it this year over Barbosa. My mistake.

[Spurminator]

There have been nine (out of 25) 6MOY winners who averaged more minutes per game than Manu.

[O-Factor]

Manu Ginobili being a 'sixth man' is as ridiculous as Mike Alstott being listed as a Fullback.

Don't Hate.

[FromWayDowntown]

There have been nine (out of 25) 6MOY winners who averaged more minutes per game than Manu.

Frankly, I think McHale's wins in the 80's invalidate the only existing criticisms against honoring Ginobili with this award. The same could be said for the fact that Antawn Jamison won the award in 2004 -- was there any great hue and cry about giving the award to Jamison, who had started 82 games in each of the three preceeding years while being a 20 ppg scorer? If there was, I honestly don't recall it.

There's never been any reason to think that the fact that a guy is a great player should somehow disqualify him from winning 6MOY. Indeed, McHale was making the All-Star team when he won 6MOY (Manu hasn't -- his one All-Star appearance came in 2005, when he started 74 games).

It does seem like there has been at least one conversion on Manu's having rightfully earned this recognition in this thread, but I'd like for others to see that the arguments being made against Manu as 6MOY are, as best I can tell, historically unprecedented. I don't know that anyone has ever suggested disqualifying a player from winning 6MOY because he was too good.

[Jack Sommersset]

Now if you can just explain to everyone what "sixth man" minutes are and how this quantity of minutes should disqualify one from the award. Also, elaborate on "starter" minutes and just how many one has to have to be included on the All-NBA teams. I don't think Tim qualifies. Thanks!!!


Your welcome. I have explained. I will try a different approach for you. Honestly. Every knows Mangoo is not a "6th man" But here you go.

Starters for Spurs:

Tony Parker = 33 Minutes

Oberto=20 minutes

Duncan 34 minutes

Bowen 30 minutes

FInley = 27 minutes

Then there is Mangoo = 31 minutes

The bench. I think 18 minutes was the most someone averaged. Mangoo has more minutes then 3 of the starters on his own team. He plays more than the guy he replaces, Finley or Barry if he gets the nod. Please as a Spur fan clap when Mangoo gets the award but don't cry about how the Spurs get ripped off from other awards and the Spurs are treated so badly. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Spurminator]

There have been nine (out of 25) 6MOY winners who averaged more minutes per game than Manu.

[Jack Sommersset]

:elephant Ya and the Celtics last year tanked there season just like the Spurs did to try obtain the number one pick in Draft. And The Miami Heat are doing it this year. Does not make it right.

Its a BS award. Its suppose to go to the 6th best player on a team of the entire league. Mangoo is a all star who finds himself in foul trouble thus Poppy sits him a spell to tame the wild beast.

[FromWayDowntown]

but don't cry about how the Spurs get ripped off from other awards and the Spurs are treated so badly. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Actually, I cry for the way the Grizzlies are mistreated by the voting media.

[Spurminator]

Is that drivel supposed to represent some kind of argument or did your meds kick in?

[FromWayDowntown]

a all star

Not in 2008.


who finds himself in foul trouble thus Poppy sits him a spell to tame the wild beast.

Interesting that you would say that foul trouble is really the reason that Manu comes off the bench. Guys who average less than 3 fouls per night, has had 4 fouls or more in only 13 games all season, and hasn't fouled out of a game all year are usually the sorts you think of as foul magnets who can't start games.

[Jack Sommersset]

Not a Grizzles fan. NBA fan. Had to pick a team to register.

Fromwaydown town-, Pop learned not to start the wild foulling beast thats why his fouls are down this year. Of course he is not a allstar this year. His own team won't start him but we all know he is one

Sperminator- Meds? Reallly, thats your next part of the conversation. You said one thing earlier in the thread, then repeated it a second time and now, Meds? Nice. And no I am not arguing.

[FromWayDowntown]

Fromwaydown town-, Pop learned not to start the wild foulling beast thats why his fouls are down this year. Of course he is not a allstar this year. His own team won't start him but we all know he is one

Manu's averaging the same number of fouls per game this year as he has in every year of his playing career.

Honestly, I don't think you're paying much attention to the NBA if you're truly convinced that fouls have anything to do with why Manu comes off the bench.

[Spurminator]

Again with the fouling thing? Manu has never averaged more than 2.6 fouls per game in a season. Where are you getting this crap?

Maybe I was wrong on the meds, you're just on hard drugs.

[Spurminator]

Damn, I keep posting right behind FWD... It's like we're double teaming Ricky Davis.

[FromWayDowntown]

Damn, I keep posting right behind FWD... It's like we're double teaming Ricky Davis.

:lol

I don't know, though -- Ricky Davis occasionally comes up with points.

[DAF86]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/award.picks/index.html

That Marty Burns guy's a joke he selects Billups and Iverson (McGrady could be debatible) before Manu for the all nba teams. :madrun

[Jack Sommersset]

Manu's averaging the same number of fouls per game this year as he has in every year of his playing career.

Honestly, I don't think you're paying much attention to the NBA if you're truly convinced that fouls have anything to do with why Manu comes off the bench.


Honestly, You have to be kidding me. You can't be paying attention to the Spurs if you don't think that is the main reason he comes off the bench.There is a guy in Mangoo that only knows one way to play. That way can get him in to trouble.

The Mavericks can thank him for going to the Championship game 2 years ago. He can't help himself. He is very aggressive all the time.Game 7. Let Dirk go to the rim and advance to another championship. Nope he only knows one way to play. He fouls him going for a block.

Pop saves him as much as he can and does not start him so that he can stay in the game. Please.

[FromWayDowntown]

Honestly, You have to be kidding me. You can't be paying attention to the Spurs if you don't think that is the main reason he comes off the bench.There is a guy in Mangoo that only knows one way to play. That way can get him in to trouble.

The Mavericks can thank him for going to the Championship game 2 years ago. He can't help himself. He is very aggressive all the time.Game 7. Let Dirk go to the rim and advance to another championship. Nope he only knows one way to play. He fouls him going for a block.

Pop saves him as much as he can and does not start him so that he can stay in the game. Please.

Yeah, you know, I've only been watching the Spurs closely for something like the last 30 years. I'd defy you to find me a quote by Popovich saying that Manu comes off the bench to stave off foul troubles.

Manu's foul against Dirk would have happened whether Manu started that game or came off the bench. It's not as if Manu wouldn't have been playing in the closing seconds of regulation if he had come off the bench that night.

In fact, during last year's NBA Finals here's exactly what Pop said about why Manu comes off the bench:

http://www.nba.com/nba_news/ginobili_sixth_070609.html?rss=true


Spurs coach Gregg Popovich moved Ginobili to the bench midway through the season in hopes of getting more offensive energy from his reserves.

* * * *

Popovich called the decision to bring the 29-year-old Ginobili off the bench a "seat-of-the-pants sort of thing.''

"The bench wasn't really producing a whole lot. I thought maybe it would be easier for Michael (Finley) or Brent (Barry) to play with the starting group,'' Popovich said. "And I'm fortunate in that Manu is the kind of guy that obviously cares more about the team. Sure, he'd rather start, but he'll do whatever he's got to do for the team and would take it well and not moan and groan about it.''

Now, I wonder which of these will be your response -- will it be:

(1) Popovich doesn't really understand why he's bringing Ginobili off the bench; or

(2) Popovich is lying; or

(3) Popovich has reasons for bringing Ginobili off the bench that he's only explained to you and that he then systematically lies to the media about those reasons.

[Gino]

I'm tired of hearing that Manu isn't a true sixth man. There is no gray area here. You either start most games or you come off the bench most games. Manu has come off the bench most games, and is the first off the bench most games. To suggest he isn't a sixth man isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's a matter of being wrong.

Kevin McHale was an All Star and averaged 19-9 in his 6th man years. Ricky Pierce won it averaging 23 ppg. This isn't the first time one of the best two or three players on a team has been up for 6th Man.

Not really. Manu is a bench player in name only. This is actually kind of an insult to him. Is Manu the Spurs' sixth man?

[FromWayDowntown]

This nonsense about Manu's foul trouble is particularly absurd since he hasn't fouled out of a regular season game since November 7, 2004 (at Seattle) and has fouled out of 2 of his 90 playoff games and didn't start either of those games (Gm. 1, 2003 WCF vs. Dallas; Game 4, 2006 WCSF @ Dallas).

[FromWayDowntown]

Not really. Manu is a bench player in name only. This is actually kind of an insult to him. Is Manu the Spurs' sixth man?

Was Kevin McHale truly the Celtics' sixth man in 1984 or 1985?

[RoundTableVoice]

KEVIN McHALE won the SIXTH man both years !

[Spurminator]

Not really. Manu is a bench player in name only. This is actually kind of an insult to him. Is Manu the Spurs' sixth man?


Yes. Manu is the Spurs' sixth man. He is a bench player in both name and function.

[Jack Sommersset]

Yeah, you know, I've only been watching the Spurs closely for something like the last 30 years. I'd defy you to find me a quote by Popovich saying that Manu comes off the bench to stave off foul troubles.

Manu's foul against Dirk would have happened whether Manu started that game or came off the bench. It's not as if Manu wouldn't have been playing in the closing seconds of regulation if he had come off the bench that night.

In fact, during last year's NBA Finals here's exactly what Pop said about why Manu comes off the bench:

http://www.nba.com/nba_news/ginobili_sixth_070609.html?rss=true



Now, I wonder which of these will be your response -- will it be:

(1) Popovich doesn't really understand why he's bringing Ginobili off the bench; or

(2) Popovich is lying; or

(3) Popovich has reasons for bringing Ginobili off the bench that he's only explained to you and that he then systematically lies to the media about those reasons.

I skimmed over your post. I choose number 2. I think its more of saving face for Mangoo but I guess a lie is a lie. 30 years of watching Spurs has color blind you. I am not impressed. I won't bother spelling it out for you anymore. You just don't understand.

Go Spurs GO

[Gino]

Was Kevin McHale truly the Celtics' sixth man in 1984 or 1985?

How the hell should I know? I was 4 and 5. Give us another example from the last twenty years where the sixth man wasn't really the "sixth man". That is, there wasn't someone better starting in his place.

[Spurminator]

Ben Gordon.

That was easy.

[FromWayDowntown]

How the hell should I know? I was 4 and 5. Give us another example from the last twenty years where the sixth man wasn't really the "sixth man". That is, there wasn't someone better starting in his place.

Antawn Jamison, Dallas Mavericks, 2003-04.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'll also say this: if Manu was playing somewhere other than San Antonio and was coming off the bench to aid the club, it seems likely to me that: (a) he would have won 6th Man of the Year already; and (b) there wouldn't be people concocting unprecedented overqualification arguments to claim that he shouldn't win the award.

[Obstructed_View]

Calling BS on JS. Nobody is that stupid and sticks to such a ridiculous argument for any other reason than to try to piss people off.

[Phenomanul]

Calling BS on JS. Nobody is that stupid and sticks to such a ridiculous argument for any other reason than to try to piss people off.


Exactly.... It appears he has nothing left to win his stupid argument than to resort to trolling... why else would he end his posts in "GO Spurs GO"???

[Jack Sommersset]

Exactly.... It appears he has nothing left to win his stupid argument than to resort to trolling... why else would he end his posts in "GO Spurs GO"???

Its not about winning my friends, its not about trolling amigos.Its not about name calling folks. Its an opinion that is correct. I honestly for the life of me don't understand what some of you see. Its right in front of you. The guy is 3rd in minutes on his own team. .......?He is.....

I am not doing this again....I have said more than I needed to in spirit of the conversation.Some of you need to look outside the box. Don't hate. If you have something to contribute that could change opinions please do so.

Go Spurs Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BIG z]

Timmy got no votes for Defensive, well people just dont realize what kind of a role he plays on our team, people just look at stats...

[gino>yourlife]

nice to see manu FINALLY getting some love

[porscha]

it would be better if he's getting the Sexy Man Award :lol :lol :lol :lol

[LilMissSPURfect]

Cinco for MANU!!!!!!!

[TMTTRIO]

It's really stupid for Manu to win it. the 6MOY award is mostly for the best role players that come off the bench. Manu should've made the All Star game instead this year and is much more important to our team then a simple role player.

[spursfan09]

Why do fans of the other teams care that Manu might win it? What's the big deal. He deserves it as much anyone. He could be starting and complaining but he doesn't. Instead he puts the team first. That deserves recognition don't you think? So if he gets it, he gets it. Are ya'll just tired of the Spurs winning trophies?

[Obstructed_View]

It's really stupid for Manu to win it. the 6MOY award is mostly for the best role players that come off the bench. Manu should've made the All Star game instead this year and is much more important to our team then a simple role player.
It's not an award for role players, it's an award for non-starting players. That's all. Don't read more into it than is there. If the NBA wants to change the requirements for the award so Manu doesn't qualify, that's fine, but for now it's his award.