What is Tim Duncan's religion?

[Tacker]

anyone know?

[samikeyp]

Church Of Tim.

:)

[ClingingMars]

*predicts a duncan228 post with the correct answer*

*meanwhile, consults wikipedia*

- Mars

[bdictjames]

I dont think he goes to church.

[BlackSwordsMan]

He's a level 60 merlin in D&D

[ClingingMars]

when i looked through the search results of 'tim duncan religion' on google, i found this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2442499

- Mars

[samikeyp]

He is the Crucian Shaman. :tu

[Ariel]

He's Manuist. Hardcore Manuist.

[G-Nob]

church of the poison mind

[BlackSwordsMan]

Church of hack-a-shaq

[bigfundamental21]

duncan228 in 4, 3, 2.....

[duncan228]

I actually don't know. *The crowd gasps.*

There's not too much I don't know about him, if it's out there I find it. I've never found anything about him and religion.

[K-State Spur]

Voodoo. Look very very closely at his seat under the bench and you'll see Jobu.

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/image.php?u=16998&dateline=1191397848

[ClingingMars]

I actually don't know. *The crowd gasps.*

There's not too much I don't know about him, if it's out there I find it. I've never found anything about him and religion.

The world is coming to an end. :downspin:

- Mars

[bigfundamental21]

I actually don't know. *The crowd gasps.*

There's not too much I don't know about him, if it's out there I find it. I've never found anything about him and religion.


:lol

A little gasp only.... but we know you would be the one to know if the info was out there.

[samikeyp]

Voodoo. Look very very closely at his seat under the bench and you'll see Jobu.

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/image.php?u=16998&dateline=1191397848

You no help me now.....I say fuck you Jobu, I do it myself.

:lol

[Los Spurs]

He's a Jehovah's Witness

[bdictjames]

Just a question.. is there any point in a game where Duncan points his fingers up above as if to thank the one?

[bigfundamental21]

You no help me now.....I say fuck you Jobu, I do it myself.

:lol


:lmao

[slayermin]

Whatever Amy is?

[bigfundamental21]

Just a question.. is there any point in a game where Duncan points his fingers up above as if to thank the one?


Yes... I think duncan228 probably has a pic of him doing so.

[ClingingMars]

He's a Jehovah's Witness

source?

- Mars

[resistanze]

Hasidic Jew.

[bdictjames]

Yes... I think duncan228 probably has a pic of him doing so.
Aight man, for a second there I thought Duncan was an atheist. If he was Im not sure he's even human. :lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I actually don't know.

And I can shit solved rubik's cubes.
Really, what's his religion please? ;)

[td4mvp21]

And I can shit solved rubik's cubes.
Really, what's his religion please? ;)

:lol

[duncan228]

Just a question.. is there any point in a game where Duncan points his fingers up above as if to thank the one?

Duncan points both index fingers up after a big win. A big Playoff win or a Championship. He also looks up when he does it. Somewhere I have a quote from his sister that says he still hears his mothers voice cheering him on. I think that's why he points. He's connecting with his parents who aren't there to see it.

[duncan228]

And I can shit solved rubik's cubes.
Really, what's his religion please? ;)

I'm keeping it a secret with his son's name. :)

I think it's the only 2 things I don't know about him.

[Los Spurs]

Duncan points both index fingers up after a big win. A big Playoff win or a Championship. He also looks up when he does it. Somewhere I have a quote from his sister that says he still hears his mothers voice cheering him on. I think that's why he points. He's connecting with his parents who aren't there to see it.



I wish his Parents were alive not only to cheer him on but to see his beautiful children...

:depressed

[bdictjames]

Duncan points both index fingers up after a big win. A big Playoff win or a Championship. He also looks up when he does it. Somewhere I have a quote from his sister that says he still hears his mothers voice cheering him on. I think that's why he points. He's connecting with his parents who aren't there to see it.
Wow, I wasn't expecting that much info, but thanks.

Duncan is a weird guy. Weird is cool in my book.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm keeping it a secret with his son's name. :)

I think it's the only 2 things I don't know about him.

Well then there's only one thing to do...
break into his house.

[td4mvp21]

TNT showed Duncan's daughter in the 05-06 season I think, she was a very cute kid.

[td4mvp21]

Random fact

[duncan228]

Wow, I wasn't expecting that much info, but thanks.

You guys should know by now...Ask me about Duncan and I'll talk. :lol

And it's just my theory on why he points, his sister's quote is how I got there.

[duncan228]

Well then there's only one thing to do...
break into his house.

I don't go there Bottomtooth. :)

[easjer]

In the 2003 SI SportsMen of the Year edition, they have a moment in Duncan's interview where he talks about the intersection of his religious beliefs with his relationship with David Robinson (who, of course, is very outspoken about his Christianity). He (Duncan) says that it's not a problem between them, that he does have his own religious beliefs and that DRob was respectful of that.

That's about as close as I think you are going to get. I expect, based on those statements, that he does have some sort of religious belief/belief in a higher power, but in what direction, if any, that extends, is clearly a private matter.

[bigfundamental21]

Whatever religion Duncan is, it is clear that he has been blessed with unbelievable talent.

[ClingingMars]

In the 2003 SI SportsMen of the Year edition, they have a moment in Duncan's interview where he talks about the intersection of his religious beliefs with his relationship with David Robinson (who, of course, is very outspoken about his Christianity). He (Duncan) says that it's not a problem between them, that he does have his own religious beliefs and that DRob was respectful of that.

That's about as close as I think you are going to get. I expect, based on those statements, that he does have some sort of religious belief/belief in a higher power, but in what direction, if any, that extends, is clearly a private matter.

obviously not a Christian then.

- Mars

[duncan228]

TNT showed Duncan's daughter in the 05-06 season I think, she was a very cute kid.

From the Finals last year.


http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/family/6-14wsydney.jpg

[duncan228]

...clearly a private matter.

Like most everything about his personal life.

[m33p0]

from his childhood experience dealing with the death of his mother at an early age and losing the only connection tim has of her when a hurricane wiped out the island's only olympic size swimming pool, i'd say he's an atheist or at the very least, a non-sectarian.

[m33p0]

when i looked through the search results of 'tim duncan religion' on google, i found this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2442499

- Mars
Church of Tim is right. :lol

[Don Quixote]

from his childhood experience dealing with the death of his mother at an early age and losing the only connection tim has of her when a hurricane wiped out the island's only olympic size swimming pool, i'd say he's an atheist or at the very least, a non-sectarian.

Well, the problem of suffering sometimes leads people to disbelieve altogether. But it's an awful big leap to say that because bad things happened, then therefore there is no God, or that Tim disbelieves. We don't know this. Indeed, I know quite a few people whose faith was quickened or strengthened because of suffering and bad things happening. So it goes both ways.

I would, however, like to know where Tim stands.

BTW ... I never thought David was that outspoken about his faith. I've always found him honest and transparent, very well-mannered, and hardly controversial at all in public.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Tim Duncan's religion - PLAYOFF WARRIOR.

Actually, I'd bet he is either agnostic or athiest. Or maybe Rastafarian.

PS 228, I'm very disappointed in you! :lol

[SPARKY]

Offseason thread.

[Don Quixote]

And Tim couldn't argue against God by denying miracles. He has clearly witnessed them -- both for him and against him.

And ... he couldn't argue against God by denying some sort of teleology or "design" in the universe, for, as it says, on the 6th day God created the Spurs. And he saw that they were perfect. How can the existence of basketball perfection happen in a non-teleological universe?

[Trainwreck2100]

he worships himself, for he is God

[kbyanks21]

I'm keeping it a secret with his son's name. :)

I think it's the only 2 things I don't know about him.


We should guess Tim's son's name. I have my guesses. I actually knew about Sydney's name way before they said it in the news.

Also, I think Tim's Episcopalian. The majority of St. Croix's population is Christian, mostly protestants and he went to St. Dunstan's Episcopal High School, so it would make sense. Also when he got married I was pretty sure they said the name of the place where he got married in St. Croix.

[makedamnsure]

I don't know if this counts for anything but he used to wear that ying/yang thing when he was younger.

[xtremesteven33]

i think he is a deist. he just believes in a God but doesnt know who this God is....im sure David tried his best to make him see that Jesus is Lord.....

[Don Quixote]

he worships himself, as he is God

That raises questions, too. Lots of questions ...

Has he ever answered your prayers? (Um, yes he has. Next question.)

What has he ever created?

And, even though Tim is great, he still appears to be a finite being that exists inside the universe. How, then, can a finite being exercise infinite power, as God does? To have infinite power is necessarily dependent upon him residing outside of space and time. Yet, here he is, among us.

[Avitus1]

I dont know what religion Timmy is but I know who his minister is.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

[Kori Ellis]

obviously not a Christian then.

- Mars

No, not necessarily. That was a big assumption on your part.

[BiZNicK]

Clutchism?

[DespЏrado]

I think Deist is the closest you are going to get to the right answer without asking the man himself.

I will say this though in the '99 championship video; there is a scene with him on the bus and he is wearing a religious necklace. Any guesses as to what it was?

[Don Quixote]

I dont know what religion Timmy is but I know who his minister is.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Yes, a man with a minister that we can believe in!

Great choice, Timmy, for your spiritual mentor.

[TampaDude]

TD's religion??? BASKETBALL!!!

[Don Quixote]

I think Deist is the closest you are going to get to the right answer without asking the man himself.

I will say this though in the '99 championship video; there is a scene with him on the bus and he is wearing a religious necklace. Any guesses as to what it was?

Well, in America, religious necklaces mean nothing. In China or Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, they mean a whole lot. Since a cross will likely get your thrown in prison in Saudi, you'll never see one there.

Deism is not a popular position in the schoolhouse, hasn't been since the 19th century. Are they still around?

[DespЏrado]

Well, in America, religious necklaces mean nothing. In China or Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, they mean a whole lot. Since a cross will likely get your thrown in prison in Saudi, you'll never see one there.

Deism is not a popular position in the schoolhouse, hasn't been since the 19th century. Are they still around?

I would say they are making a comeback as a politically moderate position more than anything actually practiced, for people who accept God but not necessarily the biblical version of it.

[makedamnsure]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii60/ifernand3z/duncr.jpg

is this the necklace someone mentioned?

[cnyc3]

timmay looks... relaxed

[makedamnsure]

duncan228, I'm sure you have this picture. I used to have it on my wall but he's holding a bowling ball and you can see the ying/yang necklace a lot clearer.

[DespЏrado]

Not the one I remember seeing. But I can hardly see what that actually is.


Anyways the answer was that he was wearing a Yin Yang pendant irc. Not much of a statement of to his actual religious beliefs but it fits his low key personality and a deist like belief system.

I hope no one takes this too seriously. People are entitled to their own beliefs and practices. And Duncan is entitled to some privacy.

[Don Quixote]

I would say they are making a comeback as a politically moderate position more than anything actually practiced, for people who accept God but not necessarily the biblical version of it.

Yes, deism was popular during the Enlightenment for those who were fine with his existence and the doctrine of creation, but rejected the doctrines of providence and revelation. They seemed to have an a priori objection to the supernatural; viz., Thomas Jefferson's famous Bible that had every miracle cut out of it. What were his reasons? Were they based on textual or manuscript evidence? No. It was a naturalistic bias, that's all.

I wouldn't say, though, that Tim is a deist. Clearly, God has provided for the Spurs.

[td4mvp21]

obviously not a Christian then.

- Mars

Not really. My parents are very devout Christians and I consider myself a Christian yet we have different beliefs on certain issues and it's caused conflict before. So maybe Tim just has different Christian beliefs than David.

I've wondered this too. I always wondered if maybe the reason he was good friends with DRob was because maybe they shared similar beliefs. Who knows. I can see him being Christian and I could also see him being agnostic/athiest. He's a good guy either way so it doesn't really matter to me. Just a sheer curiosity thing.

[DespЏrado]

duncan228, I'm sure you have this picture. I used to have it on my wall but he's holding a bowling ball and you can see the ying/yang necklace a lot clearer.

Correct answer!

[Don Quixote]

Not really. My parents are very devout Christians and I consider myself a Christian yet we have different beliefs on certain issues and it's caused conflict before. So maybe Tim just has different Christian beliefs than David.

I take it you are a Calvinist, then, and your parents are Arminian. Those devils!

Or is it that they prefer the old hymns, and you like contemporary stuff. Those old farts!

Big differences indeed. :bking

[DespЏrado]

Yes, deism was popular during the Enlightenment for those who were fine with his existence and the doctrine of creation, but rejected the doctrines of providence and revelation. They seemed to have an a priori objection to the supernatural; viz., Thomas Jefferson's famous Bible that had every miracle cut out of it. What were his reasons? Were they based on textual or manuscript evidence? No. It was a naturalistic bias, that's all.

I wouldn't say, though, that Tim is a deist. Clearly, God has provided for the Spurs.

Deism doesn't have to mean specifically for Duncan what it meant for Jefferson. But I just wanted to point out that I don't think Duncan is adverse to a belief in God. But he is not an outspoken advocate for it either. So I think classifying him as a deist is the closest to what you are going to get to the truth.

[td4mvp21]

I take it you are a Calvinist, then, and your parents are Arminian. Those devils!

Or is it that they prefer the old hymns, and you like contemporary stuff. Those old farts!

Big differences indeed. :bking

Uh, no.

[Don Quixote]

No ... I think what you mean to say is that WE are agnostic about what he believes. Deism is not agnosticism -- it is a religious and metaphysical belief that God created the world, and then abandoned it. But we don't know that Tim believes (a) in God, (b) that He created the world, or (c) that God abandoned it.

We are reasonably sure about (a) and (b) -- they seem to go together. But we don't know at all about (c).

Of course, Tim is entitled to his privacy. You won't see me outside his front door, or calling his cell phone to ask him. But I do care about him as a person, so I guess that's why I care about his religion.

[Don Quixote]

Uh, no.

I see. Your parents are dispensational pre-trib premillenials, and you are amillennial. Those demons.

[duncan228]

I'm as curious about everything Duncan as anyone. One of the hard things about being a fan of his is trying to respect the privacy lines he's drawn. There are things I'd like to know but he obviously doesn't want the information out. I try my best to respect his wish for privacy.

[Brutalis]

He is whipped hardcore. So I assume whatever his wife is? I think TD is a free spirit.

[Don Quixote]

I'm as curious about everything Duncan as anyone. One of the hard things about being a fan of his is trying to respect the privacy lines he's drawn. There are things I'd like to know but he obviously doesn't want the information out. I try my best to respect his wish for privacy.

Like I said, you won't see sticking a mic in his face, asking, "So, Tim, what's your religion!?"

On the other hand, religion is not strictly a private thing. It has a public component, no?

[DespЏrado]

No ... I think what you mean to say is that WE are agnostic about what he believes. Deism is not agnosticism -- it is a religious and metaphysical belief that God created the world, and then abandoned it. But we don't know that Tim believes (a) in God, (b) that He created the world, or (c) that God abandoned it.

We are reasonably sure about (a) and (b) -- they seem to go together. But we don't know at all about (c).

Of course, Tim is entitled to his privacy. You won't see me outside his front door, or calling his cell phone to ask him. But I do care about him as a person, so I guess that's why I care about his religion.

:lol I didn't mean to get into a debate about the nature of God and our beliefs in God. I didn't mean to ascribe to Duncan the moral certainty that God abandoned the world, and nor do I think Deism has to mean one thing for all people. What you are describing is historically accurate, but as with anything in history symbols change as people and culture change around it.

[Don Quixote]

:lol nor do I think Deism has to mean one thing for all people. What you are describing is historically accurate, but as with anything in history symbols change as people and culture change around it.

Let's not get postmodern here! Words mean things! :lol Deism is deism. If there's another definition, I'm all ears.

That said, I'm with the guy who suggested he's Episcopal, like much of St. Croix.

[duncan228]

On the other hand, religion is not strictly a private thing. It has a public component, no?

Only if he makes it public. If he chooses to show up at a church or other religious house, he's making it public. If he keeps it within his family and friends, he's keeping it private. We can't know what he doesn't let out.

[Don Quixote]

Quite right. Even then, though, his religion is public with the ones he knows.

Religion has almost always had a public component, going back to the beginnings of civilization. We in the West seem to be the exception in this regard.

[Tek_XX]

Well according to two myspace fansites he's catholic, though i can't find that anywhere else. Most Virgin islanders are either Baptist, catholic, or epicopalian. I'm guessing Duncan practiceses in the church of indifference.

[DespЏrado]

Let's not get postmodern here! Words mean things! :lol Deism is deism. If there's another definition, I'm all ears.

That said, I'm with the guy who suggested he's Episcopal, like much of St. Croix.

I use deism over agnosticism because agnosticism never has been a belief system that can be attributed to somebody, rather it serves our language as a negating descriptor only. IE- "I do not believe in <insert organized religions offending characteristic here.>" Deism while historically has meant one thing it has at it's very core that which agnosticism does not, a central theme of beliefs that are tenants of faith.

Therefore I called Duncan a deist. Someone who at his very core probably believes in God, but not one that is necessarily described by the biblical account. He was most likely raised to be an episcopal church member, but I am not so quick to attribute a fully Christian world view to Duncan when he wore a yin yang pendant.

[nikegirl]

If he is Catholic that would be totally cool cos I am one too! I never really thought I'd ever find people who are bigger fans of Tim than I am! And thats saying a lot cos I really think I am his biggest fan here where Im from

[duncan228]

I never really thought I'd ever find people who are bigger fans of Tim than I am! And thats saying a lot cos I really think I am his biggest fan here where Im from

Welcome to the forum. I think you'll find a couple of big Duncan fans here. :)

[nikegirl]

Yeah which is good to know coz there are people who understand how much I love him! And my friends here dont like him cos he keeps on killing their teams (most current one, Suns). Hey duncan228 maybe you got some really interesting stuff you can send to me about him? I really wanna see and read all the stuff casual fans do not know about him! Like that awesome pic of him with his wife, baby and Bateer! :)

[duncan228]

Like that awesome pic of him with his wife, baby and Bateer! :)

Here's the pic.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/family/family.jpg

[O-Factor]

anyone know?

Church of XBOX

[m33p0]

Well, the problem of suffering sometimes leads people to disbelieve altogether. But it's an awful big leap to say that because bad things happened, then therefore there is no God, or that Tim disbelieves. We don't know this. Indeed, I know quite a few people whose faith was quickened or strengthened because of suffering and bad things happening. So it goes both ways.

I would, however, like to know where Tim stands.

BTW ... I never thought David was that outspoken about his faith. I've always found him honest and transparent, very well-mannered, and hardly controversial at all in public.
its one of the sublte and yet most profound moment in a person's life when a belief is either strengthened or dismantled e.g. when a child finally learns that there is no santa (laugh if you will, but that is profound).

[Indazone]

Well according to two myspace fansites he's catholic, though i can't find that anywhere else. Most Virgin islanders are either Baptist, catholic, or epicopalian. I'm guessing Duncan practiceses in the church of indifference.


If he's from the islands, you forgot one other religion possibility. The Rastafarians. Duncan could be right there with Bob Marley but isn't as stupid as Josh Howard in admitting pot use. Hallie Selassie baby!!

[hater]

Druid

[stretch]

He's a Jehovah's Witness

Robert Pack became one not too long ago. Seriously too. He lives over near the Hebron/Carrolton area. On the side, I work under him as a travel agent and play basketball with him from time to time. The dude is still in amazing shape and can still jump out of this world. It's really not even fun to play with him because he makes everyone else look so bad.

[Tacker]

Well according to two myspace fansites he's catholic, though i can't find that anywhere else. Most Virgin islanders are either Baptist, catholic, or epicopalian. I'm guessing Duncan practiceses in the church of indifference.

I can create a myspace right now and say it's Tony Parker's..............Bad source

[Dark Matter]

its one of the sublte and yet most profound moment in a person's life when a belief is either strengthened or dismantled e.g. when a child finally learns that there is no santa (laugh if you will, but that is profound).

So true in my case. when I found this out, it was the 1st day of the rest of my life. The true wake up call. It cause me to question EVERYTHING that I have been told ever since. I trust no ones statements with proof period. The santa bullshit needs to be rework at the very least. BAH humbug, thus the phase "Happy Holidays".

[Reggie Miller]

Tim is a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
He has a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

[cherylsteele]

Is he a druid, a pagan? j/k

[lefty]

Spurology

[lefty]

she a hottie

The Chinese person in the middle is not a lesbian.

He's a former Spur.

[spurster]

He's a fundamentalist, obviously.

[lefty]

Timmy has his own religion....rub his belly or go fuck yourselves

http://www.danwashburn.com/blogger/buddhaduncan.gif

[Don Quixote]

Robert Pack became [a Jehovah's Witness] not too long ago. Seriously too.

Yikes! What was he thinking?

Did his wife drag him in? Was he raised a JW? Or did he not do too much research?

[Galileo]

Tim used to be a Branch Davidian, but gave that up after God struck down Mt. Carmal.

Now Tim is a Christian disciple of Origen Adamantius of Alexandria:

Origen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

[Don Quixote]

I happen to be a student of the Patristics -- Origen being one of them.

Given Tim's cerebral nature, tt would not surprise me if, indeed, he were a student of the writings of Augustine, Origen, Irenaeus, et al. That is, of course, if he were a Christian. On the other hand, I've never met a single cultist (Branch Davidian, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Scientist) who ever read much, or knew much, about the early church and its teachers. So part of your statement must be false.

[Galileo]

I happen to be a student of the Patristics -- Origen being one of them.

Given Tim's cerebral nature, tt would not surprise me if, indeed, he were a student of the writings of Augustine, Origen, Irenaeus, et al. That is, of course, if he were a Christian. On the other hand, I've never met a single cultist (Branch Davidian, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Scientist) who ever read much, or knew much, about the early church and its teachers. So part of your statement must be false.

Tim also dabbles in bracketology.

Origen was a great man.

Not so Augustine and Irenaeus, I detest Augustine and Irenaeus, who were spewers of hate. Origen spewed love.

Augustine couldn't even read ancient Greek, he was such a dumbass. He had to read everything in translation so nothing he says can be trusted.

Origen
Early Opposition to Origen
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd10.html

Origen--Continued
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd11.html

The Eulogists of Origen
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd12.html

[mavsfan1000]

Duncan is a Satan Worshipper. He gave his soul to the Devil. That's where he gets his freakish post moves. :D

[dmac]

He's a fundamentalist, obviously.

I'm going to buy you are a beer for that! That was going to be my answer!

[JamesatWar]

I'm keeping it a secret with his son's name. :)

I think it's the only 2 things I don't know about him.

Do you know his phone number, address, and home alarm security password?

Do you want to? :hat

[Jayem]

Yikes! What was he thinking?

Did his wife drag him in? Was he raised a JW? Or did he not do too much research?what religious person actually thinks?

[dg7md]

Ahh, religion.

[Don Quixote]

what religious person actually thinks?

Tactless, yet rude.

[DespЏrado]

He's a fundamentalist, obviously.

:lol:lolThread over! you win! one internet for you my good sir.

[angel_luv]

If you watch the 2005 Championship Dvd- the special part " Tim Duncan goes home" it shows the church Tim attended as a child.
Also Tim talks about how God leads you in life.

Edit:

Just re- watched the special and it does not show Timmy's church. I must be thinking of another special because I also remember seeing a part about some restaurant Timmy used to frequent as a kid.
But Timmy does say in the above special that God has lead him and he is blessed.

[pauls931]

The most boring one I can think of is Budhism so that must be it.

[angel_luv]

The most boring one I can think of is Budhism so that must be it.

Nope, go fish!

[possessed]

Is he a druid, a pagan? j/k

Devout Odinist, actually.

[Don Quixote]

Given Tim's quiet and cerebral nature, and that he seems to appreciate art and philosophy, I could see him in an Episcopal or Catholic setting. Maybe Presbyterian. They do a better job of incorporating beauty and mystery in their worship and theology.

Speaking as a Baptist, I freely admit that we are, um, often aesthetically challenged. So I don't see him in a Baptist or American evangelical church.

[mistwiya]

came to search for TD's religion and ended up in this unsolved thread.... sigh

[z0sa]

Some people may believe there is a higher being, but simply choose not to follow closer than that.

I definitely see Tim as one of those guys.

[duncan228]

Just a question.. is there any point in a game where Duncan points his fingers up above as if to thank the one?

I don't know why I didn't post a pic of him doing this when the thread was going on, but here's one from the '05 Championship.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/champion/05win.jpg

[Supergirl]

obviously not a Christian then.

- Mars

I wouldn't assume that. David Robinson (and AJ) are a very specific brand of Christianity - they're both born again, Pentecostal Christians. Tim could very well be a Catholic, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a Congregationalist...etc, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if he were a Unitarian or a Buddhist. Just a hunch from what I know about his beliefs and attitudes.

[xtremesteven33]

I wouldn't assume that. David Robinson (and AJ) are a very specific brand of Christianity - they're both born again, Pentecostal Christians. Tim could very well be a Catholic, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a Congregationalist...etc, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if he were a Unitarian or a Buddhist. Just a hunch from what I know about his beliefs and attitudes.


Buddhist are not monotheists, i think Timmy is

[baseline bum]

Is there anyway to put Tacker on some kind of restriction from creating threads?

[Brutalis]

DRob is pentecostal? Ahhh fuck man. Why does he wear shorts then?

[Brutalis]

Here's the pic.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/family/family.jpg

Aww they paused the game for the picture too!

[spurman20]

Aww they paused the game for the picture too!

were is this pic from?

[spurman20]

I think Duncan studies SOFTTOLOGY

[Brutalis]

were is this pic from?

duncan228's a stalker. And we love her for it.

[spurman20]

:rollin
duncan228's a stalker. And we love her for it.

[whottt]

Duncan's really hard to peg on this.

He was probably raised a Christian in one way or another....but you know he lost his parents(especially his mom) at a young age and I'm sure that lead to some soul seaching on his part...it would for me.


You look at his foundation and it has no religious affiliation that I know of.

You at things he likes and there is fantasy or escapist element to them...D&D Ren Fairs, his favorite movie is The Crow, Video Games. His favorite color is black.


For his career choice he chose pychology...a science. You listen to him talk and you can see he has a natural affinity and inclination for positive cognitive programming. I mean you never hear Duncan say he hopes to win...he always says we're going to win. And when he does win, you never hear him giving credit to a higher power.

Most of the things he is lauded for publicly, like finishing school and being so competitive are to me, ways of honoring his mother and promises he made to her.



About the only evidence you can find of him identifying with some form of organized religion is that he lists reggae as his favorite form of music...and that is far from conclusive.

Maybe the most revealing things about what his beliefs might be are what he doesn't say...


When asked what he would want if he could have one wish granted, he doesn't wish for his mom to have been able to see him play(inspite of obviously being extremely devoted and paying tribute to her in his actions and deeds)..he wishes for good health.

You add that to the sky gestures he makes, which to me always seems to be a message directly to his mom, sometimes his dad, and probably sometimes both...

And it seems on some level he does feel that they get to see him play.

And the fact that he never mentions god or anything after victory speeches...

To the fact that most christians will be very forthcoming with their christianity when asked...and Duncan is the sort that if that question wasn't important to him he'd just give the most boring non-controverisal stock answer he could come up with whether it was what he truly felt or not...and that would be an easy answer for him if he were a traditional christian. It'd be a question he'd be happy to get out of the way IMO.


I'd say he's probably an agnostic or has an evolving and changing belief system...he probably believes in something higher, or at least he wants too. I'd say the subject is something he feels strongly about, and it is an emotional subject for him, but it's not something he's resolved yet, and he's still searching. And whatever spiritual beliefs he does have, it's probably not any sort of organized or rigid belief system. If he does lean toward some organized system from time to time it's probably the religion of his mom, since he seems to have taken most of her other beliefs to heart.


For a "boring" dude...he's pretty mysterious when you think about it. Not a known or easy to know quantity at all.

[whottt]

I definitely don't think he's a buddhist...he inflicts way too much pain, suffering and misery on the basketball court for that to be the case.

[duncan228]

duncan228's a stalker. And we love her for it.

:)

I prefer the term specialist. I specialize in Duncan...From a safe distance away.

[xtremesteven33]

good post....i like how you put alot of thought into it.

i hope Tim does find Truth though. I know people personally who are searching for Truth and meaning in life and its a tough road. they are always sad and depressed. im not Tim is like that,but it does sometimes appear that way..haha.

but if i had to say a religion, i would probably say hes just a Deist.

[duncan228]

You add that to the sky gestures he makes, which to me always seems to be a message directly to his mom, sometimes his dad, and probably sometimes both...

And it seems on some level he does feel that they get to see him play.

The quote from Duncan's sister that I mentioned earlier in the thread:

“Mom never got to see Timmy play ball seriously. But I think she’s looking down from heaven cheering him on—the loudest voice among all the angels. I think Timmy still hears her.”
—Cheryl Duncan Lowery


For a "boring" dude...he's pretty mysterious when you think about it. Not a known or easy to know quantity at all.

To say the least. I've been following him for years and sometimes I think I don't know anymore about him than when he was in college.

Nice post whottt, you make some interesting points to ponder.

[leemajors]

d&d is basically a religion, so you gotta go with that.

[Oh, Gee!!]

rastafari

[Supergirl]

Buddhist are not monotheists, i think Timmy is

Oy vey, how does misinformation like this get spread? Buddhists are not monotheists?

[xtremesteven33]

Oy vey, how does misinformation like this get spread? Buddhists are not monotheists?


they are not. Buddhists actually dont believe in any God...they believe in self Nirvana

[Supergirl]

I definitely don't think he's a buddhist...he inflicts way too much pain, suffering and misery on the basketball court for that to be the case.

First Noble Truth of Buddhism: All life is suffering.

[Supergirl]

OK, let's clarify: Buddhism is "non-theistic" according to Wikipedia -- which does not mean absence or presence of G-d in the belief system. It means than the belief system is constructed independent of whether the individual belief in G-d. It's essentially more of a philosophy, which is why some people describe themselves as "Jewish Buddhists" or "Christian Buddhists" - they have a Jewish or Christian conception of G-d but a Buddhist philosophy, which are not completely incompatible with one another.

I obviously have no idea what religion Timmy is, but he seems to be a deeply philosophical person. It is clear he does not see eye to eye with DRob and AJ's Christianity, but they were all grownups who could respect each other.

I thought the observation that he is clearly drawn to fantasy worlds was interesting, but this does not necessarily mean he is not a spiritually minded person as well.

[50 cent]

from his childhood experience dealing with the death of his mother at an early age and losing the only connection tim has of her when a hurricane wiped out the island's only olympic size swimming pool, i'd say he's an atheist or at the very least, a non-sectarian.

Not to mention .4 after Duncan hit that incredible shot to give us the lead.

[xtremesteven33]

OK, let's clarify: Buddhism is "non-theistic" according to Wikipedia -- which does not mean absence or presence of G-d in the belief system. It means than the belief system is constructed independent of whether the individual belief in G-d. It's essentially more of a philosophy, which is why some people describe themselves as "Jewish Buddhists" or "Christian Buddhists" - they have a Jewish or Christian conception of G-d but a Buddhist philosophy, which are not completely incompatible with one another.

I obviously have no idea what religion Timmy is, but he seems to be a deeply philosophical person. It is clear he does not see eye to eye with DRob and AJ's Christianity, but they were all grownups who could respect each other.

I thought the observation that he is clearly drawn to fantasy worlds was interesting, but this does not necessarily mean he is not a spiritually minded person as well.

yea i see what you mean but the original religion of Buddhism does not involve a "God".
sure there can be different branches of Buddhism but originally there is no monothism or polytheism. just atheism to its root. that we are "Gods" in a sense. Buddhism started with teachings. Not a belief in God

[Supergirl]

yea i see what you mean but the original religion of Buddhism does not involve a "God".
sure there can be different branches of Buddhism but originally there is no monothism or polytheism. just atheism to its root. that we are "Gods" in a sense. Buddhism started with teachings. Not a belief in God

Not atheism, that is the distinction I am trying to make. Have you met many Buddhists? Most that *I* have met are quite definitely NOT atheists. One can be an atheist and be a Buddhist, but many Buddhists are not atheists. But I also know many Jews who describe themselves both as Jewish and atheist, and a few Catholics who describe themselves as atheists. But I don't think anyone here would suggest that Jews and Christians are ALL atheists.

[porksword]

I don't know what religion TD belongs to but after seeing that clip in 50 cent's sig I am converting to the Church of Jessica Biel.

[xtremesteven33]

Not atheism, that is the distinction I am trying to make. Have you met many Buddhists? Most that *I* have met are quite definitely NOT atheists. One can be an atheist and be a Buddhist, but many Buddhists are not atheists. But I also know many Jews who describe themselves both as Jewish and atheist, and a few Catholics who describe themselves as atheists. But I don't think anyone here would suggest that Jews and Christians are ALL atheists.


-Jewish is an ethnicity not a religion only
-i talked only about the origin of Buddhism, i specified that not all Buddhists are the same, and yes i know some.
-a catholic cannot be an atheist. it is theologically impossible
-Christianity has a monotheistic theology, Hinduism has Polytheism, and Buddhism(originally) does not base its beliefs in a single God or Gods

[Summers]

Good gravy, I can't believe this thread popped up again.

He was raised Episcopalian. He attended St John's Episcopalian church and went to St Dunstan's Episcopalian school. What he practices and believes now, however, is not something that he shares publicly.

[Newton]

Good gravy, I can't believe this thread popped up again.

He was raised Episcopalian. He attended St John's Episcopalian church and went to St Dunstan's Episcopalian school. What he practices and believes now, however, is not something that he shares publicly.

Which is fitting, since it is no one's damned business but his.

[Extra Stout]

I wouldn't assume that. David Robinson (and AJ) are a very specific brand of Christianity - they're both born again, Pentecostal Christians. Tim could very well be a Catholic, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a Congregationalist...etc, etc.
Neiher Robinson nor Johnson are members of Pentecostal churches.

[whottt]

First Noble Truth of Buddhism: All life is suffering.




I realize that...

Now do any of the other noble truths of buddhism involve going and kicking the shit out of people on the basketball court by being dominant, better than the others, and winning championships?


Plus...it was a joke.

[whottt]

OK, let's clarify: Buddhism is "non-theistic" according to Wikipedia -- which does not mean absence or presence of G-d in the belief system. It means than the belief system is constructed independent of whether the individual belief in G-d. It's essentially more of a philosophy, which is why some people describe themselves as "Jewish Buddhists" or "Christian Buddhists" - they have a Jewish or Christian conception of G-d but a Buddhist philosophy, which are not completely incompatible with one another.

I obviously have no idea what religion Timmy is, but he seems to be a deeply philosophical person. It is clear he does not see eye to eye with DRob and AJ's Christianity, but they were all grownups who could respect each other.

I thought the observation that he is clearly drawn to fantasy worlds was interesting, but this does not necessarily mean he is not a spiritually minded person as well.


Um...if Duncan wasn't somewhat accepting of Christianity he'd have gone utterly batshit crazy playing with Drob and AJ...

I'm not saying he embraces it, but he is somewhat accepting of it and familiar with it, it's at least comfortable to him...he'd have been on the first bus out of SA if it wasn't.

Because DRob and AJ were extremely religious and it was felt on the team. They pushed it...

[whottt]

The quote from Duncan's sister that I mentioned earlier in the thread:

“Mom never got to see Timmy play ball seriously. But I think she’s looking down from heaven cheering him on—the loudest voice among all the angels. I think Timmy still hears her.”
—Cheryl Duncan Lowery



To say the least. I've been following him for years and sometimes I think I don't know anymore about him than when he was in college.

Nice post whottt, you make some interesting points to ponder.



Thanks...yeah I figure Duncan's beliefs are somewhat electic like himself. I don't think he's overly religious, but I do think it is an important subject for him...he has all the earmarks of someone searching spiritually IMO...but he hasn't found what he's looking for yet. I get the feeling he is openminded on the subject...if not yet satisfied. That's just my opinion though.

[LakerHater]

Ask the magic eight-ball. :downspin:

[Dramon]

Sorry to revive a dead thread but I found this and thought i'd post it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRX_xC2-VWM&feature=related

Right at about 5:45.

[duncan228]

If you watch the 2005 Championship Dvd- the special part " Tim Duncan goes home" it shows the church Tim attended as a child.
Also Tim talks about how God leads you in life.

Edit:

Just re- watched the special and it does not show Timmy's church. I must be thinking of another special because I also remember seeing a part about some restaurant Timmy used to frequent as a kid.
But Timmy does say in the above special that God has lead him and he is blessed.


Sorry to revive a dead thread but I found this and thought i'd post it.

Right at about 5:45.

This is the special Angel_Luv was talking about.

Duncan mentions God and being blessed periodically, when he wins Titles and when he talks about hard times. But that hasn't led to any proof of his specific religion.

[Brutalis]

This is the special Angel_Luv was talking about.

Duncan mentions God and being blessed periodically, when he wins Titles and when he talks about hard times. But that hasn't led to any proof of his specific religion.

It does kick Buddha and evolution right out of the water though!

[duncan228]

:lol I have complete faith that ST will get this question answered sooner or later.

[mavs>spurs2]

Guys breaking news Duncan just changed his religion he now worships Dwight Howard..

[DynastyBuilder]

Guys breaking news Duncan just changed his religion he now worships Dwight Howard..

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/fail-owned-family-picture-fail.jpg

[JamStone]

Probably already said in this thread, but...

Ginobilism.

[IronMexican]

Jehovah's witness, i seen that foo knocking on the door yesterday.

[Russ]

I know it's the summer but this is ridiculous.

[Russ]

Tim is a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
He has a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

(You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
Deteriorata, Deteriorata)

Go placidly amidst the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof. Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep. Rotate your tires. Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself; and heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys. Know what to kiss - and when. Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do. Wherever possible, put people on hold. Be comforted, that in the face of all irridity and disillusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in computer maintenance.

(You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
Whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.)

Remember the Pueblo. Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate. Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI. Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you... That lemon on your left, for instance. Be assured that a walk through the seas of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet. Fall not in love, therefore, it will stick to your face. Gracefully surrender the things of youth: the birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan - and let not the sands of time get in your lunch. Hire people with hooks. For a good time, call 606-4311, ask for Ken. Take heart in the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese. And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be worse in Milwaukee.

(You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
Whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.)

Therefore, make peace with your god, whatever you perceive him to be: hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin. With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal, the world continues to deteriorate. GIVE UP!

(You are a fluke of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
Whether you can hear it or not,
The universe is laughing behind your back.)

:flag:

[wisnub]

I think he;s a Moslem. He looks like a lil bit arabic too. He doesnt speak much because he doesnt want everybody talking about it =)

[sehui]

I think he;s a Moslem. He looks like a lil bit arabic too. He doesnt speak much because he doesnt want everybody talking about it =)

-_-


its World of Warcraft-ism.

I read somewhere he plays WoW, lol

[Tacker]

anyone know yet???

[smrattler]

I thought Timmy WAS a religion?

:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Vulcans are not religious. Spock is no exception.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Both me and Tim Duncan follow the same religion..

Its called the religion of basketball. The difference is - he practices it and embodies it, I merely follow it. He is a high priest and I am a layman :)

[eyeh8u]

http://www.jemagic.com/Celebs/Images/Tim-Duncan-Full-Size.jpg
check out his necklace for clues

[duncan228]

I'm keeping it a secret with his son's name. :)

I think it's the only 2 things I don't know about him.

We know his son's name now but I still haven't seen anything about his religion.

[TDMVPDPOY]

tim duncan has become more than a man, his become a god

ur words and thoughts become absolute

[LakerHater]

Well he attended St. Dunstan's Episcopal High School:

http://people.famouswhy.com/tim_duncan/

[WWTDD]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123364

[Summers]

Well he attended St. Dunstan's Episcopal High School:

http://people.famouswhy.com/tim_duncan/

And attended an Anglican (Episcopalian) church. I think it's safe to assume he's Espiscopalian.

[greyforest]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/fail-owned-family-picture-fail.jpg

underwear is clearly on

this fail picture is fail

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Duncan is just Duncan

[Chase_the_Bass]

BTW ... I never thought David was that outspoken about his faith. I've always found him honest and transparent, very well-mannered, and hardly controversial at all in public.

David Robinson one time took Dennis Rodman aside and said to him something along the lines of, "Dennis, I'm worried about you man. Do you have Jesus in your life?"

/resurrect

[jaffies]

David Robinson one time took Dennis Rodman aside and said to him something along the lines of, "Dennis, I'm worried about you man. Do you have Jesus in your life?"

/resurrect

Dammit!
I've been thinking of posting this exact comment for over 26 months, and you beat me to it by a couple of minutes.

[Kewni Leonard]

I would assume Tim is an atheist, especially with his mom dying at an early age and all.

[Fireball]

Timmy is a member of the "church of winning" ... nothing else

[FromWayDowntown]

Whatever the reason for the bump -- what a nice reminder of a lot of now-scarce screen names around these parts.

And whottt . . . . :depressed

[manufan10]

Whatever the reason for the bump -- what a nice reminder of a lot of now-scarce screen names around these parts.

And whottt . . . . :depressed

That's what I was thinking as I was glancing through it. :(

[TimmehC]

The necklace makes it seem like he could be taoist.

[Kamnik]

He seems smart enough to be an atheist.

[Cane]

Duncan's a Bob Marley kind of guy, so he worships love and weed :hat

[Proxy]

I just assume he's something along the lines of agnostic/atheists... you take enough psychology/science classes, you're bound to see things differently.

I'm happy to be a fellow Atheist alongside my good friend Manu Ginobili as well.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Yikes, five pages of this? Do you people have lives?

[z0sa]

I just assume he's something along the lines of agnostic/atheists... you take enough psychology/science classes, you're bound to see things differently.

One of the first things you learn about in psych and science are the inaccuracies of generalizing..

[GSH]

I'm happy to be a fellow Atheist alongside my good friend Manu Ginobili as well.


I must have missed the memo about Practically Famous Day.

I'm sure with that, and your never ending stream of psychology anecdotes, the girls will just come a-runnin'.

[tuncaboylu]

I think Duncan is rational enough not to believe the myths

[Manu-of-steel]

Timmy has a God. He couldn't be an atheist.

[jestersmash]

Timmy has a God. He couldn't be an atheist.

K8E_zMLCRNg

[Proxy]

I must have missed the memo about Practically Famous Day.

I'm sure with that, and your never ending stream of psychology anecdotes, the girls will just come a-runnin'.

Girls melt when I show them Manu's number in my contacts.

[foodie2]

I'm coming late to this thread, but is Tim's son's name really a secret? Because Sean said it on a telecast a couple of weeks ago. I'd never heard it but I assumed I was just behind the times. Did Sean slip and give it away?

[Kori Ellis]

I'm coming late to this thread, but is Tim's son's name really a secret? Because Sean said it on a telecast a couple of weeks ago. I'd never heard it but I assumed I was just behind the times. Did Sean slip and give it away?

That's an old post saying that. It's not a secret at all now (it's Draven) but they kept it under wraps for a while right after he was born, I think.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

That's an old post saying that. It's not a secret at all now (it's Draven) but they kept it under wraps for a while right after he was born, I think.

Draven. Interesting. Weren't they a nasty alien species that supported the shadows in Babylon 5? :lol

[Drz]

I'd be fairly surprised if it wasn't related to Eric Draven, the main character in The Crow.

[jhfenton]

Draven. Interesting. Weren't they a nasty alien species that supported the shadows in Babylon 5? :lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakh

[tmtcsc]

I used to think televangelists or Jesus freaks were some of the most annoying people in the world.

But they have easily been surpassed by the intellectual dead enders who claim that belief in God is akin to believing in the Easter Bunny. Your idea of the Bible is just as warped as those who believe it was meant to be interpreted word for word and without symbolism.

Just do everyone a favor and accept you lack the capacity to believe. No harm. You just don't get it. You don't feel it, don't understand it and can't accept it. That goes for professional athletes like Manu (who is my favorite player) and for all the outspoken entertainers like Bill Maher.

Agree to disagree and stop with the cynical, passive-aggressive remarks.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I used to think televangelists or Jesus freaks were some of the most annoying people in the world.

But they have easily been surpassed by the intellectual dead enders who claim that belief in God is akin to believing in the Easter Bunny. Your idea of the Bible is just as warped as those who believe it was meant to be interpreted word for word and without symbolism.

Just do everyone a favor and accept you lack the capacity to believe. No harm. You just don't get it. You don't feel it, don't understand it and can't accept it. That goes for professional athletes like Manu (who is my favorite player) and for all the outspoken entertainers like Bill Maher.

Agree to disagree and stop with the cynical, passive-aggressive remarks.

:lmao

wUVXEmJRGns

[Proxy]

I used to think televangelists or Jesus freaks were some of the most annoying people in the world.

But they have easily been surpassed by the intellectual dead enders who claim that belief in God is akin to believing in the Easter Bunny. Your idea of the Bible is just as warped as those who believe it was meant to be interpreted word for word and without symbolism.

Just do everyone a favor and accept you lack the capacity to believe. No harm. You just don't get it. You don't feel it, don't understand it and can't accept it. That goes for professional athletes like Manu (who is my favorite player) and for all the outspoken entertainers like Bill Maher.

Agree to disagree and stop with the cynical, passive-aggressive remarks.

Sorry, but it's about time the world left the easter bunny behind. I get the whole mindset you want to promote, but that won't result in change.

I could've agreed that what you said seemed somewhat logical, until the remark that 'intellectuals' lack the capacity to believe. What a load of hypocritical and nonsensical bullshit the second half of your post is.

[Dunc n Dave]

He seems smart enough to be an atheist.

lol being atheist automatically = being smart

[SinBAD]

Sorry, but it's about time the world left the easter bunny behind. I get the whole mindset you want to promote, but that won't result in change.

I could've agreed that what you said seemed somewhat logical, until the remark that 'intellectuals' lack the capacity to believe. What a load of hypocritical and nonsensical bullshit the second half of your post is.

I'm muslim and i have to agree that all athiests just don't have the capacity to understand and believe.All muslims, christians and jews are people of the book, believe in the same god and the evidence is too obvious to ignore.if you choose to ignore it it's your decision but you will pay the price one day.God has given you too much to be ignored.how would u feel if ur son ignored u and says u dont exist.you wont pay the price now, you'll pay it after you die.lets think about intelligent design for a second, if its true that we are just a bunch of cells that come together by intelligent design and we are alive as long as these cells are alive, explain to me what is soul?where does the soul go?after people die their cells are still working for a while, their hearts can still be pumping, infact their whole body can still be functional but yet theyr die.why is that?its because the soul goes away.where does the soul come from?soul can't be explained by science.soul is from god.believe it or not i could care less but i delivered god's message and its up to u to believe it.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

lol being atheist automatically = being smart


In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Nyborg) examined whether IQ relates to denomination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) and income (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income), using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Longitudinal_Surveys), which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_%28journal%29), demonstrated that Atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-Nyborg-3)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.18/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg)
The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-intmag-4)


Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn), emeritus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emeritus) professor of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) at the University of Ulster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Ulster), which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries. [5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-intmag-4) The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than those adhering to a religion.
Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”"


"Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show that about 90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests that there are few modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith than science is."

[Dunc n Dave]

I used to think televangelists or Jesus freaks were some of the most annoying people in the world.

But they have easily been surpassed by the intellectual dead enders who claim that belief in God is akin to believing in the Easter Bunny. Your idea of the Bible is just as warped as those who believe it was meant to be interpreted word for word and without symbolism.

Just do everyone a favor and accept you lack the capacity to believe. No harm. You just don't get it. You don't feel it, don't understand it and can't accept it. That goes for professional athletes like Manu (who is my favorite player) and for all the outspoken entertainers like Bill Maher.

Agree to disagree and stop with the cynical, passive-aggressive remarks.

this

MOST of the "Jesus=Easter Bunny" cynics have never even read the entire Bible (and therfeore have no business pretending to have an educated opinion on it) and just say the myth/Easter Bunny comments because its the "hip thing to do".

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I'm muslim and i have to agree that all athiests just don't have the capacity to understand and believe.All muslims, christians and jews are people of the book, believe in the same god and the evidence is too obvious to ignore.if you choose to ignore it it's your decision but you will pay the price one day.God has given you too much to be ignored.how would u feel if ur son ignored u and says u dont exist.you pay the price now, you'll pay it after you die.lets think about intelligent design for a second, if its true that we are just a bunch of cells that come together by intelligent design and we are alove as long as these cells are alive, explain to be what is soul?where does the soul go?after people die their cells are still working for a while, their heart can still be pumping, infact their whole body can still be functional but yet theyr die.why is that?its because the soul goes away.where doe the soul come from?soul can't be explained by science.soul is from god.believe it or not i could care less but i delivered god's message and its up to u to believe it.

Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

The topic of "life after death" raises disreputable connotations of past-life regression and haunted houses, but there are a large number of people in the world who believe in some form of persistence of the individual soul after life ends. Clearly this is an important question, one of the most important ones we can possibly think of in terms of relevance to human life. If science has something to say about, we should all be interested in hearing.

Adam Frank (http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/17/136406757/the-final-word-on-life-after-death) thinks that science has nothing to say about it. He advocates being "firmly agnostic" on the question. (His coblogger Alva Noë (http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/20/136474737/prizefighting-and-the-limits-of-agnosticism) resolutely disagrees.) I have an enormous respect for Adam; he’s a smart guy and a careful thinker. When we disagree (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/26/the-sacred/) it’s with the kind of respectful dialogue that should be a model for disagreeing with non-crazy people. But here he couldn’t be more wrong.

Adam claims that there "simply is no controlled, experimental[ly] verifiable information" regarding life after death. By these standards, there is no controlled, experimentally verifiable information regarding whether the Moon is made of green cheese. Sure, we can take spectra of light reflecting from the Moon, and even send astronauts up there and bring samples back for analysis. But that’s only scratching the surface, as it were. What if the Moon is almost all green cheese, but is covered with a layer of dust a few meters thick? Can you really say that you know this isn’t true? Until you have actually examined every single cubic centimeter of the Moon’s interior, you don’t really have experimentally verifiable information, do you? So maybe agnosticism on the green-cheese issue is warranted. (Come up with all the information we actually do have about the Moon; I promise you I can fit it into the green-cheese hypothesis.)

Obviously this is completely crazy. Our conviction that green cheese makes up a negligible fraction of the Moon’s interior comes not from direct observation, but from the gross incompatibility of that idea with other things we think we know. Given what we do understand about rocks and planets and dairy products and the Solar System, it’s absurd to imagine that the Moon is made of green cheese. We know better.

We also know better for life after death, although people are much more reluctant to admit it. Admittedly, "direct" evidence one way or the other is hard to come by — all we have are a few legends and sketchy claims from unreliable witnesses with near-death experiences, plus a bucketload of wishful thinking. But surely it’s okay to take account of indirect evidence — namely, compatibility of the idea that some form of our individual soul survives death with other things we know about how the world works.

Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/09/29/seriously-the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-really-are-completely-understood/), and there’s no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die. If you claim that some form of soul persists beyond death, what particles is that soul made of? What forces are holding it together? How does it interact with ordinary matter?

Everything we know about quantum field theory (QFT) says that there aren’t any sensible answers to these questions. Of course, everything we know about quantum field theory could be wrong. Also, the Moon could be made of green cheese.

Among advocates for life after death, nobody even tries to sit down and do the hard work of explaining how the basic physics of atoms and electrons would have to be altered in order for this to be true. If we tried, the fundamental absurdity of the task would quickly become evident.

Even if you don’t believe that human beings are "simply" collections of atoms evolving and interacting according to rules laid down in the Standard Model of particle physics, most people would grudgingly admit that atoms are part of who we are. If it’s really nothing but atoms and the known forces, there is clearly no way for the soul to survive death. Believing in life after death, to put it mildly, requires physics beyond the Standard Model. Most importantly, we need some way for that "new physics" to interact with the atoms that we do have.

Very roughly speaking, when most people think about an immaterial soul that persists after death, they have in mind some sort of blob of spirit energy that takes up residence near our brain, and drives around our body like a soccer mom driving an SUV. The questions are these: what form does that spirit energy take, and how does it interact with our ordinary atoms? Not only is new physics required, but dramatically new physics. Within QFT, there can’t be a new collection of "spirit particles" and "spirit forces" that interact with our regular atoms, because we would have detected them in existing experiments. Ockham’s razor is not on your side here, since you have to posit a completely new realm of reality obeying very different rules than the ones we know.

But let’s say you do that. How is the spirit energy supposed to interact with us? Here is the equation that tells us how electrons behave in the everyday world:


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2383/dirac.jpg


Don’t worry about the details; it’s the fact that the equation exists that matters, not its particular form. It’s the Dirac equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_equation) — the two terms on the left are roughly the velocity of the electron and its inertia — coupled to electromagnetism and gravity, the two terms on the right.

As far as every experiment ever done is concerned, this equation is the correct description of how electrons behave at everyday energies. It’s not a complete description; we haven’t included the weak nuclear force, or couplings to hypothetical particles like the Higgs boson. But that’s okay, since those are only important at high energies and/or short distances, very far from the regime of relevance to the human brain.

If you believe in an immaterial soul that interacts with our bodies, you need to believe that this equation is not right, even at everyday energies. There needs to be a new term (at minimum) on the right, representing how the soul interacts with electrons. (If that term doesn’t exist, electrons will just go on their way as if there weren’t any soul at all, and then what’s the point?) So any respectable scientist who took this idea seriously would be asking — what form does that interaction take? Is it local in spacetime? Does the soul respect gauge invariance and Lorentz invariance? Does the soul have a Hamiltonian? Do the interactions preserve unitarity and conservation of information?

Nobody ever asks these questions out loud, possibly because of how silly they sound. Once you start asking them, the choice you are faced with becomes clear: either overthrow everything we think we have learned about modern physics, or distrust the stew of religious accounts/unreliable testimony/wishful thinking that makes people believe in the possibility of life after death. It’s not a difficult decision, as scientific theory-choice goes.

We don’t choose theories in a vacuum. We are allowed — indeed, required — to ask how claims about how the world works fit in with other things we know about how the world works. I’ve been talking here like a particle physicist, but there’s an analogous line of reasoning that would come from evolutionary biology. Presumably amino acids and proteins don’t have souls that persist after death. What about viruses or bacteria? Where upon the chain of evolution from our monocellular ancestors to today did organisms stop being described purely as atoms interacting through gravity and electromagnetism, and develop an immaterial immortal soul?

There’s no reason to be agnostic about ideas that are dramatically incompatible with everything we know about modern science. Once we get over any reluctance to face reality on this issue, we can get down to the much more interesting questions of how human beings and consciousness really work.






Sean Carroll (http://preposterousuniverse.com/) is a physicist and author. He received his Ph.D. from Harvard in 1993, and is now on the faculty at the California Institute of Technology, where his research focuses on fundamental physics and cosmology. Carroll is the author of From Eternity to Here: The Quest for the Ultimate Theory of Time, (http://preposterousuniverse.com/eternitytohere/) and Spacetime and Geometry: An Introduction to General Relativity. (http://preposterousuniverse.com/spacetimeandgeometry/) He has written for Discover, Scientific American, New Scientist, and other publications. His blog Cosmic Variance (http://cosmicvariance.com/) is hosted by Discover magazine, and he has been featured on television shows such as The Colbert Report, National Geographic’s Known Universe, and Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman. His Twitter handle is @seanmcarroll (http://twitter.com/#%21/seanmcarroll)

[jARS mEsH sEt]

this

MOST of the "Jesus=Easter Bunny" cynics have never even read the entire Bible (and therfeore have no business pretending to have an educated opinion on it) and just say the myth/Easter Bunny comments because its the "hip thing to do".

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religion-today/poll-finds-atheists-know-the-most-about-belief-11638885.html

[Dunc n Dave]

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Nyborg) examined whether IQ relates to denomination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination) and income (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income), using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Longitudinal_Surveys), which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_%28journal%29), demonstrated that Atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-Nyborg-3)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.18/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg)
The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-intmag-4)


Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn), emeritus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emeritus) professor of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) at the University of Ulster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Ulster), which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries. [5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence#cite_note-intmag-4) The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than those adhering to a religion.
Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”"


"Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show that about 90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests that there are few modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith than science is."

you're no atheist if you put that much FAITH into statistics spewed out from a biased source. You realize that Nyborg also says women and black people are dumber than white men too, right? Or maybe you missed the part where Nyborg is a known supporter of Neo-Nazi parties? :lol

Why are atheists always trying so hard to PROVE how much smarter they are than everyone? Insecurity issues perhaps?

[Proxy]

I'm muslim and i have to agree that all athiests just don't have the capacity to understand and believe.All muslims, christians and jews are people of the book, believe in the same god and the evidence is too obvious to ignore.if you choose to ignore it it's your decision but you will pay the price one day.God has given you too much to be ignored.how would u feel if ur son ignored u and says u dont exist.you pay the price now, you'll pay it after you die.lets think about intelligent design for a second, if its true that we are just a bunch of cells that come together by intelligent design and we are alove as long as these cells are alive, explain to be what is soul?where does the soul go?after people die their cells are still working for a while, their heart can still be pumping, infact their whole body can still be functional but yet theyr die.why is that?its because the soul goes away.where doe the soul come from?soul can't be explained by science.soul is from god.believe it or not i could care less but i delivered god's message and its up to u to believe it.

First understand that theists came up with the term intelligent design. ID is a joke in the science world.

Second, there's no such thing as a soul. A soul is a hybrid of man's insecurities in admitting his mortality with the functions of the human brain.

So with these two things being said, I've already burned your post to the ground.

Now... the capacity to understand? Understand what? I can read a book... Bible, Quran, Lord of the Rings, and Winnie the Pooh, and I can see the moral implications embedded.

Look in a mirror, dude. Understand what evolution is, and wrap your mind around it. It should amaze you that everything on this planet that lives came from a common ancestor. Do you understand how big the Universe is? I don't, because it's infinite... but if you could understand how insignificant we are to what we know of, then you could get an idea.

Believing... I believe in fact. There are plenty of amazing things that happen around the world and in your regular day that you don't appreciate. Every breath of life you take is something I believe to be incredible.

You're reading the wrong books.

[Dunc n Dave]

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religion-today/poll-finds-atheists-know-the-most-about-belief-11638885.html

I can use google to try to look smart too...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+2%3A14&version=NIV

[Proxy]

you're no atheist if you put that much FAITH into statistics spewed out from a biased source. You realize that Nyborg also says women and black people are dumber than white men too, right? Or maybe you missed the part where Nyborg is a known supporter of Neo-Nazi parties? :lol

Why are atheists always trying so hard to PROVE how much smarter they are than everyone? Insecurity issues perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

[Proxy]

I can use google to try to look smart too...


How about you try and disprove anything I or jARS mEsH sEt has said...

[SinBAD]

loool.this is so funny.you have an equation for soul now?stupid honestly.neurons and nerves can't explain soul and this article still didn't answer my question.why do people die yet their entire body could still be functioning?Read this carefully, the day you die is the day you know the truth.you will live your life in denial but once you die and you are buried, an angel will come to you and ask you, did you believe in god, you will say no and i dont need to talk about the rest.you could look it up.but since you were informed by a lot of people that you were wrong u will have no excuse and only then will u regret it but it'll be too late.we could argue back and forth but the evidence that god is there is overwhelming and i will leave you with this link to see for yourself.
http://scienceislam.com/


did you know that the quran that came out 1500 years ago talks about how an embryo is formed?science stems from the quran.did you kmow the quran exaplins the big bang theory?please educate yourself and since you're into science see how the quran introduced these ideas before man knew what science was.
please read this link

I will become an atheist if you can prove to me that god doesn't exist. i gave u evidence u give me yours



Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

The topic of "life after death" raises disreputable connotations of past-life regression and haunted houses, but there are a large number of people in the world who believe in some form of persistence of the individual soul after life ends. Clearly this is an important question, one of the most important ones we can possibly think of in terms of relevance to human life. If science has something to say about, we should all be interested in hearing.

Adam Frank (http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/17/136406757/the-final-word-on-life-after-death) thinks that science has nothing to say about it. He advocates being "firmly agnostic" on the question. (His coblogger Alva Noë (http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/05/20/136474737/prizefighting-and-the-limits-of-agnosticism) resolutely disagrees.) I have an enormous respect for Adam; he’s a smart guy and a careful thinker. When we disagree (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/01/26/the-sacred/) it’s with the kind of respectful dialogue that should be a model for disagreeing with non-crazy people. But here he couldn’t be more wrong.

Adam claims that there "simply is no controlled, experimental[ly] verifiable information" regarding life after death. By these standards, there is no controlled, experimentally verifiable information regarding whether the Moon is made of green cheese. Sure, we can take spectra of light reflecting from the Moon, and even send astronauts up there and bring samples back for analysis. But that’s only scratching the surface, as it were. What if the Moon is almost all green cheese, but is covered with a layer of dust a few meters thick? Can you really say that you know this isn’t true? Until you have actually examined every single cubic centimeter of the Moon’s interior, you don’t really have experimentally verifiable information, do you? So maybe agnosticism on the green-cheese issue is warranted. (Come up with all the information we actually do have about the Moon; I promise you I can fit it into the green-cheese hypothesis.)

Obviously this is completely crazy. Our conviction that green cheese makes up a negligible fraction of the Moon’s interior comes not from direct observation, but from the gross incompatibility of that idea with other things we think we know. Given what we do understand about rocks and planets and dairy products and the Solar System, it’s absurd to imagine that the Moon is made of green cheese. We know better.

We also know better for life after death, although people are much more reluctant to admit it. Admittedly, "direct" evidence one way or the other is hard to come by — all we have are a few legends and sketchy claims from unreliable witnesses with near-death experiences, plus a bucketload of wishful thinking. But surely it’s okay to take account of indirect evidence — namely, compatibility of the idea that some form of our individual soul survives death with other things we know about how the world works.

Claims that some form of consciousness persists after our bodies die and decay into their constituent atoms face one huge, insuperable obstacle: the laws of physics underlying everyday life are completely understood (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/09/29/seriously-the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-really-are-completely-understood/), and there’s no way within those laws to allow for the information stored in our brains to persist after we die. If you claim that some form of soul persists beyond death, what particles is that soul made of? What forces are holding it together? How does it interact with ordinary matter?

Everything we know about quantum field theory (QFT) says that there aren’t any sensible answers to these questions. Of course, everything we know about quantum field theory could be wrong. Also, the Moon could be made of green cheese.

Among advocates for life after death, nobody even tries to sit down and do the hard work of explaining how the basic physics of atoms and electrons would have to be altered in order for this to be true. If we tried, the fundamental absurdity of the task would quickly become evident.

Even if you don’t believe that human beings are "simply" collections of atoms evolving and interacting according to rules laid down in the Standard Model of particle physics, most people would grudgingly admit that atoms are part of who we are. If it’s really nothing but atoms and the known forces, there is clearly no way for the soul to survive death. Believing in life after death, to put it mildly, requires physics beyond the Standard Model. Most importantly, we need some way for that "new physics" to interact with the atoms that we do have.

Very roughly speaking, when most people think about an immaterial soul that persists after death, they have in mind some sort of blob of spirit energy that takes up residence near our brain, and drives around our body like a soccer mom driving an SUV. The questions are these: what form does that spirit energy take, and how does it interact with our ordinary atoms? Not only is new physics required, but dramatically new physics. Within QFT, there can’t be a new collection of "spirit particles" and "spirit forces" that interact with our regular atoms, because we would have detected them in existing experiments. Ockham’s razor is not on your side here, since you have to posit a completely new realm of reality obeying very different rules than the ones we know.

But let’s say you do that. How is the spirit energy supposed to interact with us? Here is the equation that tells us how electrons behave in the everyday world:


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2383/dirac.jpg


Don’t worry about the details; it’s the fact that the equation exists that matters, not its particular form. It’s the Dirac equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_equation) — the two terms on the left are roughly the velocity of the electron and its inertia — coupled to electromagnetism and gravity, the two terms on the right.

As far as every experiment ever done is concerned, this equation is the correct description of how electrons behave at everyday energies. It’s not a complete description; we haven’t included the weak nuclear force, or couplings to hypothetical particles like the Higgs boson. But that’s okay, since those are only important at high energies and/or short distances, very far from the regime of relevance to the human brain.

If you believe in an immaterial soul that interacts with our bodies, you need to believe that this equation is not right, even at everyday energies. There needs to be a new term (at minimum) on the right, representing how the soul interacts with electrons. (If that term doesn’t exist, electrons will just go on their way as if there weren’t any soul at all, and then what’s the point?) So any respectable scientist who took this idea seriously would be asking — what form does that interaction take? Is it local in spacetime? Does the soul respect gauge invariance and Lorentz invariance? Does the soul have a Hamiltonian? Do the interactions preserve unitarity and conservation of information?

Nobody ever asks these questions out loud, possibly because of how silly they sound. Once you start asking them, the choice you are faced with becomes clear: either overthrow everything we think we have learned about modern physics, or distrust the stew of religious accounts/unreliable testimony/wishful thinking that makes people believe in the possibility of life after death. It’s not a difficult decision, as scientific theory-choice goes.

We don’t choose theories in a vacuum. We are allowed — indeed, required — to ask how claims about how the world works fit in with other things we know about how the world works. I’ve been talking here like a particle physicist, but there’s an analogous line of reasoning that would come from evolutionary biology. Presumably amino acids and proteins don’t have souls that persist after death. What about viruses or bacteria? Where upon the chain of evolution from our monocellular ancestors to today did organisms stop being described purely as atoms interacting through gravity and electromagnetism, and develop an immaterial immortal soul?

There’s no reason to be agnostic about ideas that are dramatically incompatible with everything we know about modern science. Once we get over any reluctance to face reality on this issue, we can get down to the much more interesting questions of how human beings and consciousness really work.






Sean Carroll (http://preposterousuniverse.com/) is a physicist and author. He received his Ph.D. from Harvard in 1993, and is now on the faculty at the California Institute of Technology, where his research focuses on fundamental physics and cosmology. Carroll is the author of From Eternity to Here: The Quest for the Ultimate Theory of Time, (http://preposterousuniverse.com/eternitytohere/) and Spacetime and Geometry: An Introduction to General Relativity. (http://preposterousuniverse.com/spacetimeandgeometry/) He has written for Discover, Scientific American, New Scientist, and other publications. His blog Cosmic Variance (http://cosmicvariance.com/) is hosted by Discover magazine, and he has been featured on television shows such as The Colbert Report, National Geographic’s Known Universe, and Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman. His Twitter handle is @seanmcarroll (http://twitter.com/#%21/seanmcarroll)

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I will become an atheist if you can prove to me that god doesn't exist. i gave u evidence u give me yours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance


I can use google to try to look smart too...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+2%3A14&version=NIV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John.8.1-John.8.11

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Num.15.32-Num.15.36

M6edqRgDYg0

[SinBAD]

http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

Explain to me how the quran 1500 years ago had referenced your science that man just discovered. i dont have any more time to waste on losers.you will die and you will know.i dont care if u believe or not and neither does god.ur only harming urself brotha

with that being said i dont like getting into these discussions because most atheists are blind and dont wanna listen.i said i will become an atheist if u can prove to me that god doesnt exist but u cant.

im here to discuss basketball and not religion because i'm happy with my faith.i have more imp things to do then respond to ignorant people.


First understand that theists came up with the term intelligent design. ID is a joke in the science world.

Second, there's no such thing as a soul. A soul is a hybrid of man's insecurities in admitting his mortality with the functions of the human brain.

So with these two things being said, I've already burned your post to the ground.

Now... the capacity to understand? Understand what? I can read a book... Bible, Quran, Lord of the Rings, and Winnie the Pooh, and I can see the moral implications embedded.

Look in a mirror, dude. Understand what evolution is, and wrap your mind around it. It should amaze you that everything on this planet that lives came from a common ancestor. Do you understand how big the Universe is? I don't, because it's infinite... but if you could understand how insignificant we are to what we know of, then you could get an idea.

Believing... I believe in fact. There are plenty of amazing things that happen around the world and in your regular day that you don't appreciate. Every breath of life you take is something I believe to be incredible.

You're reading the wrong books.

[Proxy]

loool.this is so funny.you have an equation for soul now?stupid honestly.neurons and nerves can't explain soul and this article still didn't answer my question.why do people die yet their entire body could still be functioning?Read this carefully, the day you die is the day you know the truth.you will live your life in denial but once you die and you are buried, an angel will come to you and ask you, did you believe in god, you will say no and i dont need to talk about the rest.you could look it up.but since you were informed by a lot of people that you were wrong u will have no excuse and only then will u regret it but it'll be too late.we could argue back and forth but the evidence that god is there is overwhelming and i will leave you with this link to see for yourself.
http://scienceislam.com/


did you know that the quran that came out 1500 years ago talks about how an embryo is formed?science stems from the quran.did you kmow the quran exaplins the big bang theory?please educate yourself and since you're into science see how the quran introduced these ideas before man knew what science was.
please read this link

I will become an atheist if you can prove to me that god doesn't exist. i gave u evidence u give me yours


Like I said, there's no such thing as a soul. There's a brain. Your body can function with minimal brain function. Read up on the brain stem.

I think you need to take an educational course on the word 'evidence' and what it means. You keep using it incorrectly.

edit: Also stop using a 1500 year old book written by men of the old ages as a backdrop. what is 1500 years compared to the timeline of the universe? Look it up.

[Dunc n Dave]

How about you try and disprove anything I or jARS mEsH sEt has said...

Jars hasn't SAID anything... He just keeps googling and posting links in a futile effort to try to prove that atheists are so much more intelligent than everyone else.

As for you, it's pointless to engage in your circular arguments. Nothing I say will change your mind, nor you change my mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't have time for your "loaded questions." I graduated college 10+ years ago, I don't do POP QUIZZES anymore... find another "unintelligent believer" to take the bait...:toast

[SinBAD]

Last point is that Atheists are that way because they haven't been introduced to islam.say what you want about islam but islam is the only unchanged religion. The bible unfortunately has been changed too much and was written long after jesus so it has many flaws and things that don't make sense which drove people away. Islam answers those concerns just ask yussif estes former priest who converted.


http://miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

Explain to me how the quran 1500 years ago had referenced your science that man just discovered. i dont have any more time to waste on losers.you will die and you will know.i dont care if u believe or not and neither does god.ur only harming urself brotha

with that being said i dont like getting into these discussions because most atheists are blind and dont wanna listen.i said i will become an atheist if u can prove to me that god doesnt exist but u cant.

im here to discuss basketball and not religion because i'm happy with my faith.i have more imp things to do then respond to ignorant people.

[Arcadian]

What we have here is the ultimate cop-out.


I used to think televangelists or Jesus freaks were some of the most annoying people in the world.

But they have easily been surpassed by the intellectual dead enders who claim that belief in God is akin to believing in the Easter Bunny. Your idea of the Bible is just as warped as those who believe it was meant to be interpreted word for word and without symbolism.

Just do everyone a favor and accept you lack the capacity to believe. No harm. You just don't get it. You don't feel it, don't understand it and can't accept it. That goes for professional athletes like Manu (who is my favorite player) and for all the outspoken entertainers like Bill Maher.

Agree to disagree and stop with the cynical, passive-aggressive remarks.

Let's try and make this into a deductive argument.

P1) Your beliefs differ from mine.
C1) You are unable to believe anything.
C2) You do not understand my beliefs.
C3) You are unable to accept my beliefs.

This argument consists of one premise and three conclusions (each of which is a non sequitur fallacy).

It's also a rhetorically ineffective argument to the extent that it victimizes and condescends to the opposition.

[tmtcsc]

I could've agreed that what you said seemed somewhat logical, until the remark that 'intellectuals' lack the capacity to believe. What a load of hypocritical and nonsensical bullshit the second half of your post is.

Easy now, I never said Intellectuals lacked the capacity to believe. I consider myself educated and I'm a believer.

What's laughable to me is that there are people who feel they are smart enough to explain away God's existence through science, history and philosophy. These are the folks who are too smart for their own good.

Christopher Hitchens was one of the most notorious. He was a gifted writer and certainly stuck to his guns as far as his non-belief but he was a lightweight in the field of theology and science.

He tried his hand at debating the existence of God with a real expert and got abused. It's not so fun when you aren't the smartest guy in the room.

[Proxy]

Last point is that Atheists are that way because they haven't been introduced to islam.say what you want about islam but islam is the only unchanged religion. The bible unfortunately has been changed too much and was written long after jesus so it has many flaws and things that don't make sense which drove people away. Islam answers those concerns just ask yussif estes former priest who converted.

You actually follow a religion that's heavily based on the same backdrop as Judaism and Christianity. All your statements are heavily biased and I'm starting to think you're just trolling me.

[Arcadian]

I can use google to try to look smart too...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+2%3A14&version=NIV

You failed to appreciate the content of the link that he provided and responded with one that begs the question of your beliefs and is irrelevant to anyone outside of your belief system.

If you read the link that jARS mEsH sEt provided, you might find it very informative about the topic at hand.

[Proxy]

Easy now, I never said Intellectuals lacked the capacity to believe. I consider myself educated and I'm a believer.

What's laughable to me is that there are people who feel they are smart enough to explain away God's existence through science, history and philosophy. These are the folks who are too smart for their own good.

Christopher Hitchens was one of the most notorious. He was a gifted writer and certainly stuck to his guns as far as his non-belief but he was a lightweight in the field of theology and science.

He tried his hand at debating the existence of God with a real expert and got abused. It's not so fun when you aren't the smartest guy in the room.

I'm more of a Sagan fan. Science only disproves of a deity.

[SinBAD]

i dont troll.its true they are the same religion but judaism was modified by man so god sent christianity which again was modified so he sent islam which remains the same to this day.if you look at my link u'll see how the quran talks about science.if the quran was written by man how did man know about embryos, sperms, atmosphere, light 1500 years ago?look an i am very educated, i have a phd in microbiology.i'm not some idiot off the street.i do science everyday in the lab.the more science i do, the more i believe.science supports religion

You actually follow a religion that's heavily based on the same backdrop as Judaism and Christianity. All your statements are heavily biased and I'm starting to think you're just trolling me.

[mingus]

I think Duncan believes in something. I've seen him point up before. Maybe it had nothing to do with it. I've heard him say that he's been "blessed" in a couple times interviews.

[Proxy]

i dont troll.its true they are the same religion but judaism was modified by man so god sent christianity which again was modified so he sent islam which remains the same to this day.if you look at my link u'll see how the quran talks about science.if the quran was written by man how did man know about embryos, sperms, atmosphere, light 1500 years ago?look an i am very educated, i have a phd in microbiology.i'm not some idiot off the street.i do science everyday in the lab.the more science i do, the more i believe.science supports religion

So the Quran tells of these scientific findings... where does the logic lie in crediting that to an invisible deity instead of man?

If you really have a phd in anything biology related, you should understand the Theory of Evolution.... do you?

[SinBAD]

i dont think you're getting the point.

the Quran 1500 years ago talked about scientific findings that have just been discovered within the past 100 years.If it was written by man how did that man know of all this science 1500 years ago?its clearly from god.

Theory of evolution is very controversial. thats why they dont teach it in graduate school. I support natural selection, i support evolution in the sense that a cell can evolve due to mutations overtime.nothing wrong with that but there is no way that we come from bacteria and primates.plus evolution says there were elements on the earth and with the help of lightening they formed a cell, where did lightening come from?where did these elements come from?evolution can never explain the origin of everything.

QUOTE=Proxy;5650508]So the Quran tells of these scientific findings... where does the logic lie in crediting that to an invisible deity instead of man?

If you really have a phd in anything biology related, you should understand the Theory of Evolution.... do you?[/QUOTE]

[Brutalis]

Lol @ this thread. My god.

My take is, you cannot prove with any facts or evidence anything the bible says to be true.

However....

There are no facts or evidence that it is not true, either.

Which is why I ultimately careless about anything to do with religion.

[tmtcsc]

What we have here is the ultimate cop-out.

Let's try and make this into a deductive argument.

P1) Your beliefs differ from mine.
C1) You are unable to believe anything.
C2) You do not understand my beliefs.
C3) You are unable to accept my beliefs.

This argument consists of one premise and three conclusions (each of which is a non sequitur fallacy).

It's also a rhetorically ineffective argument to the extent that it victimizes and condescends to the opposition.


The ultimate cop-out ? How ? By keeping things in their simplest terms ?

Here's what I believe:

1. The existence of God can be explained through science.
2. The existence of God can be explained through theology.

Some non-believers say that man's existence was dumb luck. That our lives are nothing more than insignificant blips in a vast and infinite universe. Take a moment to think about that.

Most scientists believe the Universe is infinite. Assuming that is true, what are the statistical chances that only one planet in this vast universe would be capable of sustaining life as we know it ? What's easier to believe ?

1. That our existence is due to one deity that decided to bring forth life

OR

2. That somehow all of the millions upon millions of factors that had to have happened for your mom and dad to have created you...just happened.

Man has thus far been unsuccessful at finding life on other planets. It's 2012 and we have the most powerful cameras and satellites, the smartest scientists in the history of the world and to this day, have not been able to find life on other planets. Forget the Universe, lets narrow it down to our own Galaxy. -- Nothing. Zip.

You believe in the Big Bang theory ? Cool, who or what caused it ?

[Dunc n Dave]

You failed to appreciate the content of the link that he provided and responded with one that begs the question of your beliefs and is irrelevant to anyone outside of your belief system.

If you read the link that jARS mEsH sEt provided, you might find it very informative about the topic at hand.

I Read the link... And it's a sweeping generalization to think that all atheists know more about the Bible than Christians based on a survey of a few hundred people (many who claim to be Christian but probably only go to church/open their Bibles on Christmas and Easter), especially one that includes questions about preachers during the 2nd Great Awakening, which is not in the Bible, and is more of a history question that a Bible or belief question. Why not throw in some questions about the Great Crusades while you're at it? That's always a popular topic for atheists...

I could easily pull some idiots off the street that say they are atheists but have very little knowledge of the Bible, pit them against some "Christian" scholars and show you more biased statistics that show the opposite of what this study shows. Anyone who uses statistics to back up their arguments FOR or AGAINST religion is wasting their time. Stats/surveys can and will always be manipulated to make them appear to support one's own side of an argument.

[Brutalis]

The ultimate cop-out ? How ? By keeping things in their simplest terms ?

Here's what I believe:

1. The existence of God can be explained through science.
2. The existence of God can be explained through theology.

Some non-believers say that man's existence was dumb luck. That our lives are nothing more than insignificant blips in a vast and infinite universe. Take a moment to think about that.

Most scientists believe the Universe is infinite. Assuming that is true, what are the statistical chances that only one planet in this vast universe would be capable of sustaining life as we know it ? What's easier to believe ?

1. That our existence is due to one deity that decided to bring forth life

OR

2. That somehow all of the millions upon millions of factors that had to have happened for your mom and dad to have created you...just happened.

Man has thus far been unsuccessful at finding life on other planets. It's 2012 and we have the most powerful cameras and satellites, the smartest scientists in the history of the world and to this day, have not been able to find life on other planets. Forget the Universe, lets narrow it down to our own Galaxy. -- Nothing. Zip.

You believe in the Big Bang theory ? Cool, who or what caused it ?

Not sure of your point. All I know is for one to think we are the only life out of billions of galaxies would be ignorant.

And, 100 years ago we started driving cars. 100 years... and now we're supposed to have technology that can find other life out there? Lmao. Maybe in a 1000 years if we're lucky.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

The ultimate cop-out ? How ? By keeping things in their simplest terms ?

Here's what I believe:

1. The existence of God can be explained through science.
2. The existence of God can be explained through theology.

Some non-believers say that man's existence was dumb luck. That our lives are nothing more than insignificant blips in a vast and infinite universe. Take a moment to think about that.

Most scientists believe the Universe is infinite. Assuming that is true, what are the statistical chances that only one planet in this vast universe would be capable of sustaining life as we know it ? What's easier to believe ?

1. That our existence is due to one deity that decided to bring forth life

OR

2. That somehow all of the millions upon millions of factors that had to have happened for your mom and dad to have created you...just happened.

Man has thus far been unsuccessful at finding life on other planets. It's 2012 and we have the most powerful cameras and satellites, the smartest scientists in the history of the world and to this day, have not been able to find life on other planets. Forget the Universe, lets narrow it down to our own Galaxy. -- Nothing. Zip.

You believe in the Big Bang theory ? Cool, who or what caused it ?

Who or what caused God - the infinitely complex being capable of creating universes? Right, you (the Bible) defines God to be sufficiently magical that this isn't an issue for you, right? This is a classic example of special pleading.

You've provided nothing but logical fallacies.

Argument from incredulity

Arguments from incredulity take the form:


P is too incredible (or: I cannot imagine how P could possibly be true); therefore P must be false.
It is obvious that P is true (or: I cannot imagine how P could possibly be false); therefore P must be true.


These arguments are similar to arguments from ignorance in that they too ignore and do not properly eliminate the possibility that something can be both incredible and still be true, or appear to be obvious and yet still be false.

"I can't imagine how the universe could possibly have come into existence without the intervention of an infinitely complex intelligent being, therefore the universe did not come into existence naturally (God did it)"

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I Read the link... And it's a sweeping generalization to think that all atheists know more about the Bible than Christians based on a survey of a few hundred people (many who claim to be Christian but probably only go to church/open their Bibles on Christmas and Easter), especially one that includes questions about preachers during the 2nd Great Awakening, which is not in the Bible, and is more of a history question that a Bible or belief question. Why not throw in some questions about the Great Crusades while you're at it? That's always a popular topic for atheists...

I could easily pull some idiots off the street that say they are atheists but have very little knowledge of the Bible, pit them against some "Christian" scholars and show you more biased statistics that show the opposite of what this study shows. Anyone who uses statistics to back up their arguments FOR or AGAINST religion is wasting their time. Stats/surveys can and will always be manipulated to make them appear to support one's own side of an argument.

Says the person who literally responded with a Bible quote as an example of using google to "look smart."

Here's a verse from the Q'uran (4:171-172)

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding From Him: so believe In Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above Having a son. To Him (Allah) Belong all things in the heavens And on earth. And enough Is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. Christ disdaineth no To serve and worship Allah, Nor do the angels, those Nearest (to Allah): Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all Together unto Himself (Jesus) to (answer).

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Oh, by the way tmtcsc, do you know what the correct, current scientific understanding is to the question "What caused the big bang?"

It's "I don't know, and I don't know if the question is even valid to begin with."

[Dunc n Dave]

Says the person who literally responded with a Bible quote as an example of using google to "look smart."

Here's a verse from the Q'uran (4:171-172)

"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding From Him: so believe In Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above Having a son. To Him (Allah) Belong all things in the heavens And on earth. And enough Is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. Christ disdaineth no To serve and worship Allah, Nor do the angels, those Nearest (to Allah): Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all Together unto Himself (Jesus) to (answer).

Maybe you missed the part where I was mocking you for just posting links, with nothing to add yourself on the topic? I demonstrated that anyone could post links that support their side. The Bible verse I linked to is not a survey, nor a statistic.

You can't make a sweeping generalization like "atheists are more intelligent because they are atheists" and then expect everyone to buy your lie simply because you back it up with stats from a study performed by a Neo-Nazi who believes white men are superior to women and blacks. Anyone can google "Athiests intelligence" find the same link and pretend to be smart by posting that crap.

Problem is, you didn't first check the background/credibilty of the guy you propped up, so it pretty much blew up in your face when I shot his credibility to hell.:toast

[tmtcsc]

Not sure of your point. All I know is for one to think we are the only life out of billions of galaxies would be ignorant.

And, 100 years ago we started driving cars. 100 years... and now we're supposed to have technology that can find other life out there? Lmao. Maybe in a 1000 years if we're lucky.

Oh I see. You are taking it on faith that there is life on other planets. Do you have absolutely any reason to believe there is life on other planets ? One scientific ounce of proof or thought on the subject ? Tell me why I'm ignorant to believe that its entirely possible that we are it ?

Yeah, I'm LMAO too.

[Dunc n Dave]

I fully expect Jars to comeback with a shot at the credibililty of the Bible as a source. SO I'll save him the trouble here and post about it 1st.

Don't believe what you don't want to believe, I know I can't change your mind and I'm not trying to. Next time, just try to check your "facts" before you try to present them as "facts". Peace out!

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I fully expect Jars to comeback with a shot at the credibililty of the Bible as a source. SO I'll save him the trouble here and post about it 1st.

Don't believe what you don't want to believe, I know I can't change your mind and I'm not trying to. Next time, just try to check your "facts" before you try to present them as "facts". Peace out!

Do you think I'm going to hell?

[tmtcsc]

Who or what caused God - the infinitely complex being capable of creating universes? Right, you (the Bible) defines God to be sufficiently magical that this isn't an issue for you, right? This is a classic example of special pleading.

You've provided nothing but logical fallacies.

Argument from incredulity

Arguments from incredulity take the form:


P is too incredible (or: I cannot imagine how P could possibly be true); therefore P must be false.
It is obvious that P is true (or: I cannot imagine how P could possibly be false); therefore P must be true.


These arguments are similar to arguments from ignorance in that they too ignore and do not properly eliminate the possibility that something can be both incredible and still be true, or appear to be obvious and yet still be false.

"I can't imagine how the universe could possibly have come into existence without the intervention of an infinitely complex intelligent being, therefore the universe did not come into existence naturally (God did it)"

You're adding nothing to this debate by explaining my answers from a logic standpoint. Seriously, what the fuck good is that ? Any answer I give you can be categorized in to a logical formula. What's the logical formula for truth ? Do you have one ?

My scientific reasoning for the existence of God lies in the Cosmological Argument:

1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;

2.The universe has a beginning of its existence;

Therefore:

3.The universe has a cause of its existence.

4. Since no scientific explanation (in terms of physical laws) can provide a causal account of the origin of the universe, the cause must be personal (explanation is given in terms of a personal agent) - God.

[mathbzh]

You're adding nothing to this debate by explaining my answers from a logic standpoint. Seriously, what the fuck good is that ? Any answer I give you can be categorized in to a logical formula. What's the logical formula for truth ? Do you have one ?

My scientific reasoning for the existence of God lies in the Cosmological Argument:

1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;

2.The universe has a beginning of its existence;

Therefore:

3.The universe has a cause of its existence.

4. Since no scientific explanation (in terms of physical laws) can provide a causal account of the origin of the universe, the cause must be personal (explanation is given in terms of a personal agent) - God.

And the cause for God existence is?

Seriously, philosophers have been discussing god existence for centuries...
If there is a logical answer, we would know it by now.
I am not sure were you are going (believers and atheist) with this debate.

By the way, I don't see how this is Spurs related (not the question about Tim, the great debate).

[jARS mEsH sEt]

You're adding nothing to this debate by explaining my answers from a logic standpoint. Seriously, what the fuck good is that ? Any answer I give you can be categorized in to a logical formula. What's the logical formula for truth ? Do you have one ?

My scientific reasoning for the existence of God lies in the Cosmological Argument:

1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;

2.The universe has a beginning of its existence;

Therefore:

3.The universe has a cause of its existence.

4. Since no scientific explanation (in terms of physical laws) can provide a causal account of the origin of the universe, the cause must be personal (explanation is given in terms of a personal agent) - God.

You've got to be kidding me. The Kalam cosmological argument? Really?.

Actually, this is funny, because the version you posted isn't even the true Kalam cosmological argument. The actual argument goes as follows -

1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;

2.The universe has a beginning of its existence;

Therefore:

3.The universe has a cause of its existence.

Point #1: "4" does not follow from 1 through 3. Even if the reasoning of this argument was logically sound, the only conclusion you come to is "the universe has a cause." That's it.

Point #2: The Kalam cosmological argument isn't a scientific argument, it's a philosophical argument.

Seriously, you must be trolling to throw this at me. I don't for a minute believe that you are actually this stupid, thinking that an age old, long debunked logically flawed philosophical argument constitutes "scientific" reasoning.

Please, please watch this video

4u6Mz21jTaA

[tmtcsc]

And the cause for God existence is?


God has always been and did not have a beginning to require a cause.

Sounds good right ? This logic BS is just that and plays in to the hands of those who want to apply formulas to God. Getting caught up in the philosophy or science of God's existence is a waste of time.

I don't need equations or logic to FEEL that God exists. I don't need to argue the existence of a soul. You either believe and have faith or you don't.

Hey !!!! Spurs win, Spurs win, Spurs win ! (Insert Will Ferrel's imitation of Harry Carrey here. On that note, I'm going to bed.

[Proxy]

God has always been and did not have a beginning to require a cause.

Sounds good right ? This logic BS is just that and plays in to the hands of those who want to apply formulas to God. Getting caught up in the philosophy or science of God's existence is a waste of time.

I don't need equations or logic to FEEL that God exists. I don't need to argue the existence of a soul. You either believe and have faith or you don't.



You're programed to believe in superstition and why add a step. Universe to life... why Universe to god to life. Ain't logical.

[doldrums]

Like I said, there's no such thing as a soul. There's a brain. Your body can function with minimal brain function. Read up on the brain stem.

I think you need to take an educational course on the word 'evidence' and what it means. You keep using it incorrectly.

edit: Also stop using a 1500 year old book written by men of the old ages as a backdrop. what is 1500 years compared to the timeline of the universe? Look it up.

Agreed 100%. Ever notice that when a person develops alzheimers, they become a different person, sometimes completely. That's because the brain is altered. Sorry folks, there is no soul.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Agreed 100%. Ever notice that when a person develops alzheimers, they become a different person, sometimes completely. That's because the brain is altered. Sorry folks, there is no soul.

True, but there are better examples.

PFJPtVRlI64

Probably the most famous case has to do with that of Phineas Gage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Sam Harris sums it up pretty well:
NQLypwgqefc

[Em-City]

:lol did somebody just prove that god exists?!?

[tmtcsc]

You're programed to believe in superstition and why add a step. Universe to life... why Universe to god to life. Ain't logical.

Programmed to believe in superstition ? Please. I'm not some child that will bow to psycho-babble nonsense mixed with philosophical and logical explanations.

I believe in God and while I was raised and educated in the Christian doctrine, it was not tattooed on me for life at young age. I had every opportunity to accept or reject what I was being taught. I chose to accept.

You on the other hand, need formulas and science to explain feelings. The idea that there is no existence of a soul because the brain is the epicenter of the body doesn't fly either. How ridiculous is that ?

When someone tells you "I love you", do you respond with "Oh, you're just saying that because your brain processed that message to deliver to me." ?

Do you love someone because of their brain or because of the personality developed from the brain ? You people are attempting to think way too deep in to this.

[Proxy]

Programmed to believe in superstition ? Please. I'm not some child that will bow to psycho-babble nonsense mixed with philosophical and logical explanations.

I believe in God and while I was raised and educated in the Christian doctrine, it was not tattooed on me for life at young age. I had every opportunity to accept or reject what I was being taught. I chose to accept.

You on the other hand, need formulas and science to explain feelings. The idea that there is no existence of a soul because the brain is the epicenter of the body doesn't fly either. How ridiculous is that ?

When someone tells you "I love you", do you respond with "Oh, you're just saying that because your brain processed that message to deliver to me." ?

Do you love someone because of their brain or because of the personality developed from the brain ? You people are attempting to think way too deep in to this.

Everything on this planet that lives is from a common ancestor. A theory of how life came to this planet is that it arrived via astroid, which I buy into.

Through this planet's existence, evolution took place and we evolved through an incredible line of life. People who can't accept that we are an advanced breed of monkey are scared or morons. I say that because our ancestry stems way beyond that. Before primates existed, our line was shared with reptiles, plants, organisms...etc. Our purpose? Our purpose is to fuck and have a baby. Reproduction. Same goes for animals, trees, viruses, and single celled organisms. Life's purpose is to multiply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descent

Now the reason I said that was to make the point that everything you feel is for reason of survival. All emotions can be grouped into forms of being happy or sad, and you developed the ability to feel them by evolutionary process.

http://img.pr0gramm.com/2012/01/1327846349160.gif

Now, you assume that's where my thought process stops, and that I live a sad life where nothing means anything... well, you're wrong to think that. The awesome advantage that you and I have is the gift of self awareness. I have the ability to choose my destiny, and that is an incredible gift. I'm not a tree that has no perception that it lives, and I'm not a mosquito that dies within days... I'm a human being that can perceive my surrounding existence and feel happiness, sadness, anger, confusion, hope, depression, and love. Just because I understand why I love someone, doesn't make it any less amazing.

I don't believe in a soul, because I know humans aren't immortal. I understand that religion is mankind's way of admitting they're scared of death. Some would argue that dogma has allowed man to grow with morals, and I don't disagree with that, but it's time to leave the fairy tales behind. Way too much hate, abuse, and death coming in the form of dogma these days. If mankind is to take advantage of the gift they've been given, religion keeps us back from realizing the true potential.

To retort to your post directly... Formulas are behind everything, from our emotions, to mathematical patterns and constants, to physics and the structure of our body and universe. To say I need formulas to understand things and use it in negative connotation is like me ridiculing you for needing oxygen to breathe.

When my SO tells me she loves me, I reply to her that I love her too, and I mean it with 100% sincerity. Like I said, understanding the formula to my emotions doesn't cheapen it. If anything, understanding why I feel a certain way is a huge advantage. I can lessen the amount of time I feel sad, and make the most of my ability to feel happiness.

[Sean Cagney]

SMH at the argument between athiests or belivers now like they have been dead before and know 100%! This argument always makes me laugh because everyone is right! They know it all. The truth might lie somewhere in the middle, I leave it there (Not whate either believes but an unknown).

[manufan10]

Do you think I'm going to hell?

That's for God to decide, tbh.

[Aiko9245]

I'm planning a trip to the islands and found this old gem: Tim in St. Croix talking about his childhood. When his hometown pool was destroyed by Hugo, he turned to basketball.

He speaks of God at the 5:40 mark - blessings and having a plan for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5asWoVDwfAE&feature=related

Part two if you haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH3C4lv2WmY&feature=related

We are lucky fans.

[Agloco]

Since no scientific explanation (in terms of physical laws) can provide a causal account of the origin of the universe, the cause must be personal (explanation is given in terms of a personal agent) - God.

<facepalm>

Man can't provide a rational explanation, thus he shall concoct an irrational one.

Because........everything must have an explanation!!!!! :lol

sigh.

[Juggity]

Man can't provide a rational explanation, thus he shall concoct an irrational one.


:tu

[DrSteffo]

If the universe (or megauniverse) is infinate there should be a huge amount of alien basketball teams out there, even some with Easter bunnies in them! In such a universe everything you can imagine and things you can't even imagine will happen all the time. But I think it's ok to just believe in the Spurs because we will never see the other great teams of the universe.