Trade Ginobili for the right piece to the puzzle

[50 cent]

I know this isn't going to go over well with the Church of Manu, but I think we saw a glimpse into his future this postseason. Sure, he was banged up and only a shell of himself, but he relies so much on his athleticism. He is going to start losing that in the next couple of years and I think the Spurs need to start exploring the option of trading him while he still has some value.

Obviously, we would have to get the right fit in here to make any kind of move for a player like Manu and it couldn't be a prospect. I think a lot of teams would be interested in having him as a leader and helping them get over the hump.

Here are a few ideas:

Andre Iguodala - He would be awesome. He is 24 years old, plays great defense and has an all-around great game and will continue to improve.

Jason Richardson - 27 years old, great offensive game and would fit nicely as the 3rd piece. Also, Larry Brown loves vets and would love to have Ginobili.

Brandon Roy - 24, doubtful Portland would bite with their young base team, but maybe they want a leader like Manu.


Regardless, I think it's time to look at options. His game is going to decline in the next few years and he will become another version of Brent Barry once it happens.

[Tyler_Durden]

Trading Ginobili is just crazy talk.

Guy was hurt, he couldn't put any weight on his ankle, he had no balance or explosiveness because of it.

I don't agree.

[EJK5032]

I am sorry, but the thought of trading Ginobili is just plain stupid.

keep in mind, that not only was he hurt, but he also had Kobe guarding him most of the series, and whether you want to admit it or not, Kobe is an outstanding defensive player.

Now on the other end of the spectrum........your signature images are brilliant !

[50 cent]

Trading Ginobili is just crazy talk.

Guy was hurt, he couldn't put any weight on his ankle, he had no balance or explosiveness because of it.

I don't agree.

It's not crazy talk. You guys need to try look at this objectively. Was Manu hurt? Of course he was, but this is just a perfect glimpse of what he will be in about 2-3 years when he loses a step.

Manu has taken a beating because of his style of play (which is awesome), but it puts more wear on players like him than a fundamental guy like Duncan.

Parker is still very young and improving so trading him is out of the question.

If we want to compete with LA, New Orleans, and Portland for the next 3 years while Duncan is still in his prime, we need more athleticism and I just don't think a 33 year old beat up Ginobili is the answer.

I love Ginobili and everything he has done for the franchise, but I want to squeeze 1 or 2 more Championships out of Duncan's career and the only way we are going to do that is by making a move to keep up with the Joneses. The only logical option for doing so is moving Manu for the right player.

[ElNono]

It's not crazy talk. You guys need to try look at this objectively. Was Manu hurt? Of course he was, but this is just a perfect glimpse of what he will be in about 2-3 years when he loses a step.

Manu has taken a beating because of his style of play (which is awesome), but it puts more wear on players like him than a fundamental guy like Duncan.

Parker is still very young and improving so trading him is out of the question.

If we want to compete with LA, New Orleans, and Portland for the next 3 years while Duncan is still in his prime, we need more athleticism and I just don't think a 33 year old beat up Ginobili is the answer.

I love Ginobili and everything he has done for the franchise, but I want to squeeze 1 or 2 more Championships out of Duncan's career and the only way we are going to do that is by making a move to keep up with the Joneses. The only logical option for doing so is moving Manu for the right player.

Actually, no. Not gonna happen. NEXT!

[timvp]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

[Tyler_Durden]

I see what you're saying, but the Spurs are not going to deal Ginobili. I see him getting more rest durng the season to insure he isnt hurt and/or fatigued in the playoffs.
He simply is too valuable to the core of the team and has been a MAJOR contributor in 2, if not 3 championship runs. He still has a lot left in his tank.

[DaDakota]

Manu for Tmac....

:D

DD

[WCFBaby]

I know this isn't going to go over well with the Church of Manu, but I think we saw a glimpse into his future this postseason. Sure, he was banged up and only a shell of himself, but he relies so much on his athleticism. He is going to start losing that in the next couple of years and I think the Spurs need to start exploring the option of trading him while he still has some value.

Obviously, we would have to get the right fit in here to make any kind of move for a player like Manu and it couldn't be a prospect. I think a lot of teams would be interested in having him as a leader and helping them get over the hump.

Here are a few ideas:

Andre Iguodala - He would be awesome. He is 24 years old, plays great defense and has an all-around great game and will continue to improve.

Jason Richardson - 27 years old, great offensive game and would fit nicely as the 3rd piece. Also, Larry Brown loves vets and would love to have Ginobili.

Brandon Roy - 24, doubtful Portland would bite with their young base team, but maybe they want a leader like Manu.


Regardless, I think it's time to look at options. His game is going to decline in the next few years and he will become another version of Brent Barry once it happens.

LMAO!!! Keep dreaming!! GiNOSEbili has been EXPOSED!

[ElNono]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

If we're even thinking of doing that, we need a 50x better bench than what we currently have. Fact is, the West is loaded right now. Nobody knew the seeds until the last few days of the season. You can't coast anymore. That's the whole reason Pop couldn't rest any of the big 3 much anymore. Next season you need to add Portland to the mix too.
You know, we can't have the luxury of not having our top scorer out there for long stretches anymore. So either Manu learns how to pace himself better, or we basically get another two all-stars to cover for the other 3 that need the rest.

[BacktoBasics]

I would rather have Manu over Richardson.

No way either team moves Andre or Brandon for Manu.

To move Manu you'd have to take a loss and at this point I see no reason to take a loss. He's far from being done. He's only 30 and coming off his most productive season ever. I think you get 3 more good years out of him before the decline sets in.

[50 cent]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

But can the Spurs afford to only play him 20 minutes a game during the regular season? I think they need a bigger contributer than that. As we saw this postseason, home court advantage is no joke anymore. No longer can you coast through the regular season with no care if you are a #1 or #5 seed. We were lucky to scrape by New Orleans and it's not going to get any easier.

I know Manu is beloved by the Hispanic community and I think there is probably little chance that he will be traded, but I think if any of those 3 teams above would listen, we have to consider it.

I know his performance this Playoffs was based on his fatigue and injuries, but I just think this should set off a light bulb to the fans and the front office that this is what Manu's game is going to look like in a couple of years when, because of his style of play, from playing 100+ NBA games per season plus the Olympics takes a permanent toll on his body.

It would be entirely different if he were 27 or 28.

[Mr. Body]

Iguodala and Roy are far better players and worth more than Manu is right now.

[Carnac]

Andre Iguodala - He would be awesome. He is 24 years old, plays great defense and has an all-around great game and will continue to improve.
The kid is a young stud. No way they trade for an aging Manu, who has a history of injuries and breaking down.


Jason Richardson - 27 years old, great offensive game and would fit nicely as the 3rd piece. Also, Larry Brown loves vets and would love to have Ginobili.
No way. JRich is a nice player, but his head is not always screwed on straight.


Brandon Roy - 24, doubtful Portland would bite with their young base team, but maybe they want a leader like Manu.

Huh? Why would Portland want to trade a very young stud player for an older stud who is beginning to break down?

Regardless....
Trading Manu is not in the Spurs best interests. You could not get equal value for him. His age and injuries are going to hurt his value. So you'd be downgrading if you were to trade Manu.
Not an option.

[Spurs16212]

What are the chances of the Spurs getting the #2 pick in the draft? Sources are saying that Miami is looking into shopping the pick....

[T Park]

You don't trade the heart and soul of your team.

You trade Ginobili, you flush any chances of winning a ring.

[The Truth #6]

Iguodala and Roy are far better players and worth more than Manu is right now.

Far better players?

At their best, Manu still has an edge over both of them. I saw Iguodala in the playoffs. He doesn't know how to win. Several times in the clutch he drove right into a herd of defenders and screwed up the play. He's athletic but a dumb player. I don't think he will win us games in the playoffs. He's a third banana on a bad team trying to be their leader.

Roy is better rounded and will be a good player but hasn't even been in the playoffs. Ginobili is one of the best clutch players in the league. Yes, his health is a concern but when he's on he's in a different league then all but about 10 players in the league. He's a weapon that we should utilize, not wear down into dust, which is what happened this year when he valiantly played hard and kept the team going when Tony was injured.

Ginobili is probably going to play in the Olympics and come into camp even more beat. We do need to severely adjust his minutes as timvp suggested. But trading Manu would take months for the team to recover from. Many fans would never come back. I can't see Pop ever going for that trade. It would have to be a steal for us, and those two players are not steals.

[mVp]

You don't trade the heart and soul of your team.

You trade Ginobili, you flush any chances of winning a ring.

+1

Lame thread.

[kobyz]

enough with this crap, duncan, ginobili and parker are not going anywhere, we live and die with tham.

[roycrikside]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

Those measures are way too drastic and neither he nor the coaching staff would ever go that far. I think 28 mins and 60 games is more realistic. I think Manu's biggest problem was that he suffered that groin injury in April, right before the playoffs, came back right before they started, and overcompensated for the groin and hurt the ankle. In past seasons the Spurs had such a cushion that they gradually slowed down the minutes for the big three in the last month or sat them some games altogether. This year with the standings being what they were and the conference so competitive, everyone had to play harder and couldn't take games off.

For Manu (as well as Tim and Tony) to take most of April off and get fresh for the playoffs, the cast around them will have to be much better for the first 75 RS games next year.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Is Spurs under the NBA salary caps or are they still bother by this?

[rascal]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

Unbelievable. You have to baby the guy by playing him only 20 min a game and only 40 games. You do that and the spurs don't make the playoffs.

If thats the case then trade him for a younger player who can play the entire season and the playoffs.

[rascal]

What are the chances of the Spurs getting the #2 pick in the draft? Sources are saying that Miami is looking into shopping the pick....

None

[kaji157]

You don´t trade a player after his best season just because he "might" decline.

TD has 2-3 (and maybe 4) more years in him and Manu does have 2-3 (maybe 4), you can have brandon roy all you want but that would be idiotic because once duncan is gone say bye bye to any championship hopes for a while.

Also Manu was injured because A. He had to carry the team to make the PO (yes if Manu doesn´t go all out during that spurt during the regular season we are out of the playoff picture) and B. Pop choose to rest TD and then TP altogether while Manu, also needing rest, was the one who took the burden.

This is not to blame pop, he could have bet to rest Manu and try get the 8th seed (i have no doubt that we can beat the Lakers when healthy and even more in the first round of PO) but if this move failed then Pop was going to be really blamed.

On a side note i think if you trade Manu for Roy and the blazers get an average PG, you are boosting the Blazers into borderline contenders because Manu will be better than Roy next year and he will make that team grow faster.

[mrspurs]

i wouldnt say any of the players said in this thread are better or worse then manu....i do know this.....it would take sometime and some getting yelled at by pop before they would be ready to play team ball.......go spurs go

[ducks]

You don't trade the heart and soul of your team.

You trade Ginobili, you flush any chances of winning a ring.

depends who you get
spurs still have duncan
I do not want to trade him though

it is like saying spurs would never win another title without david robinson

[Bob Lanier]

Iguodala is a dime-a-dozen dunker whose defense is outlandishly overrated. Roy is Portland's franchise player and they'd laugh at San Antonio if anything short of Tim Duncan were offered.

J-Rich is really interesting. I don't know if it would make the Spurs a lot better or a lot worse, but it's interesting. But a starting lineup that averages 65% from the free throw line at ALL FIVE POSITIONS can't be healthy.

[ducks]

spurs do not have new york payroll
manu makes alot close to 10 million
if he can only play 40 games and less then half the minutes in them
spurs have to trade him
if he can play 25-30 minutes and miss 10 games and be ok for playoffs you keep him

[rascal]

Agree with 50 cent.

Few in here want to trade anyone. They get married to the players but if a good offer is available Manu would be the best player to trade since he has some value and is more likely to decline faster than Duncan or Parker.

[ducks]

if spurs trade any one the big three
you trade manu


if melo was a better player
I might even offer manu for him

[rascal]

depends who you get
spurs still have duncan
I do not want to trade him though

it is like saying spurs would never win another title without david robinson

Exactly. T Park just looks at what the spurs will lose . Not even considering what the spurs may gain.

[ElNono]

Agree with 50 cent.

Few in here want to trade anyone. They get married to the players but if a good offer is available Manu would be the best player to trade since he has some value and is more likely to decline faster than Duncan or Parker.

Why wouldn't you get married to 3 players that gave you 3 championships in 6 years, and took you to the WCF this last year?
Plus you cannot get equal value in return, period.

[oligarchy]

If Manu could fetch you fair value, it would be great. It's not happening though. Manu playing this Summer defnitely isn't going to help things either. Catch 22.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL

What a stupid fucking thread.

Y'all have a very short memory of what a healthy Manu brings to the table.

You don't buy high and sell low and a poor finals series on a bad ankle didn't exactly help Manu's value.

Yeah, Spurs need some youth. They know it. They knew three years ago that was a question and their contracts are staged to reload this summer and next summer.

Spurs can still be competitive with the big three and a newer and younger set of role players.

You know why? Spurs have a system that works. if they get the new players to buy into the defensive mindset they can be successful in our system. The players that the Spurs pick up will probably make you scratch your head and go HUH?, but the fact is, with our big three role players a lot of the new guys will get open looks at the basket they only dreamed about on their previous teams. Lock down defense, good unselfish ball rotation in the half court...you will be surprised how no-name role players can flourish in that kind of system even if they can't create their own shot off the dribble...

[50 cent]

You don´t trade a player after his best season just because he "might" decline.



There is no "might" about it. Ginobili IS going to start declining and probably very soon based on his style of play. It's not like there is a chance he might be great for the next 10 years.

[SPARKY]

LOL

What a stupid fucking thread.

Y'all have a very short memory of what a healthy Manu brings to the table.

You don't buy high and sell low and a poor finals series on a bad ankle didn't exactly help Manu's value.

Yeah, Spurs need some youth. They know it. They knew three years ago that was a question and their contracts are staged to reload this summer and next summer.

Spurs can still be competitive with the big three and a newer and younger set of role players.

You know why? Spurs have a system that works. if they get the new players to buy into the defensive mindset they can be successful in our system. The players that the Spurs pick up will probably make you scratch your head and go HUH?, but the fact is, with our big three role players a lot of the new guys will get open looks at the basket they only dreamed about on their previous teams. Lock down defense, good unselfish ball rotation in the half court...you will be surprised how no-name role players can flourish in that kind of system even if they can't create their own shot off the dribble...

:tu

Indeed.

[CosmicCowboy]

BTW, Spurs struggled in these playoffs and ultimately lost because:

1) They got out rebounded and out hustled to loose balls

and

2) They missed wide open shots

was it age and fatigue?

probably...

On #1 a young no-name that buys into our system can bring that hustle better than an aging vet with creaky knees.

On #2 he will get open looks. Will he knock them down? Hey...thats why we watch...

[Radiosparks]

Oh geez! The guy wasn't 100% and you want to ship him off. Ridiculous!

[ElNono]

There is no "might" about it. Ginobili IS going to start declining and probably very soon based on his style of play. It's not like there is a chance he might be great for the next 10 years.

Because all the indicators are there, right? Like he had his best season in the NBA yet. Sure, he will decline sooner or later, but right now there's no indication that the guy that took us to the playoffs in the first place is on the decline.

[kaji157]

There is no "might" about it. Ginobili IS going to start declining and probably very soon based on his style of play. It's not like there is a chance he might be great for the next 10 years.

Go read ESPN´s Hollinger then, Manu is developing a very reliable 3pt shoot that will keep him valuable until his contract expires to say the least.
He has also improved his midrange J and will likely continue to improve it.
His penetration will decline, but if he completes the transition into a JS the lanes may be more open to him balancing his drop in speed.

Of course you can continue with your opinion but what i said are just facts.

The Spurs only need TP to step up in the RS a lil bit more so that Manu don´t need to carry the team all by himself, this is also necessary for Tony if he is interested on becoming the cornerstone for the post Duncan era.

[completely deck]

No. Won't/can't happen.

[Allanon]

I hate seeing any player traded off the Lakers so I get your loyalty but I think you have to trade Manu for the betterment of the team.

Manu has high value so you can get 2 good players for 1 very good player. Spurs can pick up a scoring small forward and shooting guard at the same time.

You say that Manu's great and that he's the heart of this team. But then again, you have to wonder why he's the sixth man instead of a starter. It comes down to his being fragile, that's the knock on him.

You have an old team and you are spending $10 million on a guy who can't play more than 30 minutes a game. That is and will be the Spurs weakness, star players who can't play big minutes.

Manu averaged only 31 minutes this year and ran out of gas in the Playoffs. Pop will probably have to reduce him down to 25 minutes to make sure he's rested. Hell, Timmy will have to play more minutes because Manu needs more rest.

Manu is shortening the careers of either Timmy or Tony because he needs rest and you gotta play Timmy or Tony more. Tony and Timmy already play 34 minutes a game, how much more will they have to play to give Manu even more rest next year?

25 minutes per game for your $10 million 3rd star player while forcing your Superstar to play more minutes to compensate for Manu's rest time.

Then you look at the Lakers and every single one of them top to bottom can run for 40 minutes except for Fish.

I'm not sure how this is good for the Spurs.

[Lake_show]

He hasn't even played 28 minutes per game in his career, the guy is overrated.

[LakerHater]

It's not a bad idea! I think they shop him around to see what teams offer! He's got arthrities in his ankle, he's been banged up all year and then he wants to play in the summer!!! He's gonna break his body down!! With all that and the summer I really don't think he'll be productive next year, unless coach Pop plays him 20 mins. a game!
---Explore the option---

[ElNono]

I hate seeing any player off the Lakers as well but I think you have to trade Manu.

Manu has high value so you can get 2 good players for 1 very good player. Spurs can pick up a scoring small forward and shooting guard at the same time.

You say that Manu's great and that he's the heart of this team. But then again, you have to wonder why he's the sixth man instead of a starter. It comes down to his being fragile, that's the knock on him.

You have an old team and you are spending $10 million on a guy who can't play more than 30 minutes a game. That is and will be the Spurs weakness, star players who can't play big minutes.

Manu averaged only 31 minutes this year and ran out of gas in the Playoffs. Pop will probably have to reduce him down to 25 minutes to make sure he's rested. Hell, Timmy will have to play more minutes because Manu needs more rest.

Manu is shortening the careers of either Timmy or Tony because he needs rest and you gotta play Timmy or Tony more. Tony and Timmy already play 34 minutes a game, how much more will they have to play to give Manu even more rest next year?

25 minutes per game for your $10 million 3rd star player while forcing your Superstar to play more minutes to compensate for Manu's rest time.

Then you look at the Lakers and every single one of them top to bottom can run for 40 minutes except for Fish.

I'm not sure how this is good for the Spurs.

That's why you're a Laker fan. Ginobili is not going anywhere.

[Kori Ellis]

I hate seeing any player off the Lakers as well but I think you have to trade Manu.

Manu has high value so you can get 2 good players for 1 very good player. Spurs can pick up a scoring small forward and shooting guard at the same time.

The Spurs wouldn't get 2 good players for Manu right now. Most good players make as much as Manu does. So I don't know how you think the Spurs will get two of them. Teams aren't giving up the likes of Brandon Roy (or Carmelo Anthony like you mentioned in the other thread) for Manu.


You say that Manu's great and that he's the heart of this team. But then again, you have to wonder why he's the sixth man instead of a starter.

Whether he starts or comes off the bench, he always plays 27-31 mpg. The reason he has been moved to the bench regularly is a) the bench had no scoring punch b) it's easier for him to score when he doesn't have to share the ball with Tim/Tony and c) because other Spurs have sucked in the bench role (i.e. Finley) and the Spurs try to get these players involved earlier in the offense. Manu starting or not starting doesn't have anything to do with him being "fragile."

The reason Manu got worn out this season was because Tony was hurt for over 2 months (off the court for a month of that) and Manu had to carry much more the load than in previous seasons.


Manu averaged only 31 minutes this year and ran out of gas in the Playoffs. Pop will probably have to reduce him down to 25 minutes to make sure he's rested. Hell, Timmy will have to play more minutes because Manu needs more rest.

25 minutes per game for your $10 million 3rd star player while forcing your Superstar to play more minutes to compensate for Manu's rest time. I'm not sure how this is good for the Spurs.

Cutting Manu from 30 to 25 minutes won't increase Timmy's minutes, it will increase the load of the other Spurs wings. Manu can give you 18/4/4 in 25 minutes a game when rested, plus he is clutch and has an incredible will to win. I'll take that every day of the week for $10 million.

[Kori Ellis]

19.5 ppg in the regular season. Highest points, rebounds, assists and 3 point percentage in his career.

18 ppg vs Suns
21, 6 and 5 vs the Hornets

Just because he was banged up/worn down against the Lakers doesn't mean he's fragile or finished.

[Lackluster]

you have to wonder why he's the sixth man instead of a starter.

actually i don't think too many people wonder about that anymore.

i don't even think argentina wonders about this.

[LakerHater]

19.5 ppg in the regular season. Highest points, rebounds, assists and 3 point percentage in his career.

18 ppg vs Suns
21, 6 and 5 vs the Hornets

Just because he was banged up/worn down against the Lakers doesn't mean he's fragile or finished.
It really doesn't mean that he can be productive after competing this summer! Besides he turns 31 & hes got an arthritic ankle! I'm just say lets see what teams might offer or what he can get, It doesn't mean we have to!

[Allanon]

The Spurs wouldn't get 2 good players for Manu right now. Most good players make as much as Manu does. So I don't know how you think the Spurs will get two of them. Teams aren't giving up the likes of Brandon Roy (or Carmelo Anthony like you mentioned in the other thread) for Manu.

Carmelo is getting traded and he is the one who won't get equal value. Why not for Manu. Brandon Roy I agree is not obtainable.

As for 2 good players, there are a bunch of up and coming players that would fit that I mentioned earlier. They aren't each as good as Manu right now but they have potential and they aren't chopped liver right now either:

Travis Outlaw + Martell
Luol Deng + somebody
Jamal Crawford with David Lee or Nate Robinson or that wierd named dude

By trading in Manu for these young up and coming players, they get max value on Manu while also being good for the next 4 years.



Manu starting or not starting doesn't have anything to do with him being "fragile."

The reason Manu got worn out this season was because Tony was hurt for over 2 months (off the court for a month of that) and Manu had to carry much more the load than in previous seasons.

When Manu is playing "too many minutes" at 31 minutes, I think that is fragile for such a relatively young player.



Cutting Manu from 30 to 25 minutes won't increase Timmy's minutes, it will increase the load of the other Spurs wings.
Timmy or Tony or Manu has to be on the floor at all times for the Spurs to go. So with Manu sitting, that leaves either Tony or Timmy on the floor to make up for those that Manu should be.



Manu can give you 18/4/4 in 25 minutes a game when rested, plus he is clutch and has an incredible will to win. I'll take that every day of the week for $10 million.
Yes I agree, that's why the Nuggets would consider dumping Carmelo for Manu. They get a talented veteran without losing much in points. The Spurs get one of the best shooters in the game.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This is a ridiculous thread. Not only the church of manu is telling you that.

I can't believe you are the same guy who puts manu in a pedestal when he has a good game and throw him under the bus when he's down.

The problem with this season was the bench and Finley. They couldn't hit a shot all season long. Parker and Duncan were injured for weeks so all the load was on Manu.

How many weeks was Finley playing like garbage?

How many shots did Horry hit?

Barry was out for months

JV? the mighty mouse?

Who was hitting the damn shots?

All this that happened was a carry over from the entire season. The guy was wasted, it has nothing to do with "a glimpse" into the future or what the guy can give you.

Also you can't just hope to "save" him for the playoffs if the rest of the team is injured/plays like garbage. Manu was basically the main reason the spurs got into the playoff and that had its price.

To summarize - most of the team played like garbage all season long or was out injured.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

many fucking idiots posting in this thread. very short memory, very weak insight. only thinking about last night.

[Kori Ellis]

Timmy or Tony or Manu has to be on the floor at all times for the Spurs to go. So with Manu sitting, that leaves either Tony or Timmy on the floor to make up for those that Manu should be.

There's only 48 minutes in a basketball game. Tim and Tony can each play 32 and Manu play 25. One or two of them will be on the floor at all times. That's how it was all last year (06-07) when Manu played 27 mpg. Manu getting his minutes reduced to 25 doesn't effect Tony/Tim's minutes at all.

Oh ... and the Nuggets will get a lot more for Carmelo than Manu.

[Allanon]

There's only 48 minutes in a basketball game. Tim and Tony can each play 32 and Manu play 25. One or two of them be on the floor at all times. That's how it was all last year (06-07) when Manu played 27 mpg. Manu getting his minutes reduced to 25 doesn't effect Tony/Tim's minutes at all.
I disagree on this but we can leave it at that and see if Tony and Tim play more minutes with Manu playing less next year.



Oh ... and the Nuggets will get a lot more for Carmelo than Manu.
I don't think the Nuggets can get much more than Manu for Crymelo.

Melo's one of those star crossed stars. He's wildly talented but you take a risk when you have him on your team. Just like that DUI he got during the Playoffs this year. And his infamous "Don't Snitch" video. All that devalues him....he won't be traded for Wade, more likely a Manu level player or parleyed into 2-3 solid players.

I don't think Manu + filler for Carmelo is far-fetched at all.

[AztecPrincss]

Why Ginobili!! Is he an all star that had to put up a great out there..Infact trade parker he really fuked up settling for jump shots,not penetrating the basket,causing turnover after turn over..yeah he got lucky with sum shots but to be a finals mvp and an allstar and a seven year veteran with experience cmon man..Dont be silly ..How can you expect ginobili to have a great game if hes a bench player..Another fact...! Finley is a starter he shouldve had made half of his shots but nah he was a brick a fukng old brik ass fkr..Ginobili deserves all the credit in the world and brent barry too cause hes just amazing even when his hurt he tried his best..I kno his gonna get better and he'll be ready for another ring next season..Trade horry finley vauhn fabricio stoudamire and parker Its all about barry + ginobili.+Duncan and bowen now! makes sumthing happen!

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, the Spurs aren't considering offers for Tony, Tim and Manu this summer. But everyone can continue to pipe dream all they want.

The Spurs will just get an MLE level player in free agency. Try to package the end of the bench players with picks and see if anyone bites, round out the roster and then just call it an offseason. They aren't going to do any major deals.

[Kori Ellis]

Why Ginobili!! Is he an all star that had to put up a great out there..Infact trade parker he really fuked up settling for jump shots,not penetrating the basket,causing turnover after turn over..yeah he got lucky with sum shots but to be a finals mvp and an allstar and a seven year veteran with experience cmon man..Dont be silly ..How can you expect ginobili to have a great game if hes a bench player..Another fact...! Finley is a starter he shouldve had made half of his shots but nah he was a brick a fukng old brik ass fkr..Ginobili deserves all the credit in the world and brent barry too cause hes just amazing even when his hurt he tried his best..I kno his gonna get better and he'll be ready for another ring next season..Trade horry finley vauhn fabricio stoudamire and parker Its all about barry + ginobili.+Duncan and bowen now! makes sumthing happen!

Calm down on your ridiculous Parker hate. It's getting fucking annoying in every thread. Give the Lakers D some credit on stopping the Spurs penetration.

And learn how to spell and punctuate to make your sentences readable, freak.

[ElNono]

I disagree on this but we can leave it at that and see if Tony and Tim play more minutes with Manu playing less next year.


I don't think the Nuggets can get much more than Manu for Crymelo.

Melo's one of those star crossed stars. He's wildly talented but you take a risk when you have him on your team. Just like that DUI he got during the Playoffs this year. And his infamous "Don't Snitch" video. All that devalues him....he won't be traded for Wade, more likely a Manu level player or parleyed into 2-3 solid players.

I don't think Manu + filler for Carmelo is far-fetched at all.

First of all, we would need to want Carmelo.
An extremely talented me-first, unclutch, living the life dude that can't defend anybody.
Second of all, because it seems it can't get through your thick head, Manu isn't going anywhere.
I'm sure you want Manu traded, and I'm sure you want to see us implode like the Mavs. It just not going to happen.

[AztecPrincss]

Calm down on your ridiculous Parker hate. It's getting fucking annoying in every thread. Give the Lakers D some credit on stopping the Spurs penetration.

And learn how to spell and punctuate to make your sentences readable, freak.

who gives a fuk about the punctuation fool..I just wanted to get my point across and thats wat i did ....
parker fuked up in new orleans and in lakers series..thats a fact and fuk wat you have to say ..I have my own opinion Aight..:ihit:lol

[Kori Ellis]

who gives a fuk about the punctuation fool..I just wanted to get my point across and thats wat i did ....
parker fuked up in new orleans and in lakers series..thats a fact and fuk wat you have to say ..I have my own opinion Aight..:ihit:lol

Sure, you just won't have your opinion here.

Good night.

[ChumpDumper]

aight.

[duncan228]

:lmao I love it here.

[LakerHater]

Anyway, the Spurs aren't considering offers for Tony, Tim and Manu this summer. But everyone can continue to pipe dream all they want.

The Spurs will just get an MLE level player in free agency. Try to package the end of the bench players with picks and see if anyone bites, round out the roster and then just call it an offseason. They aren't going to do any major deals.
I know, it just a topic of disscussion! :wakeup
I'd really hate to lose 1 of the big three but, sometimes change is a good thing!

[nashzilla]

I know this isn't going to go over well with the Church of Manu, but I think we saw a glimpse into his future this postseason. Sure, he was banged up and only a shell of himself, but he relies so much on his athleticism. He is going to start losing that in the next couple of years and I think the Spurs need to start exploring the option of trading him while he still has some value.

Obviously, we would have to get the right fit in here to make any kind of move for a player like Manu and it couldn't be a prospect. I think a lot of teams would be interested in having him as a leader and helping them get over the hump.

Here are a few ideas:

Andre Iguodala - He would be awesome. He is 24 years old, plays great defense and has an all-around great game and will continue to improve.

Jason Richardson - 27 years old, great offensive game and would fit nicely as the 3rd piece. Also, Larry Brown loves vets and would love to have Ginobili.

Brandon Roy - 24, doubtful Portland would bite with their young base team, but maybe they want a leader like Manu.


Regardless, I think it's time to look at options. His game is going to decline in the next few years and he will become another version of Brent Barry once it happens.

maybe for j-rich. no way the other 2 are giving up potential future hall of famers for one that is on the down slope. i think the spurs would be fools to trade Manu. trade Oberto, he looked like youre weak link in these playoffs. he's as soft as well conditioned hair.

[v2freak]

I wouldn't shop Manu, but I would listen if the right offer came around. Same with Tony

[Allanon]

First of all, we would need to want Carmelo.
An extremely talented me-first, unclutch, living the life dude that can't defend anybody.
Second of all, because it seems it can't get through your thick head, Manu isn't going anywhere.
I'm sure you want Manu traded, and I'm sure you want to see us implode like the Mavs. It just not going to happen.

There are lots of bad things about Carmelo, but he's still probably the best pure shooter in the league and I think Pop and Tim can set him straight.

Nope. I don't want to see the Spurs implode, I would hate to see Tim Duncan's career end like Kobe's last 3 years, just churning the wheels.

I'd hate to see the big 3 get broken up, I just think Spurs FO retooling these last few years have left them with an untradeable roster outside of the Big 3. They've let go of all their young talent that could have been traded in exchange for 30+ year old players and that well has run dry. They have totally forgotten to develop young players except for Ian but he's been in the NBDL which is entirely different than the NBA.

Now Splitter says he can't join til possibly 2009 if ever at all.

It's possible that a late first rounder or 2nd rounder might improve the team but that's pretty rare. Free Agents haven't been clamoring to come to San Antonio.

The Spurs can't improve without a major trade and if it doesn't happen, I don't see the Spurs in the Finals for years to come.

Just my humble opinion, I know it's blasphemy in the Church of Manu.

[ElNono]

Nope. I don't want to see the Spurs implode, I would hate to see Tim Duncan's career end like Kobe's last 3 years, just churning the wheels.

I'd hate to see the big 3 get broken up, I just think Spurs FO retooling these last few years have left them with an untradeable roster outside of the Big 3. They've let go of all their young talent that could have been traded in exchange for 30+ year old players and that well has run dry. They have totally forgotten to develop young players except for Ian but he's been in the NBDL which is entirely different than the NBA.

I'm not necessarily a huge fan of our FO, but for the most part the retooling gave us a title last year. You can't do better than that. Now, normally the Spurs will retool even after winning a championship, but this time around they decided to 'experiment' by bringing back most of the same guys. The experiment wasn't that bad, considering we made it further than ever trying to repeat. But, ultimately it didn't work. So now we're going to dump some salary, and go after some guys that want to win a title. There's plenty of near 30 guys in the league that have made their money and just want a shot at a title. I wouldn't mind also going for something a little younger, like Azubuike (sp?) if he can be had without breaking the bank.



It's possible that a late first rounder or 2nd rounder might improve the team but that's pretty rare.

The Spurs can't improve without a major trade and if it doesn't happen, I don't see the Spurs in the Finals for years to come.

Just my humble opinion, I know it's blasphemy in the Church of Manu.

I agree the draft is not going to give us any ready-now talent. But I don't think we're so far off as to need a 'major trade' to get us over the hump.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

There are lots of bad things about Carmelo, but he's still probably the best pure shooter in the league and I think Pop and Tim can set him straight.

Nope. I don't want to see the Spurs implode, I would hate to see Tim Duncan's career end like Kobe's last 3 years, just churning the wheels.

I'd hate to see the big 3 get broken up, I just think Spurs FO retooling these last few years have left them with an untradeable roster outside of the Big 3. They've let go of all their young talent that could have been traded in exchange for 30+ year old players and that well has run dry. They have totally forgotten to develop young players except for Ian but he's been in the NBDL which is entirely different than the NBA.

Now Splitter says he can't join til possibly 2009 if ever at all.

It's possible that a late first rounder or 2nd rounder might improve the team but that's pretty rare. Free Agents haven't been clamoring to come to San Antonio.

The Spurs can't improve without a major trade and if it doesn't happen, I don't see the Spurs in the Finals for years to come.

Just my humble opinion, I know it's blasphemy in the Church of Manu.

Not from the church of manu but i don't get it why your post would piss them off - i think this was a very decent post.

[greens]

If you read the articles, then you know that this whole series, Manu has been playing on a really bad ankle. There is no way that he has been "just inconsistent or tired." He got an MRI done on that ankle.

To trade a guy for being hurt is ridiculous? Plus, thanks to his career season year, the Spurs were in the position to win anyway. He held the team together while Tim and Tony were injured.

Anyway, the core four, Tim/Manu/Tony/Bruce, is what gave the Spurs the championships. They all deserve the respect and the admiration of their fans. These guys basically lead the Spurs to the finals with "so-so" role players.

[rascal]

Why wouldn't you get married to 3 players that gave you 3 championships in 6 years, and took you to the WCF this last year?
Plus you cannot get equal value in return, period.

You don't build a team on what a player has given you in the past you build on what a player will give you in the future. Building on the past is a recipe for failure. If you can improve the team by trading Manu for a younger future star or a couple of young good players then its not a bad trade.


Who says you can't get equal value back?


Quit being so damn conservative.

Move Manu now because in two years he will not be worth much with his game on decline.

[LakerHater]

Move Manu now because in two years he will not be worth much with his game on decline.[/quote]
http://db.funformobile.com/images/smiles/good.gif (javascript:emoticon('form_text',':good:'))

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

If Manu were to be traded, you know how much crying the city of San Antonio would have? Manu blogging, "no hard feelings guys, it's a business, we didn't win our repeat..so they traded me. I would have liked to retire a Spur, but I feel ever indebted to San Antonio, Coach Pop, my teammates, for giving me the opportunity to win. I will miss them. "

Also trading a unique competitor like Manu for some steady production might end up biting the Spurs in the ass, should Manu get on a good enough squad. Which definitely be part of the risk.

I'd hate to see Timmy Tony and Pop not play along aside Manu, because they all go together other so well.

Then again Manu might be a non-threat, if he got a bad coach who used his skills poorly, (D'antoni like treatment) so if you were being practical as the FO, trade Manu to the East Coast maybe.

I'd have to change my name to ManuTim_Wohst_Emenies!

http://i.cnn.net/si/2004/olympics/2004/basketball/08/27/usa.argentina.ap/p1_duncan.ginobili_ap.jpg


I hate these worst case scenarios offseason speculations during the offseason...this year, it might not be that farfetched where it wouldn't be a fanciful consideration. :( :vomit:

Especially with the league getting better and younger and more competitive(Chris Paul, Lebron, Kobe + good team, Portland, the East getting better) Timmy needs to catch up. :depressed :depressed

[greens]

You don't build a team on what a player has given you in the past you build on what a player will give you in the future. Building on the past is a recipe for failure. If you can improve the team by trading Manu for a younger future star or a couple of young good players then its not a bad trade.


Who says you can't get equal value back?


Quit being so damn conservative.

Move Manu now because in two years he will not be worth much with his game on decline.




First of all, it was only last year that the Spurs won a championship.

Secondly, this was Manu best season in his career. He had career highs in assits, points, steals, etc...Why would you trade a player when he just had the best season of his career?

Not to mention the best streak of games in his career when he was getting 30 pts, 40 pts during a stretch of time.

Why trade him over one series when he was clearly injured?

Then again, I know you can't stand Manu.

[rascal]

Sure, you just won't have your opinion here.

Good night. Did you ban the princess?

[greens]

If Manu were to be traded, you know how much crying the city of San Antonio would have? Manu blogging, "no hard feelings guys, it's a business, we didn't win our repeat..so they traded me. I would have liked to retire a Spur, but I feel ever indebted to San Antonio, Coach Pop, my teammates, for giving me the opportunity to win. I will miss them. "


I'd hate to see Timmy Tony and Pop not play along aside Manu, because they all go together other so well.

Especially with the league getting better and younger and more competitive(Chris Paul, Lebron, Kobe + good team, Portland, the East getting better) Timmy needs to catch up. :depressed :depressed



I love the Spurs. I really do, but mainly because of the core players, Tim/Manu/Tony/Bruce. I live in LA. So I like the Spurs not because I live in San Antonio. Just because I really like the above four players.

Honestly, if one of them were to be traded, I won't be able to be a Spurs fan. Just because I think it would be cruel to do that to one of them after each of them has done so much for the Spurs organization. It would be unfair. I know that the NBA is just a business, but these guys are like a family.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I love the Spurs. I really do, but mainly because of the core players, Tim/Manu/Tony/Bruce. I live in LA. So I like the Spurs not because I live in San Antonio. Just because I really like the above four players.

Honestly, if one of them were to be traded, I won't be able to be a Spurs fan. Just because I think it would be cruel to do that to one of them after each of them has done so much for the Spurs organization. It would be unfair. I know that the NBA is just a business, but these guys are like a family.

I'd still be a Spurs fan. But a pretty angry one for a little bit. Usually most NBA championship teams aren't fortunate enough to have a charismatic squad like these guys that only come around every decade to fifteen years or so.

I know most of the NBA don't recognize it, but this team, if they win their fifth ship', with this squad, could be a team for the ages if they're not already that (I still see them being successful in the postseason for a few more years to come. Given the Timmy factor)

[rascal]

Anyway, the Spurs aren't considering offers for Tony, Tim and Manu this summer. But everyone can continue to pipe dream all they want.

The Spurs will just get an MLE level player in free agency. Try to package the end of the bench players with picks and see if anyone bites, round out the roster and then just call it an offseason. They aren't going to do any major deals.

No doubt the spurs won't trade Manu Parker Duncan or Bowen. Pop and RC haven't made a major player trade ever. The spurs do not get better through trades.

But I'll tell you right now they will not win another title with those guys as their top 4 players.

[ChumpDumper]

Who says you can't get equal value back?
http://www.nba.com/media/grizzlies/wallace-070618-74693803JM009-300.jpg

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2007/01/23/20070123_mchaleone_2.jpg

[LakerHater]

http://db.funformobile.com/images/smiles/yes.gif (javascript:emoticon('form_text',':yes:'))

[E20]

No doubt the spurs won't trade Manu Parker Duncan or Bowen. Pop and RC haven't made a major player trade ever. The spurs do not get better through trades.

But I'll tell you right now they will not win another title with those guys as their top 4 players.

I'll quote you on this.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

No doubt the spurs won't trade Manu Parker Duncan or Bowen. Pop and RC haven't made a major player trade ever. The spurs do not get better through trades.

But I'll tell you right now they will not win another title with those guys as their top 4 players.

:lol, all Timmy needs is a bench that isn't washed up.

[LakerHater]

No doubt the spurs won't trade Manu Parker Duncan or Bowen. Pop and RC haven't made a major player trade ever. The spurs do not get better through trades.

But I'll tell you right now they will not win another title with those guys as their top 4 players.
http://www.twistedtopics.com/vb/images/smilies/bsflag.gif

[TDMVPDPOY]

ginoboli needs to go with the rest...

his the one that cost us a repeat in 06 against the mavs

and now in 08 against the lakers.....

[greens]

I'd still be a Spurs fan. But a pretty angry one for a little bit. Usually most NBA championship teams aren't fortunate enough to have a charismatic squad like these guys that only come around every decade to fifteen years or so.

I know most of the NBA don't recognize it, but this team, if they win their fifth ship', with this squad, could be a team for the ages if they're not already that (I still see them being successful in the postseason for a few more years to come. Given the Timmy factor)





I don't know. I think the cour players deserve to retire as Spurs. They gave their all to win those championships. It would be disservice to trade any of them. Plus, other than Timmy, none of them make a ton of money compared to other players. Manu's salary is a joke. So these guys play for less money in order to make the team better.

I wouldn't be able to root for the Spurs if they seperate them.

[LakerHater]

ginoboli needs to go with the rest...

his the one that cost us a repeat in 06 against the mavs

and now in 08 against the lakers.....
http://www.twistedtopics.com/vb/images/smilies/a1.gif.. You can't blame it all on him, Spurs just didn't make shots down the stretch!

[Allanon]

:lol, all Timmy needs is a bench that isn't washed up.

That's the point, without trading a Big 3 player, how do you replace 5 bench players with 5 good younger ones. If the Spurs were in a position to do this, they would have done so this year instead of picking up Mighty Mouse.

They got KT in exchange for their 2009 #1 pick which might be a good pick.

This isn't about blaming Manu, it's just that he's the most logical trade choice of the Big 3.

You can't trade Duncan and Tony is actually young.

[greens]

ginoboli needs to go with the rest...

his the one that cost us a repeat in 06 against the mavs

and now in 08 against the lakers.....


I think people forget that it was his 3 that gave the Spurs the lead in the first place. Then they still had a full 5 minutes in overtime to win the game.

[rascal]

I love the Spurs. I really do, but mainly because of the core players, Tim/Manu/Tony/Bruce. I live in LA. So I like the Spurs not because I live in San Antonio. Just because I really like the above four players.

Honestly, if one of them were to be traded, I won't be able to be a Spurs fan. Just because I think it would be cruel to do that to one of them after each of them has done so much for the Spurs organization. It would be unfair. I know that the NBA is just a business, but these guys are like a family.

This type of sentimental thinking will lead you to failure. You don't trade a hall of fame player like Duncan because if your lucky enough to land one you keep him and build around him but anyone else is tradeable if the deal can improve the team.

It makes no sense hanging onto players out of some type of loyalty or what they did in the past.

[rascal]

That's the point, without trading a Big 3 player, how do you replace 5 bench players with 5 good younger ones. If the Spurs were in a position to do this, they would have done so this year instead of picking up Mighty Mouse.

They got KT in exchange for their 2009 #1 pick which might be a good pick.

This isn't about blaming Manu, it's just that he's the most logical trade choice of the Big 3.

You can't trade Duncan and Tony is actually young.

Totally agree. Your a logical poster.

[Allanon]

you don't trade any of the big 3 period you build around them..why is this so difficult for you to understand?

I really love these arm chair general managers here:lmao

That is normally the case but how do you build around the core with no tradeable assets, no good picks (unless it's 2010) and free agents generally not attracted to SA?

[greens]

That is normally the case but how do you build around the core with no tradeable assets, no good picks (unless it's 2010) and free agents generally not attracted to SA?


Tony and Manu don't make a lot of money actually. Manu's salary is like 9 million. Tony makes 10 million.

So they aren't expensive to keep.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

That is normally the case but how do you build around the core with no tradeable assets, no good picks (unless it's 2010) and free agents generally not attracted to SA?

FA will always be attracted to SA because we got Duncan, and they have enough pride in themselves to think they can help put us over the top. (WCF ain't to shabby)

That's how we've been winning three ships' in the last five years.
No major trades needed.

One or two acquisitions will help our bench enough. Finley in 2006,2007, helped a lot. The only area where the FO dropped the ball which is open to valid criticism was the Scola debacle. We got nothing from Bonner, and Scola would have made a difference for our offensive droughts.

With Mahnhimi developing, we will have a least an option in infusing our bench for 2009. I dont' know about Splitter. But it's not about replacing five players with five good players. Two or three pick ups would be good enough. Plus, Spurs never excelled by being the most talented team, they excelled by being the most disciplined.

But if the Spurs wanted to deviate from their conservative style, it wouldn't be impractical to trade Manu. But I doubt the Spurs org. would do it.

[greens]

But if the Spurs wanted to deviate from their conservative style, it wouldn't be impractical to trade Manu. But I doubt the Spurs org. would do it.


But that conservative style has helped the Spurs win 4 championships. Why change something that has worked before, even recently in 2007?

Do you think the Spurs would actually consider trading Manu? I honestly think Tim and Tony would have a big problem with that. I also don't think Pop would be okay with such a trade.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

But that conservative style has helped the Spurs win 4 championships. Why change something that has worked before, even recently in 2007?

Do you think the Spurs would actually consider trading Manu? I honestly think Tim and Tony would have a big problem with that. I also don't think Pop would be okay with such a trade.
No. I'm just saying hypothetically, a team in this situation would consider it.

But in our case they're likely not gonna trade Manu. Another team would , but the Spurs org. wouldn't because they're smart enough not to knee jerk. Plus the problem was our offensive production from the bench.

[SRJ]

The Spurs will just get an MLE level player in free agency. Try to package the end of the bench players with picks and see if anyone bites, round out the roster and then just call it an offseason. They aren't going to do any major deals.

In other words, the same team that was too old this year will be a year older.

[Kori Ellis]

In other words, the same team that was too old this year will be a year older.

No. They'll have Mahinmi (and maybe Splitter) and a young player they got with the MLE.

[Allanon]

In other words, the same team that was too old this year will be a year older.

+1, my thoughts exactly. They'll get younger for sure on the bench but by dodging the bullet with so-so MLE's instead of biting it with a trade, they'll be stuck in the 2nd tier.

[SRJ]

No. They'll have Mahinmi (and maybe Splitter) and a young player they got with the MLE.

When was the last time we picked up someone under 30 with the MLE? I'm not being rhetorical, I just don't remember.

[Kori Ellis]

+1, my thoughts exactly. They'll get younger for sure on the bench but by dodging the bullet with so-so MLE's instead of biting it with a trade, they'll be stuck in the 2nd tier.

Well they were in the WCF, not in the cellar. So, they aren't looking for major upgrades ... just a few pieces.

[LakerHater]

No. They'll have Mahinmi (and maybe Splitter) and a young player they got with the MLE.
I thought that Splitter signed with TAU! Mahinmi seems to be still learning the game and needs to bulk up a bit.

[Kori Ellis]

When was the last time we picked up someone under 30 with the MLE? I'm not being rhetorical, I just don't remember.

They don't normally spend the MLE in one lump sum. But I guess when they signed Butler/Elson they split it up among them.

[Kori Ellis]

I thought that Splitter signed with TAU! Mahinmi seems to be still learning the game and needs to bulk up a bit.

Splitter hasn't officially signed with Tau (yet). I'd imagine Mahinmi will be the Spurs big man rotation next year - yes, he is still learning.

[SRJ]

They don't normally spend the MLE in one lump sum. But I guess when they signed Butler/Elson they split it up among them.

Butler was young but useless. Elson was over 30 (granted, in very good physical condition) but clueless, and Bonner (just remembered) is young but barely plays.

2009 - the Year of the Bonner?

[K-State Spur]

No. They'll have Mahinmi (and maybe Splitter) and a young player they got with the MLE.

Kori, do you see it as a foregone conclusion that they'll use (at least most of) the MLE?

[tmtcsc]

It's not crazy talk. You guys need to try look at this objectively. Was Manu hurt? Of course he was, but this is just a perfect glimpse of what he will be in about 2-3 years when he loses a step.


Manu has taken a beating because of his style of play (which is awesome), but it puts more wear on players like him than a fundamental guy like Duncan.
.

Sincerely, Allen Iverson

[Holt's Cat]

The key for the Spurs will be to mix young aggressive bench talent with experienced veteran bench talent...and for Pop to play them all in the regular season.

Defense can be taught. Scoring cannot. The Spurs need to find guys in the draft and free agency who can light it up.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, do you see it as a foregone conclusion that they'll use (at least most of) the MLE?

I think it depends on what they do with their draft picks. I think they'll try to package their picks and trade up.

[Holt's Cat]

What's the excuse now, Holt? You're nowhere near the Lux Tax. Did you enjoy last night?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

ginoboli needs to go with the rest...

his the one that cost us a repeat in 06 against the mavs

and now in 08 against the lakers.....

you can only expect this kind of simplistic approach from a retarded person.

so because of a bad foul the spurs lost in 06?

Get a grip.

[LakerHater]

Did you ban the princess?
Holy Crap!!! I think she did!! I wonder why!?!
http://db.funformobile.com/images/smiles/unsure.gif (javascript:emoticon('form_text',':?sure:'))

[kace]

Manu is the right piece to the puzzle.

it's really annoying that he's so injury prone and seems so easily tired.
but he's the fucking right piece of the puzzle.
who can say he's not after having seen the last 5 years of spurs basketball ??

yes, he's probably overrated here with a lot of manu's groupies, but he's freaking awesome. don't touch the big three !!

the rebuilding thing is stupid. we have 3 or 4 good years of tim and manu. we don't need to waste them with very young and raw players who will need 3 years to be at the required level.

some teams build during long years to only hope making a run in the PO.

We have Tim, Tony and manu. and it makes us automatically first class contenders. all we need is to surround them well. which, i agree, is not so easy.

[Typhoon]

o no!!1

[ginobili fan]

I think the right way is trying to have better role young and athletic players instead of the Ime,Finley,Horry,Oberto,Vaughn,Stoudemire.. And then you keep the Big Four(plus maybe Kurt anb Brent).
And I'd like to see Manu develop into a REAL 6th man, not obliged to do all by himself and getting tired.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Some of you guys are just ridiculous. Quit trying to rationalize a trade for Manu solely on the basis of how he performed in the last series. He was our best player all season long, and he's a big reason we've been able to win 3 championships. He's almost unstoppable when he's healthy. Next year, hopefully he wont have to play excessive minutes during the regular season because guys get hurt. It would also be nice to have new bench guys that can help us out sufficienty enough so that opposing teams aren't able to predict our offense as much and zero in on our main guys so much. The more predictable your offense is, the harder it is to come by points. Ginobili isn't an anomally in that regard. Guy's like Iverson and even Kobe have a much easier time scoring nowadays than just a couple years ago, when they were both on teams that ran pretty predictable offenses. We need to find bench guys that can lift the load off on ALL of our main guys, not just Ginobili.

Anyobdy entertaining the thought that we should trade Manu is a clueless idiot. There's a reason he's been close to unstoppable his whole career - it's because he's that good. Unfortunately for him, the combination of an untimely injury to his ankle, excessive minutes during regular season, and not enough guys on our team to balance the offense did him in. It did us in.

Manu is still Manu, guys. While Shasha may have played great defense against Ginobili, anyobdy who thinks he'd have had the same results against a right Ginobili that didn't have to incur all the things he had to incur this season and post season is stupid. The guy was hurt in the New Orleans series and it's the reason why he wasn't himself int hat series, too. And I don't see anyone giving Mo pete any credit.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'd give the big 3 another two years together until the end of Manu's contract. I wonder how the FO will handle that.

I'd hate to trade him, but timvp is absolutely right that the team has to find a way to rest him for the playoffs. A healthy Manu and I'm sure we would've beaten LA this year. He is our closer, and that's exactly what was missing this year.

[BigBigSpur]

OK, then let's do it and see who will come up when needed.

[pjjrfan]

enough with this crap, duncan, ginobili and parker are not going anywhere, we live and die with tham.

And the fact is that this trio has brought in 3 titles and competed for a title every year they've been here. :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

We rebuild around them like we did in 04 and 06. What this team really needs and has needed for some team is a solid inside player who can rebound and score. Tim needs help his monster numbers were awesome but there was no DRob, Malik, or the 07 version of Oberto to help him this year, when Tim was out or in foul trouble it was a layup drill on our defensive end of our court. And this problem was all season long.

[sassystriker]

DO NOT TOUCH MANU!! He is part of what makes the Spurs a great team along with Tim, Tony and Bruce. Truth be told, the Spurs are so blessed to have a player like Manu. Great attitude, clutch, a competitor, an ego-healthy guy, his will is awesome and the best team player ever. Every elimination game this playoff, Manu showed up (even with that injury) to keep us from getting eliminated, and that includes game 3 against the Lakers. He is a phenomenal player. A winner everwhere he plays.

If your wanting to trade Manu because of the injuries and stuff and the so unlike him playoff play, think again, the injuries and fatigue was caused by the injury drama which came upon the Spurs midway the season. He had to carry the entire team when T&T got injured. Nobody else really stepped up to help him. And then February came and it was Manu and TD who had to again double their efforts to just win. Then Fin can't really produce well, the team had trouble winning, so he had to be yo-yoed back and forth to the bench. So basically, Manu has to and had filled every half empty cup of coffee throughout the season. And as for Manu having no gas come playoff time, its because he had done more than his part. Picked and twicked every broken and loose screw we had just to get to the playoffs. Don't put this loss on him. Others must also step up and be the star of some wins if we don't want this situation to happen again.

Lay off. Give him a rest. Manu deserves it. Respect for him!

[AFBlue]

Probably the worst time to suggest a Manu trade.

He was just exposed in that series as being an inconsistent shooter and overall player when he doesn't have his quickness. What we saw in Ginobili was the player he is likely to become in three to four years, unless he continues to improve his jumpshooting ability.

Bottom Line: Manu is a fierce competitor and a great player, but his injuries made him an average player in that series....and it would be poor strategy on the Spurs' part if they tried to trade him now.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Man I keep reading here and this is about to become an epic retarded thread with several retarded people posting on it. Thank God none of those idiots are running the SPurs FO or the whole team would be dead by now.

[Pucho!!!]

I hate seeing any player traded off the Lakers so I get your loyalty but I think you have to trade Manu for the betterment of the team.

Manu has high value so you can get 2 good players for 1 very good player.

Then you look at the Lakers and every single one of them top to bottom can run for 40 minutes except for Fish.

I'm not sure how this is good for the Spurs.

Concern yourself with Odom, he sux and he was healthy. What was his excuse for his crappy games, out of 5 games he had 2 good ones against OBerto and Horry. So, fuck him and fuck you for not worrying about the crappiness that is the Quakers

[Pucho!!!]

LMAO!!! Keep dreaming!! GiNOSEbili has been EXPOSED!

Exposed, exposed, why because he admitted to being hurt. Odom wasnt hurt and he had several subpar games. What was his excuse? Oh wait a minute he was subpar all year long. Isnt that why Kobe wanted to leave LA? Cuz all of yalls players except for 1 was not to his liking. Manu wasnt exposed; the hornets, suns and a hurt ankle had more to do with his not doing well then the lakers ever wished. The Lakers are garbage, Manu would have torched them just like he did the previous 2 rounds.

[carrecaminos]

Why the Spurs don't just trade Parker? guy is heartless and a pussy.

Or Why they don't trade TD? he is getting old and soft, he whines to much too.

Or why Pop don't fire himself and hire Sean E , who is a better coach.

Or why the Spurs move to a bigger market?


MAN, I HATE THE SPURSFANS EVEN YEARS SUMMER MELTDOWN.

[Pucho!!!]

He hasn't even played 28 minutes per game in his career, the guy is overrated.

Just a yr ago your beloved MVP, hated bein in your city because he said all but 1 of your players suck including "the machine"

[ATXSPUR]

I have really mixed feelings about trading Manu. On one hand he's done so much for this franchise. But at the same time his style of play will wear him down drastically the next couple of years. I haven't looked into all the detail of the manu + scrub for carmelo trade laker fan suggested but I think it would be very appealing if possible (which i seriously doubt it is). I also see people throwing the idea of Artest around. That wouldn't be bad at all.

Overall I have to say I want to keep Manu around. However, I won't rule out the possibility that there is something better available. Being too scared to depart from the past can set a franchise back for a long time.

[kaji157]

Probably the worst time to suggest a Manu trade.

He was just exposed in that series as being an inconsistent shooter and overall player when he doesn't have his quickness. What we saw in Ginobili was the player he is likely to become in three to four years, unless he continues to improve his jumpshooting ability.

Bottom Line: Manu is a fierce competitor and a great player, but his injuries made him an average player in that series....and it would be poor strategy on the Spurs' part if they tried to trade him now.

Not to say that your first line is irrelevant because Manu will be expiring in 2 years from now so the Spurs don´t need to care for what he will became in 3 to 4 years.

I think maybe it´s time to start the Big 3 for a whole season and start giving Tony some of Manu´s jobs, change a little the rotations so that Tony plays a lot more with the scrubs and Manu can play a lil more with TD to avoid having to be 5 on 1 for many minutes. Tony can handle that, and he is also younger and will not play in the Olympics so he will also be in much more better physical form.

[Pucho!!!]

Maybe we can pull off a trade where we trade a bunch of expiring contracts for a pretty good european pf/c or sg/sf, hahaha. That way we wont have to toy with this notion of trading manu. You never know, just a yr ago the lakers were poised to lose their best player. A crybaby fit and a "broken pinky"(probably to coax the lakers execs to make a deal or else) later and here comes pau gasol for all but a happy meal and sum change

[TMTTRIO]

Manu still has two more years on his contract and I think he has at least enough in him to play at a good level and I do think we need to at least get someone to back him up more. Why not wait until he comes off the books when his contract is up in two years to be able to go out and get a big FA.

[Blackjack]

You've got to ride Manu till the wheels fall off. You'll never get anything close to equal value, and the Spurs have no shot at another title if you're going to try and make Parker our 4th quarter closer.

[Spurs3000]

If we want to compete with LA, New Orleans, and Portland for the next 3 years while Duncan is still in his prime

For the next 3 years??

I'm sorry, but Tim's already past his prime. Did you not watch the playoffs this year?

[ballhog]

For the next 3 years??

I'm sorry, but Tim's already past his prime. Did you not watch the playoffs this year?

Tim is declining but he still had double-doubles every night w/ a triple-double in the last game. Ginobili has had some harder miles than TD has, though.

[duncan228]

I'm sorry, but Tim's already past his prime.

I think Duncan is still in his prime. He's still a force the defense has to address. He still anchors our defense. His numbers might be down slightly, but his basketball IQ is as sharp as ever and he is still the foundation of this team. He's got more Titles in him, don't be so quick to write him off.

[Holt's Cat]

So past his prime he's still pretty fucking awesome.

[kaji157]

I think Duncan is still in his prime. He's still a force the defense has to address. He still anchors our defense. His numbers might be down slightly, but his basketball IQ is as sharp as ever and he is still the foundation of this team. He's got more Titles in him, don't be so quick to write him off.

I think Duncan showed clearly he is great but past his prime in a very important matter which is stamina, TD constantly bricked a lot of shots due to him being tired midway the third quarter of almost every game.

He actually ended almost all games saying how tired he was, this is why i think the Spurs really, REALLY screwed up with the Scola trade, Scola might not be all-star not borderline all-start but he is a capable Scorer and is a player we could have used to maintain the scheme with Duncan out, back to the basket scorer with good midrange game. Scola was to me the perfect fit with the Spurs because his mins would have been increased during the season and giving more and more time to rest to TD, eventually he might be able to give us 20 solid mins off the bench and help TD more and more as he continues growing and TD continues loosing stamina.

Spurs have passed on a very capable backup PF they could afford for 3 millions a year to sign a player they will never use.

Holt was exposed as a really selfish owner in not trying his best as Less Alexander did.

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs have passed on a very capable backup PF they could afford for 3 millions a year to sign a player they will never use.

Holt was exposed as a really selfish owner in not trying his best as Less Alexander did.

They chose to spend Scola's money on Bonner. I don't see that as selfish or cheap. They just made a different decision. They thought they'd be signing Splitter this summer, so decided they didn't need Scola here. You can argue it was the wrong decision, but I don't see how it was selfish.

[rascal]

They chose to spend Scola's money on Bonner. I don't see that as selfish or cheap. They just made a different decision. They thought they'd be signing Splitter this summer, so decided they didn't need Scola here. You can argue it was the wrong decision, but I don't see how it was selfish.

I don't understand why they needed to sign Bonner. He can't even get any playing time he is so bad. That was a big screw up signing him.

[LakerLanny]

OK, if you insist we will take the Manu for Ariza deal someone proposed in this thread.

We'll even throw in Luke Walton as a sign of good faith!

[ElNono]

I think Duncan showed clearly he is great but past his prime in a very important matter which is stamina, TD constantly bricked a lot of shots due to him being tired midway the third quarter of almost every game.

I don't think being tired means you're past your prime. It just mean he played more than he should have and now he's tired. The thing with this past season is that we couldn't get the 2 or 3 weeks off we normally get between regular season and playoffs, because the seedings in the west were still up in the air.
So next year we need to stop with the whole coasting the regular season thing, and get ourselves in the playoffs early so we have time to rest.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I think Duncan showed clearly he is great but past his prime in a very important matter which is stamina, TD constantly bricked a lot of shots due to him being tired midway the third quarter of almost every game.

He actually ended almost all games saying how tired he was, this is why i think the Spurs really, REALLY screwed up with the Scola trade, Scola might not be all-star not borderline all-start but he is a capable Scorer and is a player we could have used to maintain the scheme with Duncan out, back to the basket scorer with good midrange game. Scola was to me the perfect fit with the Spurs because his mins would have been increased during the season and giving more and more time to rest to TD, eventually he might be able to give us 20 solid mins off the bench and help TD more and more as he continues growing and TD continues loosing stamina.

Spurs have passed on a very capable backup PF they could afford for 3 millions a year to sign a player they will never use.

Holt was exposed as a really selfish owner in not trying his best as Less Alexander did.

OMG!!

Duncan was played a lot of minutes, more minutes than what he's used to play because there were at time where the spurs couldn't buy a shot and they were murdered on the boards and on pick and rolls. So taking TD out of the game was = to lose the game. Pop had no choice.

You can see Duncan's priority was getting boards against the lakers and then score if it was possible as their D on him was very weak.

I just can't understand why the play on a series can determine the outcome of a entire team in your mind and that of others.. man I keep reading stupid shit.

The Spurs had 3 very bad breaks, first the Suns, then the Hornets - at the end of the road they didn't have anything left. The main problem with getting yourself in such a big hole is the fact your role players can't deliver. The only role player who deliver something was Barry at the end of the last series. The rest couldn't buy a shot or play good D. You can't win like that. You can't have that. And the consequences are among others that your core players get really tired and injured.

[kaji157]

I don't think being tired means you're past your prime. It just mean he played more than he should have and now he's tired. The thing with this past season is that we couldn't get the 2 or 3 weeks off we normally get between regular season and playoffs, because the seedings in the west were still up in the air.
So next year we need to stop with the whole coasting the regular season thing, and get ourselves in the playoffs early so we have time to rest.

Not past his prime, but in the past averaging 39 ppg was something very common for TD, in this PO he went back to that kind of mpg and shown he cannot do that anymore, he is still in his prime in the matters of game (showed by how he constantly abused gasol at the beginning of games) but not in the matter of stamina, if you don´t see this you just cant open your eyes.

[duncan228]

...but not in the matter of stamina, if you don´t see this you just cant open your eyes.

He was incredible in the Suns series. He got sick as the Hornets series started, played the first 2 games with a 103 degree fever. I don't think he ever had time to completely recover. The Hornets series went 7, they turned around into the Lakers series without any time to rest. Then the schedule was every other day.

If Duncan had time to recover I don't think we would have seen "stamina" issues.

[Spur-Addict]

They chose to spend Scola's money on Bonner. I don't see that as selfish or cheap. They just made a different decision. They thought they'd be signing Splitter this summer, so decided they didn't need Scola here. You can argue it was the wrong decision, but I don't see how it was selfish.

A different and less intelligent decision.

:bang

[Dex]

Who thinks Spurs will look to resign Manu in 2010?

And how much of a pay-cut would he be forced to deal with to stay? Would he be worth the money and is his decline just overrated?

Unfortunately, I wish Manu could stay a Spur for life, just like David, and hopefully Tim and Tony. But it just doesn't look like it's going to make fiscal sense, unless he quits playing after this contract. And Manu is far too much of a competitor for that.

[TMTTRIO]

I love Manu and hope he stays a Spur but I think the Spurs might just let him go once his contract is up and I know Manu has said that he wants to play for a few more years.

[hsxvvd]

I'd sooner wish to have the team sold and moved to Vegas! No thanks.

[ducks]

I'd sooner wish to have the team sold and moved to Vegas! No thanks.

so trading manu would be worse then sa losing the spurs:lol:lol:lol:lol

[smeagol]

Manu has still a championship in him

[Emanuel20]

Manu has still a championship in him

Or two!

[it's me]

so trading manu would be worse then sa losing the spurs:lol:lol:lol:lol

I say trade him... send Manu to Houston and see Scola and him win a championship....

[SRJ]

Not past his prime, but in the past averaging 39 ppg was something very common for TD

Ummm, 39 ppg isn't very common for anyone outside of a young Wilt Chamberlain.

Kobe and MJ never averaged more than 36 and 37 respectively at their best. Perhaps ppg was a typo for mpg?

[curtismedellin]

For the next 3 years??

I'm sorry, but Tim's already past his prime. Did you not watch the playoffs this year?


Did you???

[Ginobilly]

OMG!!


The Spurs had 3 very bad breaks, first the Suns, then the Hornets - at the end of the road they didn't have anything left. The main problem with getting yourself in such a big hole is the fact your role players can't deliver. The only role player who deliver something was Barry at the end of the last series. The rest couldn't buy a shot or play good D. You can't win like that. You can't have that. And the consequences are among others that your core players get really tired and injured.

Yeah I agree, our team had the hardest opponents going into the 2008 playoffs. In the end they just ran out of gas and couldn't get it done. I'm a firm believer that if we had played the lakers in the first or second round we probably could of beaten them because of the days off between games.

What's all this talk about trading Ginobili? All of ya'll know we wouldn't get anything in value in return. Please put down that pipe!

[VinnyTestesVerde]

oh gawd oh gawd help the spurs ahhh!!! trade Manu tomorrow!!1!!1!ONE!!!

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9803/everybodypanicvr9.gif

silly thread.

[brespursfan20]

Everyone needs to calm down, the Spurs are not the Spurs without Manu. If you get rid of any of the Big 3 then you take away their chances for another title. Getting rid of any of these players would be a HUGE mistake, that I have faith the spurs will not make!!

[Blake]

let's trade Duncan while we're at it.

crazy talk.

[tav1]

It's not crazy talk. If I were the Spurs and could land a good deal for Ginobli, I'd pull the trigger on him. For example, if I could get Brand for Ginobli I would do that trade. If Memphis would give up Mike Miller, Lowry/Crittenton, and the #5 pick, I'd do that trade. Manu's value to us and to other teams is only going to slide, this is the last summer the Spurs could move him and get something back in the process. That Memphis deal suggested above would also fit our 2010 plan.

[spursfan98]

It's not crazy talk. If I were the Spurs and could land a good deal for Ginobli, I'd pull the trigger on him. For example, if I could get Brand for Ginobli I would do that trade. If Memphis would give up Mike Miller, Lowry/Crittenton, and the #5 pick, I'd do that trade. Manu's value to us and to other teams is only going to slide, this is the last summer the Spurs could move him and get something back in the process. That Memphis deal suggested above would also fit our 2010 plan.

why would we trade manu thats retarded were not gunna mess up the big three

[tav1]

why would we trade manu thats retarded were not gunna mess up the big three

You wouldn't trade Manu for Miller, Lowry and the #5? I'm sorry gang, but I'd make that trade.

[LakerHater]

You wouldn't trade Manu for Miller, Lowry and the #5? I'm sorry gang, but I'd make that trade.
I think I would REALLY consider that!!
http://db.funformobile.com/images/smiles/yes.gif (javascript:emoticon('form_text',':yes:'))

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You wouldn't trade Manu for Miller, Lowry and the #5? I'm sorry gang, but I'd make that trade.

Miller isn't on Manu's level. Lowry already got beat out by Conley, and all the good big men in the draft are going to be gone by pick #5.

[ElNono]

You wouldn't trade Manu for Miller, Lowry and the #5? I'm sorry gang, but I'd make that trade.

Maybe we should trade you to another forum.
Manu is not on the market, period. Now go deal with it.

[50 cent]

bump.

This is just going to be a recurring theme for the remainder of his career. It's getting pretty obvious.

[tonyisamazing]

will everyone just stop with the trade manu threads? That is not a good idea. i don't care if he's hurt or not you don't just trade one of your best players. Any one saying to trade him you are all bandwaggoners you love manu and want to keep him when he's good and healthy but when he hits a bump in the road or has a bad game you all think he's terrible.

[ArgSpursFan.]

this is the perfect example of why I started the thread Manu should get traded ASAP.
With these kind of ungreatfull fans in the US, he really doesn't have to be loosing money with the spurs.
He could be a starter on any other NBA team and probably making way more money.
Fuck,I hate US spurs fans.

[Harry Callahan]

this is the perfect example of why I started the thread Manu should get traded ASAP.
With these kind of ungreatfull fans in the US, he really doesn't have to be loosing money with the spurs.
He could be a starter on any other NBA team and probably making way more money.
Fuck,I hate US spurs fans.

Well, I am not ungrateful about Manu. He's great. It's jerks like you I don't care for. He makes $10MM a year dummy. That's a boatload no matter how you slice it.

Just take that "You don't deserve Manu" stuff and stick it.

[T Park]

bump.

This is just going to be a recurring theme for the remainder of his career. It's getting pretty obvious.


And you honestly think you can get equal value for him?

Please....

[ducks]

this is the perfect example of why I started the thread Manu should get traded ASAP.
With these kind of ungreatfull fans in the US, he really doesn't have to be loosing money with the spurs.
He could be a starter on any other NBA team and probably making way more money.
Fuck,I hate US spurs fans.
manu is the most popular spur
and you think spur fans are ungratefully
do they have school in that country?

[ducks]

And you honestly think you can get equal value for him?

Please....

you can not get = value in return because spurs waited to long

somone may offer you a great deal you take it

[50 cent]

And you honestly think you can get equal value for him?

Please....

So you're just going to let him rot away on the IR as the Spurs fade into oblivion behind the rest of the NBA and get absolutely nothing in return for him?

[vanvannen]

So you're just going to let him rot away on the IR as the Spurs fade into oblivion behind the rest of the NBA and get absolutely nothing in return for him?

Bare in mind Spurs got him on the second round of the draft and he is making way less money than other stars of this league. He is a bargain for the Spurs.

[sehui]

Im a die hard manu fan...but a trade is becoming more and more realistic :(

[ArgSpursFan.]

Well, I am not ungrateful about Manu. He's great. It's jerks like you I don't care for. He makes $10MM a year dummy. That's a boatload no matter how you slice it.

Just take that "You don't deserve Manu" stuff and stick it.

fucking Carlos Delfino is making more money tham Manu.
Manu is not even a starter in San Antonio coze there is no body half way decent on the bench to bring some spark from the bench.
he's done more for the spurs tham what the spurs have done for him.Believe it.

[spursfan09]

he's done more for the spurs tham what the spurs have done for him.Believe it.

You have got to be talking about Tim Duncan right?


The Spurs have given Manu that oppurtunity to do what he loves for a living and he is a millionaire. He never could of had the same oppurtunities in Argentina playing basketball. Dont you believe that Ginobili is bigger than the Spurs organization for one bit.

[ArgSpursFan.]

You have got to be talking about Tim Duncan right?


The Spurs have given Manu that oppurtunity to do what he loves for a living and he is a millionaire. He never could of had the same oppurtunities in Argentina playing basketball. Dont you believe that Ginobili is bigger than the Spurs organization for one bit.

you're a fuckinf idiot dude,do you think the Spurs will ever get another SG like Ginobili in the future??Ginobili is unique,and If they manage to land a SG superstar,do you think they'll just bench him like they bench Ginobili????
you're fucking crazy,or just another blind homer.
BTW,Ginobili could be making more money on any NBA team,and Teams in Eupore would probably pay him better tham in the NBA.
So,yes, Ginobili has done more for the Spurs tham what the Spurs have done for Ginobili
The spurs were not even able to land a half way decent bench player since Horry in 2005 and you think they could do something for ginobili???c'mon!!!

[T Park]

So you're just going to let him rot away on the IR as the Spurs fade into oblivion behind the rest of the NBA and get absolutely nothing in return for him?

I think your being overdramatic.

Once again, your not gonna get equal value, so why the hell would you do it?

[ulosturedge]

This whole thread is a waste of time.

[vander]

I think your being overdramatic.

Once again, your not gonna get equal value, so why the hell would you do it?

Future > Past

[DarkMaverick]

Ginobili has certainly done a lot for the Spurs. Our team wont have 2 additional rings (2005 and 2007) without Ginobili and that is a FACT we all must admit.

[Texas_Ranger]

I really like Manu, and he's one of my best players in the NBA. And I'm sorry to say so, but he should be traded.

[Amarelooms]

Mavs will trade Josh Howard for Manu...lets get it done :elephant

[SenorSpur]

Count me in as one who agrees the Spurs shouldn't (and will not) be exploring ways to trade Ginobili. They should, however, be looking at ways to accomodate his workload and replace his contributions.

I'm still troubled that the wing position has been and continues to be the "achilles heel" for this team. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Despite winning two titles since his departure in '03, the FO has not been able to find an adequate replacement for SJAX. Barry and Finley have been serviceable players and consummate pros. However it's been 5 years and this position screams for a younger, more talented player and frankly it's a disappointment that such a player is still missing from this roster.

Obviously, developing such a player takes time. At the very least, the FO should have had a pipeline of at least 2-3 possible, up-and-coming wing players in either D-league or overseas. For whatever reason, it hasn't happened.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

50 Cent makes valid points about what Manu will be like in a few years, but that's the point - he's not there yet. He'll play this contract out, comes off the books in 2010, and that's when we get a new 3rd piece in free-agency. That is clearly the plan. If Manu then re-signs for a decent price, all the better.

Like timvp, I think he has to play limited minutes this year - I'd say 24 minutes. Use him when you need him, and in blowouts let him rest.

Don't trade him now though. As T Park said, he is the heart and soul of the team, and the Big Four deserve another shot together. And as others said, you won't get equal value for him now anyway.

Manu is still in the top 5 clutch players in the NBA, so save him for the clutch and watch him tear people to pieces.

Pity we don't have more depth at the swing to absorb his minutes! Finley... man, what are they thinking? :depressed Time for Ime and Mason to step up.

[DROB4EVER]

Cant see manu playing for anyone else. That said it would be very unlikely to get equal value back in a trade due to his age and low salary.

Keep in mind this guy is the second best sg in the NBA. He puts up numbers per 48mins equalled only by Kobe.

[LakerLanny]

Naw, I wouldn't trade him. But next season the Spurs need to find a way to save him for the playoffs. As I said in another thread, playing him 20 minutes a game and in only 40 games is the type of strategy I'm thinking about.

Ginobili's athleticism this year peaked in December and his performance peaked in February. Part of the performance part of that equation is related to injuries .... but a majority of the reason Ginobili's athleticism and performance declined was due to fatigue. Drastic measures have to be taken to make sure that doesn't happen next year in the playoffs ........ especially considering he'll be playing in the Olympics this summer.

I don't want to trade Manu but I also don't want to ignore the reality and have the Spurs go into next year without an active gameplan regarding how to save Manu for the postseason.

I agree with you that they need to watch his minutes, but obviously that could cost them precious games and perhaps HCA in one or more series.

Moreso than almost any other team, SA is a team that thrives on the HCA.....without it I think you are asking a lot to expect to get through the Western Conference from say a 7 or 8 seed position.

It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. One thing I would do now if I was SA is completely shut him down until the ankle is 100% or as close to 100% as it is going to get....even if that means he doesn't play until mid-November, December or even January.

When he does come back, it is critical for you guys that he be able to do the things that have made him famous. With as much doom and gloom as I am seeing on this board about your team, I still rate them absolutely as the Lakers biggest obstacle towards getting back to the Finals. That of course assumes your Big 3 are relatively healthy going into the playoffs.

[50 cent]

Question: Would you trade Manu for SJax straight up right now?

I would in a heartbeat.

[DPG21920]

Question: Would you trade Manu for SJax straight up right now?

I would in a heartbeat.

Hell no.

[baseline bum]

Moreso than almost any other team, SA is a team that thrives on the HCA.....without it I think you are asking a lot to expect to get through the Western Conference from say a 7 or 8 seed position.

I totally disagree. In the past 5 years the Spurs have played 4 series without HCA and won 3 of them. This core has won titles from the 1,2, and 3 seed, so homecourt isn't a huge deal for them.

[LakerLanny]

I totally disagree. In the past 5 years the Spurs have played 4 series without HCA and won 3 of them. This core has won titles from the 1,2, and 3 seed, so homecourt isn't a huge deal for them.


Without Manu for an extended stretch, it might be hard to ensure a top-3 seed.

I am talking about if they try and rest him and it costs them critical regular season games and they fall down to 6th, 7th or 8th seed. I think it is asking a lot for any team to win from the 6-8 seeds in the West, but it would probably be better have one of those seeds and have your Big 3 healthy than to push hard for a higher seed and not have them healthy for the playoffs.

[LakeShow]

Question: Would you trade Manu for SJax straight up right now?

I would in a heartbeat.

Stephen Jackson Feels Underappreciated

http://www.blogsmithcdn.com/avatar/images/327/533190_64.jpg (http://nba.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tom-ziller/)Posted Aug 23rd 2008 9:45AM by Tom Ziller (http://nba.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tom-ziller/) (author feed (http://www.fanhouse.com/bloggers/tom-ziller/rss.xml))
Filed under: Warriors (http://nba.fanhouse.com/category/warriors/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/08/stephenjackson-tz-240.jpgThere's never a dull moment in the life cycle of an NBA franchise (unless you're the Bucks). Golden State has remade its roster this summer, letting Baron Davis (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/BaronDavis/) spread his wings elsewhere while poaching Southlanders Corey Maggette (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/CoreyMaggette/) and Ronny Turiaf (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/RonnyTuriaf/). Andris Biedrins (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/AndrisBiedrins/) and Monta Ellis (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/MontaEllis/) received weighty extensions. Things seem settled for now.

But here's Stephen Jackson (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/StephenJackson/), in the middle of August, posting in Port Arthur talking about needing a contract extension to remain happy with the direction of the time. Take it away, Marcus Thompson III of the Contra Costa Times (http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/ci_10280076?nclick_check=1):

"It's something I always think about," Jackson said from his basketball camp. "It's definitely something that has to be addressed because of what I do for this team and what I've done since I've been here, bringing this team from one of the bottom teams in the league to a playoff team, to a team that won 49 games. It's not what I want, it's what I deserve. "... I won't be comfortable going into this season knowing I have to play this whole season being the fifth highest-paid and not get an extension. I would not be happy."
Jackson's a fine player on the right team, and his contract is a bit underpriced. But it's not like GSW's scrubs are making more than him. Ellis and Biedrins are stars in the making, 22-year-olds with immediate production value and potential for excellence. Maggs is one of the best scorers in the league. Al Harrington is ... well okay, Al Harrington (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/AlHarrington/) is overpaid. But that's not the fault of Chris Mullin (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/ChrisMullin/), who had to take Harrington to get rid of Mike Dunleavy (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/MikeDunleavy/) and Troy Murphy (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/TroyMurphy/). (It's the fault of Chris Mullin, who signed Funleavy and Murph to those insane contracts in the first place.)

Jack hasn't been paying much attention to the Warriors of late if he thinks he -- a 30-year-old bottle rocket who has been great on winning teams and disastrous on losing, stagnant teams -- is getting an extension. Mullin snubbed Baron, Monta and Andris last summer! If there's no gun to his head (as there definitely was with Monta and Biedrins this summer), Mullin's not flinching. So if Jackson isn't getting an extension, and he acts as "uncomfortable" as he says he will be, there's only one other solution: trade him. Maybe it will work out for the best (the Ron Artest (http://nba.fanhouse.com/tag/RonArtest/) booby prize?) but I can't see how it results in making Jack more money next year.

[spursfan09]

you're a fuckinf idiot dude,do you think the Spurs will ever get another SG like Ginobili in the future??Ginobili is unique,and If they manage to land a SG superstar,do you think they'll just bench him like they bench Ginobili????
you're fucking crazy,or just another blind homer.
BTW,Ginobili could be making more money on any NBA team,and Teams in Eupore would probably pay him better tham in the NBA.
So,yes, Ginobili has done more for the Spurs tham what the Spurs have done for Ginobili
The spurs were not even able to land a half way decent bench player since Horry in 2005 and you think they could do something for ginobili???c'mon!!!

chill on the cussing. You don't have to call me an idiot just because I'm not in love with Manu like you are. And you are the homer. Ginobili has definitly helped Tim Duncan and the Spurs win championships. He could be probably the best SG ever to play for the Spurs, but some might disagree because of Gervin. It is a matter of opinion. I love Manu, but come on he is not above the Spurs organization. They gave him an oppurtunity by drafting him, by signing him, by playing. He is not the one who chose to play for them. Spurs chose him and helped him just as much as he helped them. But I shouldn't argue with a person who obviously puts a player above a team. I am Spurs fan, not just a Ginobili fan. If trading him meant we would be better than go for it. However I do not want to trade him at all, and hope he plays like he is capable of playing. Only player I would never trade is Tim Duncan. He is the Spurs right now

[T Park]

ArgSpursfan is a moron ignore him.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

ArgSpursfan is a moron ignore him.

+1

Please!

[DPG21920]

ArgSpursfan is a moron ignore him.

Truth.

[50 cent]

Bump.

I told you guys he was going to be a china doll the rest of his career.

The rest of you were too blind to see the truth.

[Duncan2177]

bump.

I told you guys he was going to be a china doll the rest of his career.

The rest of you were too blind to see the truth.

fu

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Bump.

I told you guys he was going to be a china doll the rest of his career.

The rest of you were too blind to see the truth.


nothing I can think of lowlier than a prick who can't wait to say "I told you so"

Jesus fucking christ! wait 'till the news is official at least

[Xylus]

50 Cent is Manu's creator, apparently.

What kind of douche takes credit for predicting someone's injury?

[hater]

Bump.

I told you guys he was going to be a china doll the rest of his career.

The rest of you were too blind to see the truth.

good timing, asshole

[spurtech09]

manu does not need to be traded even if he is really hurt or not hes not going to be hurt forever....with plenty of rest he will be ready for the the play-offs....its not the end of the world