Spurs Youth Is Overrated

[jjktkk]

I personally didn't expect much, but I sure as don't expect somebody to tell me they're exceptional at drafting either, which is what I was calling out.

Suddenly, if you said they're not not all that great picking, you're trolling and a mav krew? Why, because they lucked out with Manu in the 2nd round 20 years ago?

No takers yet from the fanbois to grab that list and defend those picks.

I've already mentioned the names of the players that were successful that the Spurs drafted in the past 10 years. You moved the goalposts on my answer. You mentioned Manu, but you won't give PATFO credit for draft him. Guess Parker doesn't count either huh? Sad how far you've fallen on here El.

[ElNono]

I've already mentioned the names of the players that were successful that the Spurs drafted in the past 10 years. You moved the goalposts on my answer. You mentioned Manu, but you won't give PATFO credit for draft him. Guess Parker doesn't count either huh? Sad how far you've fallen on here El.

So Corey Joseph, Fathead, White and Murray? Let's add Walker in there too, just in case.

My issue with living in nostalgia-land is that very rarely somebody keeps a job for what they did 20 years ago. I don't know how many jobs you had where you can just get away with being average, if that, for 5-10 years in an extremely compe ive market. This is a business after all.

Plus, the franchise is not what it was 20 years ago. Drafting and developing is much, much more important now that there's no Duncan to hold their hands, and put some makeup on maybe not so clear cut decisions.

Now, if the argument is that this FO is much better at identifying and trading for talent, that's fair.

[duncan2k5]

It's not about favorites. Pop always plays the long game when it comes to young players with the 1 exception being Duncan. You must not recall Parker and Ginobili being benched at various stages early in their career. Look at Patty as another example, he was glued to the bench, towel waving before he got his opportunity. Having said that, do I agree with Lonnie not playing more minutes, no but let's not pretend Pop doesn't have a plan in mind to get Lonnie to flourish. You can disagree with his strategy but Pop still wants the same end result.

Pop never benched Parker for games on end... He only would bench him during a game... Secondly Pop isn't the same... To act like 2001 Pop and 2019 Pop operate the same is dishonest....

Thirdly yall said he had a long term plan for many players that ended up being traded... I don't think he is this mastermind... I just think he doesn’t think Lonnie is that good and would make the team better... Ja Morant would be in Austin if he were here...Curry would never be as good as he is because like I keep saying, the first time he pulls up from 40 on a fast break, he would be benched for months, and would never do it again... Pop neutered players... So the psychological effects of Pop benching young players causes them to be passive because they are afraid of not playing again...

None of the big 3 were ever benched for ten plus games for any reason, nevertheless making a mistake... Kawhi was never done that way... This is recent behavior from Pop, and we have yet to see a player progress at a pace that young players on other teams have progressed in a similar span of time... They give their players the freedom to play their game and make mistakes

[duncan2k5]

A good list will list all the players passed over for who they chose to draft instead. All the missed opportunities on draft night.

That list is long as ... I've always said that... We passed over a ton of players over the years (along with players we drafted and gave away before they got to play with us that ended up being decent for other teams)

[Sugus]

That list is long as ... I've always said that... We passed over a ton of players over the years (along with players we drafted and gave away before they got to play with us that ended up being decent for other teams)

This might be the single most ing stupid argument against the FO on the forum. As in, legitimately re ed. You're gonna criticize the franchises' drafting over players they didn't get, with their single draft pick, after these players' careers have already panned out? Are you familiar with the concept of "hindsight" or would you like an explanation?

[Sugus]

So Corey Joseph, Fathead, White and Murray? Let's add Walker in there too, just in case.

My issue with living in nostalgia-land is that very rarely somebody keeps a job for what they did 20 years ago. I don't know how many jobs you had where you can just get away with being average, if that, for 5-10 years in an extremely compe ive market. This is a business after all.

Plus, the franchise is not what it was 20 years ago. Drafting and developing is much, much more important now that there's no Duncan to hold their hands, and put some makeup on maybe not so clear cut decisions.

Now, if the argument is that this FO is much better at identifying and trading for talent, that's fair.

So White was picked 20 years ago, huh? Also Lonnie, who half the forum was knoblicking after the Rockets game? Developing consecutive 29th picks into starting caliber players seems like fine development to me, I seriously don't know what you're expecting but you're delusional to expect anything else. If Lonnie shows any more consistent scoring similar to what he did against the Rockets, it'll be a massive drafting win as well. But surely you'll be here complaining about Pop not giving him minutes, instead of praising the FO who picked him in the first place... Sad.

[ElNono]

So White was picked 20 years ago, huh? Also Lonnie, who half the forum was knoblicking after the Rockets game? Developing consecutive 29th picks into starting caliber players seems like fine development to me, I seriously don't know what you're expecting but you're delusional to expect anything else. If Lonnie shows any more consistent scoring similar to what he did against the Rockets, it'll be a massive drafting win as well. But surely you'll be here complaining about Pop not giving him minutes, instead of praising the FO who picked him in the first place... Sad.

I'll have zero problem to give them credit for Murray, White and Lonnie, said as much already, but it's too early right now. Bryn Forbes 'has been developed into a starting caliber player' too, but is he really a starter? maybe he is for a 9-14 team.

Are you gonna step up your game, pick up that list for the past 10 years, and tell us what you liked about those picks the FO made?

[duncan2k5]

This might be the single most ing stupid argument against the FO on the forum. As in, legitimately re ed. You're gonna criticize the franchises' drafting over players they didn't get, with their single draft pick, after these players' careers have already panned out? Are you familiar with the concept of "hindsight" or would you like an explanation?

their JOB is talent evaluation...so the point the person who i was responding to and agreeing with is making is that our supposedly elite talent evaluators have missed MANY good to elite players in the draft...it's not a hard concept...keep up

[duncan2k5]

I'll have zero problem to give them credit for Murray, White and Lonnie, said as much already, but it's too early right now. Bryn Forbes 'has been developed into a starting caliber player' too, but is he really a starter? maybe he is for a 9-14 team.

Are you gonna step up your game, pick up that list for the past 10 years, and tell us what you liked about those picks the FO made?

he wont

[Sugus]

I'll have zero problem to give them credit for Murray, White and Lonnie, said as much already, but it's too early right now. Bryn Forbes 'has been developed into a starting caliber player' too, but is he really a starter? maybe he is for a 9-14 team.

Are you gonna step up your game, pick up that list for the past 10 years, and tell us what you liked about those picks the FO made?

You just don't get the concept that not every pick can be good, huh? Once again; the Spurs have never been picking in the lottery, where there's an exponentially increased chance of success, so evaluating their picks in a vacuum without at least comparing them to other franchises' mid to late round picks is a foolish task. They've hit on prospects more often than not, but they cannot control how a prospect develops even after drafting them, not to mention being locked out of the top talent pool - which means that each successful pick for the Spurs is a steal that a dozen+ teams passed over.

You can't give the Spurs credit for any of this, instead hating them for the slightest misstep. DJ has already far exceeded expectations for a 29th pick even if he's not playing as well as we'd love him to, and White also had an above-average season last year dragging the Spurs to the playoffs. Have you looked up what other teams do with their 29th picks, how likely they are statistically to produce quality players, or are you bashing the Spurs out of your ass?

[Prime BEEF]

This might be the single most ing stupid argument against the FO on the forum. As in, legitimately re ed. You're gonna criticize the franchises' drafting over players they didn't get, with their single draft pick, after these players' careers have already panned out? Are you familiar with the concept of "hindsight" or would you like an explanation?

This is just dumb. It’s not hindsight! There were many discussions on ST about the talent available at that pick and there wasn’t a giant Luka army out there for a reason.

as soon as the FO made the pick. We knew immediately that the FO left money on the table and passed up better players or those players that had a better chance of contributing to an nba team than luka. This happens every year and gets old.

its only hindsight for those that aren’t paying attention to the players throughout the college season.

[tholdren]

You just don't get the concept that not every pick can be good, huh? Once again; the Spurs have never been picking in the lottery, where there's an exponentially increased chance of success, so evaluating their picks in a vacuum without at least comparing them to other franchises' mid to late round picks is a foolish task. They've hit on prospects more often than not, but they cannot control how a prospect develops even after drafting them, not to mention being locked out of the top talent pool - which means that each successful pick for the Spurs is a steal that a dozen+ teams passed over.

You can't give the Spurs credit for any of this, instead hating them for the slightest misstep. DJ has already far exceeded expectations for a 29th pick even if he's not playing as well as we'd love him to, and White also had an above-average season last year dragging the Spurs to the playoffs. Have you looked up what other teams do with their 29th picks, how likely they are statistically to produce quality players, or are you bashing the Spurs out of your ass?

Its entertainment. None of these guys are as good as advertised. But it is disheartening to draft a pg who cant even play the position.

[ElNono]

You just don't get the concept that not every pick can be good, huh? Once again; the Spurs have never been picking in the lottery, where there's an exponentially increased chance of success, so evaluating their picks in a vacuum without at least comparing them to other franchises' mid to late round picks is a foolish task. They've hit on prospects more often than not, but they cannot control how a prospect develops even after drafting them, not to mention being locked out of the top talent pool - which means that each successful pick for the Spurs is a steal that a dozen+ teams passed over.

You can't give the Spurs credit for any of this, instead hating them for the slightest misstep. DJ has already far exceeded expectations for a 29th pick even if he's not playing as well as we'd love him to, and White also had an above-average season last year dragging the Spurs to the playoffs. Have you looked up what other teams do with their 29th picks, how likely they are statistically to produce quality players, or are you bashing the Spurs out of your ass?

so you basically agree they're not really exceptional at it. My beef is not that they're average at picking talent, is with the idea that somehow they excel at it, as it was brought up. That's why I brought up the list and still no takers on how those picks really convey the idea that the FO has been doing a bang up job picking where they were picking.

[GAustex]

Too bad the kid from Oklahoma State snapped his foot. He was showing signs of being a keeper on the wing.

[Sugus]

so you basically agree they're not really exceptional at it. My beef is not that they're average at picking talent, is with the idea that somehow they excel at it, as it was brought up. That's why I brought up the list and still no takers on how those picks really convey the idea that the FO has been doing a bang up job picking where they were picking.

Who the said exceptional? They have gotten through years of mid and low level picks by consistently drafting solid role players out of mid round picks, with the occasional home run steal, no one's saying they're the best drafting FO ever except for your stupid strawman. RC and the Spurs have drafted well enough to where I'd love to see what they do with a lottery pick, but beyond that, it's the combination of both drafting AND development which makes the Spurs special; some franchises have one or the other, hardly any has both. And again, what a stupid idea to bring up a drafting list when you could get a similar but probably worse one done for every franchise... Almost like drafting 19-20yo players on their potential isn't a surefire thing. Stupid thread to begin with, tbh.

[ElNono]

Who the said exceptional? They have gotten through years of mid and low level picks by consistently drafting solid role players out of mid round picks, with the occasional home run steal, no one's saying they're the best drafting FO ever except for your stupid strawman. RC and the Spurs have drafted well enough to where I'd love to see what they do with a lottery pick, but beyond that, it's the combination of both drafting AND development which makes the Spurs special; some franchises have one or the other, hardly any has both. And again, what a stupid idea to bring up a drafting list when you could get a similar but probably worse one done for every franchise... Almost like drafting 19-20yo players on their potential isn't a surefire thing. Stupid thread to begin with, tbh.

My first post in this thread mentions exactly why I brought this up, and that's a lot of words to say you're not touching that list with a 10 foot pole, tbh...

You have to make up your mind. Either that list looks average like every other ball club, or the Spurs 'drafting AND development' makes them 'special' (whatever that means). You can't have both on the same paragraph. Pick a lane and come back.

[ElNono]

BTW, these are the comments I was alluding to:

I'm interested to know how involved RC is. Man if he's not drafting anymore this is going to be a long long stretch of the team sucking.

Agreed. RC's drafting prowess is the best thing this franchise has going for it, tbh.

[Slippy]

Pop never benched Parker for games on end... He only would bench him during a game... Secondly Pop isn't the same... To act like 2001 Pop and 2019 Pop operate the same is dishonest....

Thirdly yall said he had a long term plan for many players that ended up being traded... I don't think he is this mastermind... I just think he doesn’t think Lonnie is that good and would make the team better... Ja Morant would be in Austin if he were here...Curry would never be as good as he is because like I keep saying, the first time he pulls up from 40 on a fast break, he would be benched for months, and would never do it again... Pop neutered players... So the psychological effects of Pop benching young players causes them to be passive because they are afraid of not playing again...

None of the big 3 were ever benched for ten plus games for any reason, nevertheless making a mistake... Kawhi was never done that way... This is recent behavior from Pop, and we have yet to see a player progress at a pace that young players on other teams have progressed in a similar span of time... They give their players the freedom to play their game and make mistakes

Agree.

[TD 21]

The antiquated, senility of this organization has seeped into the player development the past few years.

There's countless examples of random players showing significant improvement and modernizing their game in short order, yet it's taken Murray 3+ years and 4 off seasons and he still has a loose handle and can't shoot spot up 3s, let alone pull up ones. Meanwhile, White inexplicably lacks confidence and doesn't shoot 3s in volume. In fact, none of the youth does.