Dem debate tonight

[Spurtacular]

You're nowhere near as intelligent as you want people here to think and it burns you up inside.

Now use some big words to compensate.

Chump's insecurities bubbling up again.

[spurraider21]

ST's search function is down, but i was able to google "spurstalk marginal tax rates spurtacular" and it took me to the thread .

there was an earlier part of the convo that i was having with darrin, where he made a mistake about the marginal rates and then realized and acknowledged it. you for some reason decided that no, he was completely accurate all along . click on any of these posts to go back to the thread for full context

this was his original comment with respect to having a higher marginal tax rate (70%) on income above 10 mil

So, Anderson Cooper would just take home 3.6M of his 12M salary? I don't think so. He'd probably renegotiate his salary to 9.9M and get some other kind of financial incentive.

but the analysis was wrong because he operated under the assumption that the entirety of the 12M would be taxed at 70%. he quickly realized and acknowledged that like an adult. you then decided no he's right all along

Good gawd you want to be spoonfed today. 3.6 M is 30 percent of 12 M. Going down a bracket and finding other options like stock options or other "payments" or something of the sort would allow him to then keep more money on whatever figure it all adds up to be.

that's exactly my point. so you dont know what marginal tax rates are either.

good to know. how does it feel then AOC knows more about tax policy than you do?


DarrinS maybe you can help him out tbh

WTF are you talking about. It's not a hard concept, whatsoever. Good gawd you need a win worse than chump. You're just making up in your mind at this point.

you have no idea how tax brackets work. that's adorable.

let me spoonfeed you, bruh.

lets assume these are the only tax brackets

$0 through $9,999,999 - 20%
$10 mil plus - 50%

if somebody earned a total of 20 million, they would NOT pay 50% tax on their entire salary. their take-home would NOT be 10 mil.

instead, all of their income from 0 through 9,999,999 will be taxed at the lower 20% rate (2 mil in taxes on those earnings). all income EXCEEDING the 10 mil point will be taxed at the full 50% mark (5 mil in taxes on those earnings). so somebody earning 20 mil given the brackets above would pay 7 mil in taxes for an effective tax rate of 35%

you're welcome for the lesson, bruh. i'm glad AOC got you to learn something new today.

Hence why DarrinS was arguing for AC to take his income down below 10M and for me explaining exactly the same damn thing. You need to stop pretending people are making incorrect arguments; that or work on your comprehension. You just come off as desperate for a W, bruh.

A lesson that I already gave to you, bruh.

you make no sense. darrin calculated it as though Cooper would pay the full 70% rate on his entire 12 million salary. hence his claim that cooper would only be able to take home 3.6 million out of 12.

that is objectively incorrect.

[spurraider21]

basically anyone who thinks "if i show less income, i will take home more money after taxes" fundamentally misunderstands how tax brackets work... and that ends up being a talking about among conservatives who argue against the concept of tax brackets

"if they set a new bracket at $200,000, then people will just try to make 199k instead of 201k!"

[Spurminator]

basically anyone who thinks "if i show less income, i will take home more money after taxes" fundamentally misunderstands how tax brackets work... and that ends up being a talking about among conservatives who argue against the concept of tax brackets

"if they set a new bracket at $200,000, then people will just try to make 199k instead of 201k!"

I'm being punished for making more money

Always my favorite talking point/ .

[spurraider21]

I'm being punished for making more money

Always my favorite talking point/ .

they're admittedly lines i would parrot without understanding what the i was talking about... until i actually learned how these things worked. i was probably insufferable as during high school

i actually read "The Way Things Ought To Be" by Medal of Freedom winning Rush Limbaugh and "How To Talk To a Liberal (If You Must)" by Ann Coulter during high school

[Spurtacular]

I wasn't asking you to e the football and/or post all that garble, Lite. I just want you to give me a brief synopsis (a few lines) on marginal tax brackets and why you think the Democrats are so much better in changing the structure.

[spurraider21]

I wasn't asking you to e the football and/or post all that garble, Lite. I just want you to give me a brief synopsis (a few lines) on marginal tax brackets and why you think the Democrats are so much better in changing the structure.

ok. brief synopsis is that my views on things like tax rates changed when i actually learned about how they worked, and that you were a good example of somebody who still has trouble grasping how they work

[Spurtacular]

ok. brief synopsis is that my views on things like tax rates changed when i actually learned about how they worked, and that you were a good example of somebody who still has trouble grasping how they work

Okay, lash out all you want. I just figured you would be interested in a discussion.

[spurraider21]

Okay, lash out all you want. I just figured you would be interested in a discussion.

Always. What would you like to discuss?

[Spurtacular]

Always. What would you like to discuss?

I recall that tax rate kicking in at various dollar amounts on rates starting at said marks. I don't recall exactly what your issue is though.

[spurraider21]

I recall that tax rate kicking in at various dollar amounts on rates starting at said marks. I don't recall exactly what your issue is though.

that wasn't the message you were trying to get across in that previous discussion. if you've come around and learned how the brackets actually work, good on you.

the basic rule is that no matter what the brackets are, you will never take home less money by getting into a higher bracket. you do get diminishing returns, of course, but you never lose money by making more, which is a (frustratingly) common misconception.

so when AOC wants to slap on a 70% for everybody making north of 10 mil, it's fundamentally wrong to say that you take home more money by showing 9.9 mil of income as opposed to 10.1 mil. if you have "come to terms" with that, then we're good (doesnt mean you have to agree that the tax would be a good thing)

and circling back to how this came up, before i understood how the brackets worked (and made the very mistake that now frustrates me to see), i thought tax brackets were inherently bad and thought a flat tax made more sense. i no longer believe that because i've learned how taxes actually work. my views change as i learn.

[Spurtacular]

that wasn't the message you were trying to get across in that previous discussion. if you've come around and learned how the brackets actually work, good on you.

the basic rule is that no matter what the brackets are, you will never take home less money by getting into a higher bracket. you do get diminishing returns, of course, but you never lose money by making more, which is a (frustratingly) common misconception.

so when AOC wants to slap on a 70% for everybody making north of 10 mil, it's fundamentally wrong to say that you take home more money by showing 9.9 mil of income as opposed to 10.1 mil. if you have "come to terms" with that, then we're good (doesnt mean you have to agree that the tax would be a good thing)

Okay, so there's a common misconception out there. I'm still not for the government doing nothing and feeling en led to the lion's share of person's earnings. You may recall being taught in your econ classes about how excessive taxation is waste. Somehow, liberals love to ignore this very basic reality.

[spurraider21]

Okay, so there's a common misconception out there. I'm still not for the government doing nothing and feeling en led to the lion's share of person's earnings. You may recall being taught in your econ classes about how excessive taxation is waste. Somehow, liberals love to ignore this very basic reality.

right, the laffer curve. the issue with the laffer curve is that it is incredibly vague and there's no real mathematical analysis determining what the optimum tax rates are. its entirely conceptual. and of course, optimum tax rates would differ based on income level.

assuming flat rates with no brackets, just for the sake of argument, if i'm earning 100k a year but paying 70% taxes on all that money, its not worth my while to only bring home 30k. but if i'm earning 200 mil a year gross and paying 70% taxes on all that money, i'm still bringing home 60 mil net. hardly causing me financial strain, and still worth my while.

i dont think the US is anywhere near being on the "wrong side" of the laffer curve

[Spurtacular]

right, the laffer curve. the issue with the laffer curve is that it is incredibly vague and there's no real mathematical analysis determining what the optimum tax rates are. its entirely conceptual. and of course, optimum tax rates would differ based on income level.

assuming flat rates with no brackets, just for the sake of argument, if i'm earning 100k a year but paying 70% taxes on all that money, its not worth my while to only bring home 30k. but if i'm earning 200 mil a year gross and paying 70% taxes on all that money, i'm still bringing home 60 mil net. hardly causing me financial strain, and still worth my while.

i dont think the US is anywhere near being on the "wrong side" of the laffer curve

It's not a curve; it's just a basic principle. Taxes are to be taken out to be paid on services the private sector won't perform. Any excess is considered waste.

One could argue socialism is better than the crony capitalism we have now; but I'm still not overlooking the inevitability of grand waste and that what we will have is crony socialism.

[DarrinS]

There aren't enough millionaires and billionaires to cover their crazy plans. At least Bernie was honest enough to admit that taxes on middle class would have to be increased.

[Spurtacular]

There aren't enough millionaires and billionaires to cover their crazy plans. At least Bernie was honest enough to admit that taxes on middle class would have to be increased.

Pocohantas shut down when she was asked how she was going to pay for the plans she stole from Bernie.

[spurraider21]

It's not a curve; it's just a basic principle. Taxes are to be taken out to be paid on services the private sector won't perform. Any excess is considered waste.

One could argue socialism is better than the crony capitalism we have now; but I'm still not overlooking the inevitability of grand waste and that what we will have is crony socialism.

socialism and capitalism are on a spectrum. we dont have to go all-in in either direction.

[Spurtacular]

socialism and capitalism are on a spectrum. we dont have to go all-in in either direction.

That's oversimplified. Our means of production is largely capitalistic / crony capitalistic. Our compulsory taxation and programs are largely crony socialism with a lot of waste. I don't want to expand upon that waste.

[spurraider21]

There aren't enough millionaires and billionaires to cover their crazy plans. At least Bernie was honest enough to admit that taxes on middle class would have to be increased.

right. i dont think warren's plan is tenable, tbh... she wants to pin too much of it on employers. it makes more sense to acknowledge that taxes will go up on people but with the understanding that it will be more than offset by their no longer paying premiums/deductibles/copays

[Spurminator]

they're admittedly lines i would parrot without understanding what the i was talking about... until i actually learned how these things worked. i was probably insufferable as during high school

i actually read "The Way Things Ought To Be" by Medal of Freedom winning Rush Limbaugh and "How To Talk To a Liberal (If You Must)" by Ann Coulter during high school

I got into Coulter and D'Souza for a while after 9/11. Watched a lot of Hannity too and listened to his radio show. At some point I noticed my intelligence was being insulted. It's troubling that so many people never reach that point.

[ElNono]

Like all the people and companies moving to Texas from California?

This is a fairly common dig, but the numbers don't back it up.

[ElNono]

Also, what if it's not a 2 party election, like there are 4 people and no one gets more than 30% of the vote? So someone gets elected with 30% of the popular vote and somehow that's more democratic than someone getting 49% of the popular vote?

I feel like the dems look at a system historically decided by the EC and then magically apply popular vote as if the election and turnout wouldn't be totally different under that totally different system - as if the dems could just remove the results of the EC and cherry pick the popular vote totals in those cases.

You can do a runoff with the top two candidates... I mean, this isn't new.

[ElNono]

His campaign knew what it was doing when it was hiding him from public appearances as much as humanly possible, but now that he has ground to make up in the polls they can’t hide him anymore and it’s a disaster

I called it.

Me

The sooner this guy has a stroke, the better the Dems will be in figuring out their candidate.

[DarrinS]

Like all the people and companies moving to Texas from California?

This is a fairly common dig, but the numbers don't back it up.

https://www.city-journal.org/red-sta...phic-advantage

[ElNono]

https://www.city-journal.org/red-sta...phic-advantage

That's great, but anecdotal. Comparing 10 years worth of blue state domination to last year and calling it a trend, well, you buy that.

The numbers still don't back it up. I've been hearing about the mass exodus of people away from California for years on end, yet, their population keeps going up and up, and no more or less than Texas.

I would agree, however, that there's a demographic shift. It's simply more expensive to live in cities that give better salaries, so there's certainly class turnaround.