-Spurs fan since 2003, I remember. Spurs had cap to sign LA but he had other options. He chose the Spurs because they were a contender.
-Re-signing DDR and keeping him, would still give the Spurs at least $40+ million in cap for 2022. I specifically said that they should re-sign him to trade him but you seemed to focus on him tying up cap space during the season, when of course, it doesn't matter if they move him before the 2021 off season.
-If Utah and New York have $50 million in cap space and are both pursuing a top free agent, Utah likely won't even get a meeting. Players pick teams as much as they pick the city and business opportunities. Thus big markets have an inherent advantage. Have you watched the last two off seasons play out?
-The whole point of re-building is to be bad and obtain high picks over the course of several seasons. Getting the 11th pick this season sure as doesn't cut it. Not sure why you want to reinvest in a team that is consistently been bad this season.
The bigger question is why you want to improve a team that needs to be tore down and rebuilt. Its definitely going to take more than one season to fix all of this teams issue.
-So you're speculating that teams are asking for a pick for Gay? Spurs have zero incentive to do that. They could just keep him and buy him out during next season.
-Not valuable to you but considered valuable to GMs and front offices, so pretty damn valuable.
Mills is absolutely expendable and his deal is way more than role players like him should get IMO. He’s been solid this year, but he’s not someone that should be kept if they rebuild IMO. He should have positive value for the reasons you mentioned and I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if SA moved him.
Last edited by DPG21920; 03-08-2020 at 10:38 PM.
I think he'd get some interest but I doubt the Spurs move him because of his leadership. Its not a great reason but that's probably their thinking.
It is absolutely amazing that you are so deeply in denial about the Spurs having to be able to pay Aldridge. The Spurs were able to sign Aldridge because they were able to pay him. That is a fact, no matter how much anybody tries to deny it.
For the Spurs to be able to sign free agents, they have to be able to pay said free sgents. Really. That is a fact. It is true. No amount of denial is going to change that.
One conclusion which follows, is that it isn't a good idea to throw the team's money away on trash. Such as:
-Re-signing DDR and keeping him, ...
DDR has a player option for $27.7 million next season. Have you forgotten?
He avoids 3pt shots like he's allergic to them. You'll recall.
He has other deficiencies, as well. We know.
... I specifically said that they should re-sign him to trade him ...
Resign DDR for how much, and trade him to whom? Be specific, since you mention specifics.
If you offer him less than $27.7 million next year, he will refuse it and exercise the player option. So how much do you intend to offer him?
And again, to whom do you intend to trade him?
... but you seemed to focus on him tying up cap space during the season, when of course, it doesn't matter if they move him before the 2021 off season.
I am focused on not tying up the team's money on trash, at any time.
-If Utah and New York have $50 million in cap space and are both pursuing a top free agent, Utah likely won't even get a meeting. ...
And if the Spurs have $60 million in cap space, and NY has $7 million, what then? Do tell.
At one 1st round pick per year, filling out an NBA roster with such picks will take 15 years. This is your plan - to pursue greatness by sucking ass for 15 years?-The whole point of re-building is to be bad and obtain high picks over the course of several seasons. ...
I can't help but hope there might be better plans to ponder. Something a Spurs fan might live long enough to see, would be nice.
Ok, you don't want Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Domantas Sabonis, Klay Thompson, or any other player who was drafted 11th. Noted.Getting the 11th pick this season sure as doesn't cut it. ...
Not sure why you want to reinvest in a team that is consistently been bad this season.
You're the one who wants to pay DDR the supermax.
The bigger question is why you want to improve a team that needs to be tore down and rebuilt. Its definitely going to take more than one season to fix all of this teams issue.
My idea that the team needs improvement is based on them sucking.
-So you're speculating that teams are asking for a pick for Gay? Spurs have zero incentive to do that. They could just keep him and buy him out during next season.
No, you were speculating the Spurs could receive a pick in a Gay trade. They can't. His contract is too over-priced. Any pick would have to go the other way, as an inducement.
-Not valuable to you but considered valuable to GMs and front offices, so pretty damn valuable.
First round picks aren't as valuable as people think.
Totally agree.
Aldridge for Musa, Allen and Prince, Spurs receives two wings and a good young center. Bkl will be led by Irving / Durant / Daj, this will cause kids to lose space, but Spencer and Levert would never be negotiated before seeing the healthy core working. For a team that is likely to go all in, Aldridge in its version streetch4 can work(Irving / Temple / Durant / Aldridge / DAJ with Levert / Spencer and some ring hunters on the bench)
-You say that firsts aren't that valuable then bring up all of the good players taken with the 11th pick historically.
- Since when does "several years" mean 15 year. Point is that they need to strip the roster down, be in the lottery for 3 seasons and then try and rebuild this team into a contender.
- Derozan has a player option, I mentioned that the spurs should extend him, that means that the years are added onto his existing deal. I also mentioned Orlando in the article as a team that has had interest in him.
-I am basing the Spurs getting seconds for Gay off a report that came out before the deadline, as well as John Hollinger and Nate Duncan mentioning on their a couple of their podcasts that Gay would be a player that teams could target given his contact extending past this season.
You're speculating that the Spurs have to give a pick to get off of him. There is nothing to suggest that is even true. Worst case scenario, the Spurs can just carry him into next season and waive him if they can't trade him. No pick has to be surrendered.
-You're also keep saying that firsts aren't that valuable but don't mention why you think that, despite them clearly being valuable to teams...
-The Utah, New York scenario doesn't take into account that in the scenario that you mentioned a star player can agree to the Knicks and the team could orchestrate a sign-and trade. So basically it wouldn't matter whether Utah has the cap space or not if the player doesn't want to go there. Really that simple.
Stars can dictate where they want to go, regardless of whether the team they want has cap or not. That puts teams like the Spurs or Utah at a huge disadvantage -even if they have cap.
-Again, why improve a team that is this fatally flawed? It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
-You say that firsts aren't that valuable then bring up all of the good players taken with the 11th pick historically.
You're the one who said the 11th pick wasn't good enough.
Did you change your mind?
First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are. For one thing, a first round pick is not anywhere close to being worth a proven veteran.
Which would you rather have - the 3rd pick a year from now, or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? Myself, I'd take Alexander. Perhaps we disagree.
- Since when does "several years" mean 15 year. Point is that they need to strip the roster down, be in the lottery for 3 seasons and then try and rebuild this team into a contender.
Ah, three seasons, you think. To replace which three players on the current roster, and make the team a contender again? Any suggestions?
What's wrong with starting now to try to rebuild the team into a contender? Why wait three years before even trying? Not that you meant that, but, well.
I think there's no better time than the present.
Also, I think they need more than 3 players. They need to be looking seriously, now, to replace all the following on the roster.
Forbes (lack of defensive ability)
Belinelli (age)
DDR (lack of constructive presence)
Mills (defensive liability)
Gay (age)
LMA (age)
Metu (failure to develop into a useful player)
Eubanks (ditto)
Murray, White, Walker, Lyles, Poeltl, Johnson, Weatherspoon, and Samanic are all worth a longer look, as far as I can tell.
- Derozan has a player option, I mentioned that the spurs should extend him, that means that the years are added onto his existing deal. I also mentioned Orlando in the article as a team that has had interest in him.
DDR's existing deal is for $27.7 million per. So you want to extend him for, what, three more years at $27.7M per? To trade him. To Orlando.
Are you sure your mind hasn't floated away into the clouds? I have to tell you, that idea looks odd to me. Like, really odd.
Why can't Orlando negotiate their own deal with DDR, if they want him? Did their front office all drop dead from the Wuhan?
-I am basing the Spurs getting seconds for Gay off a report that came out before the deadline, as well as John Hollinger and Nate Duncan mentioning on their a couple of their podcasts that Gay would be a player that teams could target given his contact extending past this season.
You're speculating that the Spurs have to give a pick to get off of him. ...
That is wrong. I was telling you why the idea of getting picks for Gay is unrealistic. The reason why is basic. He is not worth $14M.
Guys on podcasts shoot the breeze about all kinds of stuff. We know that Gay did not get traded, and it's easy to see why not.
... There is nothing to suggest that is even true. ...
Gay's contract is true, and it says $14M, and he is not worth that.
-You're also keep saying that firsts aren't that valuable but don't mention why you think that, despite them clearly being valuable to teams...
I keep saying exactly what I keep saying. First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are.
-The Utah, New York scenario doesn't take into account that in the scenario that you mentioned a star player can agree to the Knicks and the team could orchestrate a sign-and trade. ...
I apparently have to remind you, the Utah-NY thing is your scenario. Not mine.
There is a good free agent available. The Spurs have $60 million in cap space. The 76ers are over the cap by $20 million. Discuss.
So basically it wouldn't matter whether Utah has the cap space or not if the player doesn't want to go there. Really that simple.
My friend, it does matter to the player who wants to make money playing basketball, whether a team can pay him. The pros play for money. That is why they are called pros. It's really that simple.
The Spurs cannot sign free agents if they do not have the money to pay those free agents. That is true, and no amount of talk is going to get around that simple fact of reality.
Stars can dictate where they want to go, regardless of whether the team they want has cap or not. ...
Your point is...?
I'm still not the one who wants to give DDR a billion $ over the next 30 years. That seems to be you. The smart thing to do about DDR is to let him walk, as soon as he will. Devote the team's time and resources to other matters.-Again, why improve a team that is this fatally flawed? It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
-The 11th pick is not good enough to rebuild around, the Spurs need to tear down and rebuild over the next three seasons.You're the one who said the 11th pick wasn't good enough.
Did you change your mind?
First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are. For one thing, a first round pick is not anywhere close to being worth a proven veteran.
Which would you rather have - the 3rd pick a year from now, or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? Myself, I'd take Alexander. Perhaps we disagree.
Ah, three seasons, you think. To replace which three players on the current roster, and make the team a contender again? Any suggestions?
What's wrong with starting now to try to rebuild the team into a contender? Why wait three years before even trying? Not that you meant that, but, well.
I think there's no better time than the present.
Also, I think they need more than 3 players. They need to be looking seriously, now, to replace all the following on the roster.
Forbes (lack of defensive ability)
Belinelli (age)
DDR (lack of constructive presence)
Mills (defensive liability)
Gay (age)
LMA (age)
Metu (failure to develop into a useful player)
Eubanks (ditto)
Murray, White, Walker, Lyles, Poeltl, Johnson, Weatherspoon, and Samanic are all worth a longer look, as far as I can tell.
DDR's existing deal is for $27.7 million per. So you want to extend him for, what, three more years at $27.7M per? To trade him. To Orlando.
Are you sure your mind hasn't floated away into the clouds? I have to tell you, that idea looks odd to me. Like, really odd.
Why can't Orlando negotiate their own deal with DDR, if they want him? Did their front office all drop dead from the Wuhan?
That is wrong. I was telling you why the idea of getting picks for Gay is unrealistic. The reason why is basic. He is not worth $14M.
Guys on podcasts shoot the breeze about all kinds of stuff. We know that Gay did not get traded, and it's easy to see why not.
Gay's contract is true, and it says $14M, and he is not worth that.
I keep saying exactly what I keep saying. First round picks are not as valuable as people think they are.
I apparently have to remind you, the Utah-NY thing is your scenario. Not mine.
There is a good free agent available. The Spurs have $60 million in cap space. The 76ers are over the cap by $20 million. Discuss.
My friend, it does matter to the player who wants to make money playing basketball, whether a team can pay him. The pros play for money. That is why they are called pros. It's really that simple.
The Spurs cannot sign free agents if they do not have the money to pay those free agents. That is true, and no amount of talk is going to get around that simple fact of reality.
Your point is...?
I'm still not the one who wants to give DDR a billion $ over the next 30 years. That seems to be you. The smart thing to do about DDR is to let him walk, as soon as he will. Devote the team's time and resources to other matters.
-The Utah-NY was my scenario but you tweaked it, re-read you post
-If you read the article, I suggested that an extension was possible. I never said a three year extension and I never said that they should.
-The point of getting high draft picks is to build around them. Murray, Poeltl, Walker, KJ, Samanic, and possibly White could also be apart of the next good team.
-Again, your speculating. Duncan and Hollinger are actually plugged into the league. , Hollinger worked with the Grizzlies for the better part of a decade. He also pretty much invented advanced stats in the NBA. I'd trust them over you tbh.
-This is getting increasingly silly. I flat-out disagree with you, you disagree with me. Whatever, it is what it is. We're clearly not going to convince each other of anything. I won't be responding anymore.
Okay, which pick is good enough to rebuild around? And how do you know in advance?
-The Utah-NY was my scenario but you tweaked it, re-read you post
I didn't tweak your scenario.
-The point of getting high draft picks is to build around them. Murray, Poeltl, Walker, KJ, Samanic, and possibly White could also be apart of the next good team.
Yeah, one hopes draft picks might become NBA players. And?
-Again, your speculating. ...
It is not speculation that Gay's contract says $14 M. It's a judgment call whether he's worth that, but I say no, and the fact that he didn't get traded implies no.
...
Duncan and Hollinger are actually plugged into the league. , Hollinger worked with the Grizzlies for the better part of a decade. He also pretty much invented advanced stats in the NBA. I'd trust them over you tbh.
Okay, so where's that big midseason Rudy Gay trade, that was supposed to fetch a draft pick?
Didn't happen.
It certainly is silly to persist in denial that professional ball players play for money. If the Spurs are going to sign free agents, they have to have the money available. It's true. Why on earth evade that point?-This is getting increasingly silly. I flat-out disagree with you, you disagree with me. Whatever, it is what it is. We're clearly not going to convince each other of anything. I won't be responding anymore.
The Spurs have been so tight on cap space - with this losing team - that in trying to work a deal for a mid-tier free agent, Morris, they lost Bertans last summer. The money really does matter. Why not simply admit it?
It's in fashion on this forum for people to whine and cry about how nobody likes San Antonio, and no free agents will come here, boo-hoo, poor us, but it might be a factor whether the Spurs are able to pay them.
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