Texas response to Corona virus

[DMC]

what is your story with bonnerific?


or would you rather talk about that in private?

Don't have a story with him. He was hyper-agitated all the time, got banned for it. Now he's a running joke when someone get's salty and melts down, like you're doing.

[clambake]

you and i know

why did you edit your post about bonnerific?

[DMC]

you and i know

why did you edit your post about bonnerific?

I know. You don't.

It was over your head. I decided to keep it simple so you don't get lost (like you are now).

[clambake]

I know. You don't.

It was over your head. I decided to keep it simple so you don't get lost (like you are now).

this place is political bickering at its best and you have let it rob you of honesty. damn

for another guy

[ElNono]

I contacted South Texas Blood & Tissue Center of my own volition after they publicly announced they were taking part in the FDA program and were looking for suspected or confirmed cases in the time frame that I was ill.

Thanks, so it's more the latter than the former. Will try to read up about this program, haven't heard of such a thing here in the West.

[ElNono]

Not true.

Do tell.

[ElNono]

They don't have to be sourced from China. US companies manufacture reagents in China, and China isn't releasing these to the US without days worth of "new" do entation to meet requirements (supposedly because early kits released to other countries were bogus and China has tightened the noose, but also because China trusts US companies' products more than their own).

Why do you think that is? And why do you think the DPA hasn't been used to force them to manufacture them here?

[DMC]

this place is political bickering at its best and you have let it rob you of honesty. damn

for another guy

This place is scoreboarding just like the NBA forum. There are a few here who can have a discussion without proselytizing their party, but very few, and I know who those are. I don't waste time with the others, but I do engage in the back and forth just like in the NBA forum.

The bickering here is far from "best". It's copypasta from other sites mostly.

[DMC]

Do tell.

States often choose to develop their own tests to save both kit costs and avoid regulatory issues associated with 3rd party kits (like lab temperature requirements, que times, chemistry qualities, NIST accuracy and precision requirements). LDTs (lab developed tests) are used all across the US, but some states prefer to outsource due to either manpower/time constraint or because they have fatter wallets.

[DMC]

Why do you think that is? And why do you think the DPA hasn't been used to force them to manufacture them here?

Same reason they manufacture other things abroad - more economically feasible. We've created an environment in the US that's almost caustic to manufacturing, like we don't want it here. We laud China for efficiency during a crisis, ignoring how they got there. We don't want to be like China.

You cannot just "manufacture here". There are many roadblocks to overcome and red tape to cut through before you can do that. The manufacturing has to be profitable for the company, else it has to be subsidized by the taxpayer. Forcing them to manufacture here means, when this epidemic has subsided, someone is left holding the bag. What has changed to lure manufacturing from cheaper countries with lower EPA requirements, other than the epidemic? Companies don't build to satisfy the peak demand in a crisis. They couldn't operate normally if they did.

[ElNono]

States often choose to develop their own tests to save both kit costs and avoid regulatory issues associated with 3rd party kits (like lab temperature requirements, que times, chemistry qualities, NIST accuracy and precision requirements). LDTs (lab developed tests) are used all across the US, but some states prefer to outsource due to either manpower/time constraint or because they have fatter wallets.

Except that the tests alone are not sufficient. You need staffing to do the tests, and especially you need associated resources like re-agents, PPE, otherwise the tests themselves can't be administered and are basically useless until the supplies show up.

And we all know the lack of supplies has been a major torn on the side in this whole thing, with the Federal government certainly doing confiscation of supplies:

But what I’m more interested in are reports of federal authorities confiscating physical shipments en route to states, local governments or regional hospital systems. The most publicized case of this came at some point in March when, according to Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker (R), a shipment of 3 million masks ordered through BJ’s Wholesale was seized by federal authorities in the Port of New York. Baker did not say which agency confiscated the goods or under what authority. That incident was what led to the widely reported and successful effort to fly goods in from China using the New England Patriots jet.

Another case happened just yesterday when the top county official in Somerset County, New Jersey, Freeholder Director Shanel Robinson, announced that a shipment of 35,000 masks had been confiscated by federal officials. According to this report in the Franklin Reporter and Advocate, “As of early in the afternoon of April 3, Robinson said that the county was told the surgical face masks would be delivered that day, but that the federal government had taken the N-95 masks.”

It’s not entirely clear from the report. But this does not sound like the federal government outbid the county or forced it to sell but rather that the physical shipment was interdicted and seized by federal authorities. Robinson said that the vendor didn’t say which agency confiscated the shipment.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...-and-hospitals

The point being, how is this still not a coordinated effort by the federal government? Why are states and counties on their own when it comes to securing these resources?

We're still apparently not ready to do massive testing, the kind we need to safely reopen.

[ElNono]

Same reason they manufacture other things abroad - more economically feasible. We've created an environment in the US that's almost caustic to manufacturing, like we don't want it here. We laud China for efficiency during a crisis, ignoring how they got there. We don't want to be like China.

You cannot just "manufacture here". There are many roadblocks to overcome and red tape to cut through before you can do that. The manufacturing has to be profitable for the company, else it has to be subsidized by the taxpayer. Forcing them to manufacture here means, when this epidemic has subsided, someone is left holding the bag. What has changed to lure manufacturing from cheaper countries with lower EPA requirements, other than the epidemic? Companies don't build to satisfy the peak demand in a crisis. They couldn't operate normally if they did.

That's exactly what laws like the DPA were written for, to cut right through the red tape and the profit motive. There's many provisions to the law, including the confiscation part mentioned in my previous post but also to mandate companies to shift production lines to manufacture necessary items, even if it's not entirely profitable for the company (the DPA does mandate the federal government to compensate the company though). Unfortunately this administration has been reluctant to use that provision, and it costs lives.

[ElNono]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

[CosmicCowboy]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.

[DMC]

That's exactly what laws like the DPA were written for, to cut right through the red tape and the profit motive. There's many provisions to the law, including the confiscation part mentioned in my previous post but also to mandate companies to shift production lines to manufacture necessary items, even if it's not entirely profitable for the company (the DPA does mandate the federal government to compensate the company though). Unfortunately this administration has been reluctant to use that provision, and it costs lives.

Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.

[DMC]

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.

Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.

[ChumpDumper]

Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.

Sounds like an argument for a stockpile 20 years ago.

[ChumpDumper]

Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.

Or they could just, you know, do some of those things when they are in office. Clinton started the stockpile after reading a novel.

[DMC]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

[DMC]

Sounds like an argument for a stockpile 20 years ago.

You cannot stockpile masks for 20 years, I have N95s in my garage still in the package that the rubber bands have disintegrated from. Much of this stuff has a very finite shelf life.

It's more of a choice for preparedness vs lifestyle. Do we elect leaders based on promises or preparedness of promises of improved lifestyle?

How much have you (rhetorically speaking) personally prepared for it? I have masks, but since I am part of society, me being protected doesn't really protect me from the economical fallout.

[DMC]

Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

This doesn't even account for time to get a purchase order request signed off at government levels.

[ChumpDumper]

You cannot stockpile masks for 20 years, I have N95s in my garage still in the package that the rubber bands have disintegrated from. Much of this stuff has a very finite shelf life.

You don't think that was considered 20 years ago when the civilian stockpile started? Or even further back with military stockpiles?

[DMC]

You don't think that was considered 20 years ago when the civilian stockpile started? Or even further back with military stockpiles?

I know it was. Programs get pilfered to support other programs. You want to give Iran billions, it has to come from somewhere.

And it's notable that you cut out most of my response to you. It illustrates that responding to you is a futile endeavor. You'll never change.

[ChumpDumper]

I know it was.

Then don't act like it wasn't.

Programs get pilfered to support other programs.

Not necessarily.

[DMC]

Then don't act like it wasn't.

Not necessarily.

vs




Even the 3M 6001 cartridges are exponentially better than the N95, but overkill and all. The Army loves overkill.