Texas response to Corona virus

[ChumpDumper]

vs




Even the 3M 6001 cartridges are exponentially better than the N95, but overkill and all. The Army loves overkill.

The military had five million N95 masks stockpiled they gave to HHS. I'm sure they still have a lot for their own use. Why pretend none of this is possible?

[DMC]

The military had five million N95 masks stockpiled they gave to HHS.

"The military had" just means "the feds had".

[ChumpDumper]

"The military had" just means "the feds had".

Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced Tuesday that the military will open up its stockpile of medical supplies to back up civilian public health agencies bracing for an outbreak that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated could affect more than 100 million Americans.

Up to five million N95 breathing masks and 2,000 ventilators are on tap, as requested by the Health and Human Services Department, Esper said, for distribution to civilian medical providers.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...ian-hospitals/

Whatever the source, it's a stockpile.

[DMC]

Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced Tuesday that the military will open up its stockpile of medical supplies to back up civilian public health agencies bracing for an outbreak that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated could affect more than 100 million Americans.

Up to five million N95 breathing masks and 2,000 ventilators are on tap, as requested by the Health and Human Services Department, Esper said, for distribution to civilian medical providers.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...ian-hospitals/

Whatever the source, it's a stockpile.

So the feds were prepared.

[ChumpDumper]

And it's not like the stockpile wasn't at one time almost ten times as large as it was going into this pandemic.

The national stockpile used to be somewhat more robust. In 2006, Congress provided supplemental funds to add 104 million N95 masks and 52 million surgical masks in an effort to prepare for a flu pandemic.

We've already done all this. Why pretend we didn't?

[ChumpDumper]

So the feds were prepared.

No. See above.

Unless you think 12 million is the same as 104+ million.

[DMC]

And it's not like the stockpile wasn't at one time almost ten times as large as it was going into this pandemic.

The national stockpile used to be somewhat more robust. In 2006, Congress provided supplemental funds to add 104 million N95 masks and 52 million surgical masks in an effort to prepare for a flu pandemic.

We've already done all this. Why pretend we didn't?

That number pales in comparison to what could be needed in a serious outbreak. Government scientists in 2015 estimated that a severe flu outbreak infecting 20 to 30 percent of the population would require at least 1.7 billion of the N95 respirators

From same article.

[DMC]

No. See above.

Unless you think 12 million is the same as 104+ million.

Unless you think 104 million is arbitrarily "prepared" because it's a higher number, see above.

[ChumpDumper]

That number pales in comparison to what could be needed in a serious outbreak. Government scientists in 2015 estimated that a severe flu outbreak infecting 20 to 30 percent of the population would require at least 1.7 billion of the N95 respirators

From same article.

So you agree 12 million is less adequate than 104+ million in a stockpile?

[ChumpDumper]

Unless you think 104 million is arbitrarily "prepared" because it's a higher number, see above.

Would it be more prepared or less prepared than 12 million in you opinion?

[DMC]

So you agree 12 million is less adequate than 104+ million in a stockpile?

But after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.

Weren't the Dems in charge then?

Where's the threads highlighting the outcry from then?

Adequate is adequate, there's not more or less. If you need 12 feet of rope to reach something, 8 feet isn't more adequate than 3 feet. You still cannot reach it.

[DMC]

Would it be more prepared or less prepared than 12 million in you opinion?

If you need 1.2 billion, it's a moot point.

[ElNono]

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.

Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.

The incentive is the profit margin, let's not pretend it's anything else. I would even go ahead and say it might be unprofitable to do them here, but THAT is the point of emergency laws like the DPA, and since government is already doing the free thing, might aswell spend the money on stuff we need.

The WHO tests were perfectly fine, and plenty of countries do a whole lot of testing, but we 'decided' that corporate cronyism was more valuable than saving lives. The incompetence is frankly disgusting and deadly.

More troublesome is that, after that fact, this isn't being coordinated. Instead we have everybody running for the hills on their own. So it wasn't just incompetent to start, it continues to be.

Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.

Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

Apparently that's not the case at all. See:

Ohio’s Mike DeWine, a Republican, said there were technical issues.

“Our big problem today,“ he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press, “I could probably double, maybe even triple testing in Ohio virtually overnight, if the FDA would prioritize companies that are putting a slightly different formula together for the extraction reagent kit. And that’s, it’s — if the FDA would do that -- we have a shortage, worldwide shortage of some of the materials that go into this. So, we really need help — if anybody in the FDA is watching, this would really take our, take our capacity up.”


BTW, this is a good read and includes more quotes of what the federal government says vs what the governors say. It's tone deaf, and pointing fingers instead of working together:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...testing-194340

But this is the hazard of not coordinating, and now we're planning to reopen and these guys are still arguing whose fault is it?

[DMC]

But I agree, the dems did a job of preparing.

[ChumpDumper]

But after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.

Weren't the Dems in charge then?

Sure.

Where's the threads highlighting the outcry from then?

I was unaware of it. As were you. Trump was warned to stockpile PPE a few times in the past couple years.

Adequate is adequate, there's not more or less. If you need 12 feet of rope to reach something, 8 feet isn't more adequate than 3 feet. You still cannot reach it.

It's not rope. It is a stockpile of masks.

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

[ChumpDumper]

But I agree, the dems did a job of preparing.

Sure.

Do you agree the Republicans did a job of preparing?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

But I agree, the dems did a job of preparing.

Sure.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you agree the Republicans did a job of preparing?

Yes or no.

[DMC]

The incentive is the profit margin, let's not pretend it's anything else. I would even go ahead and say it might be unprofitable to do them here, but THAT is the point of emergency laws like the DPA, and since government is already doing the free thing, might aswell spend the money on stuff we need.

The WHO tests were perfectly fine, and plenty of countries do a whole lot of testing, but we 'decided' that corporate cronyism was more valuable than saving lives. The incompetence is frankly disgusting and deadly.

More troublesome is that, after that fact, this isn't being coordinated. Instead we have everybody running for the hills on their own. So it wasn't just incompetent to start, it continues to be.





Apparently that's not the case at all. See:

Ohio’s Mike DeWine, a Republican, said there were technical issues.

“Our big problem today,“ he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press, “I could probably double, maybe even triple testing in Ohio virtually overnight, if the FDA would prioritize companies that are putting a slightly different formula together for the extraction reagent kit. And that’s, it’s — if the FDA would do that -- we have a shortage, worldwide shortage of some of the materials that go into this. So, we really need help — if anybody in the FDA is watching, this would really take our, take our capacity up.”


BTW, this is a good read and includes more quotes of what the federal government says vs what the governors say. It's tone deaf, and pointing fingers instead of working together:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...testing-194340

But this is the hazard of not coordinating, and now we're planning to reopen and these guys are still arguing whose fault is it?

On the first point - both CC and I mentioned cost of operation and that of course translates to profit margin. Who here ever said "gee, I wish I could find that same thing for more?" You'll buy the cheaper one if the quality is similar and availability is acceptable. Knowing that, corporations owe it to their stockholders to maximize profits. They don't create the tendency for American individuals and companies to choose money over country. They only capitalize on it. I believe Trump ran on a platform of bring manufacturing back to the US instead of outsourcing it even if it meant subsidizing it some.

I don't quite understand your 2nd point. You're not ramping up manufacturing by going to different companies. Apples vs oranges.

[DMC]

Sure.

I was unaware of it. As were you. Trump was warned to stockpile PPE a few times in the past couple years.

It's not rope. It is a stockpile of masks.

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

Didn't Obama have 7 years to do it?

You weren't aware of it. Now you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

Having just come off the H1N1 crisis, why didn't the Obama administration backfill?

[Blake]

But I agree, the dems did a job of preparing.

But you're not into Team Sports

[DMC]

But you're not into Team Sports

But your wife was.

[Blake]

But your wife was.

I never talk about sex lives here. That's all you guys

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't Obama have 7 years to do it?

Yes.

Didn't Trump have 3?

You weren't aware of it. Now you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

Having just come off the H1N1 crisis, why didn't the Obama administration backfill?

I have no idea.

Why didn't Trump after multiple warnings?

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

Do you agree the Republicans did a job of preparing?

[DMC]

The bottom line is a country has only so much buffer for crisis. In your own personal life, you have only so much buffer for crisis. If we or if you experience a life altering event that soaks up that buffer, you could easily hindsight yourself into re ation about the buffer size, but the fact is there are many things we could die from and we decided at some point that building our individual portfolios was more important than building a nest egg of PPE, or maintaining 330 million people supply of life saving materials to be used in parallel.

Could be better, could be worse. It is what it is. Feds have not done a great job preparing for this yet many here want them running national healthcare.