Bulls: The Last Dance do entary

[Dirks_Finale]

I love that Laimbeer is owning the handshake incident. Not sure why Isiah is Playing victim. He Pippen, MJ Laimbeer etc are all assholes. Own it. HOW can he say they would do it differently when Bill just said he wouldn't...

Zeke played the victim on his racist comments he echoed from Rodman many years ago. Just who he is.

[lefty]

Barkley or Malone

Take your pick

Tim Duncan

[lefty]

I'm no Barkley apologist, but are we forgetting he had the height of a 2 guard and managed to out board 7 foot centers on a nightly basis? He did more with less.

I’m not questioning his talent and versatility
Fantastic player

But as I said a sore loser

At least he called out a ref one night in front of Jordan for his special treatment
Of course he got a T for that

[JamStone]

Just to be clear, I didn’t watch any of the Last Dance episodes and I don’t know all the subsequent quote from all parties since. The stuff I’ve said is from my own recollection and my own opinion without the context of the do entary or accompanying quotes.

As far as Isiah not owning up to not shaking hands, from what I’ve gathered, his regret is tied into his belief that it may be one of the things that kept him off the Dream Team, and maybe some of the negative backlash he received for it. If that wasn’t part of it, I don’t believe he’d show much if any regret. He’s still hurt over being left off of the Dream Team. So if that could have changed by shaking Michael’s hand, I’m assuming he would have. Laimbeer wasn’t going to be on the Dream team either way.

As far as co-signing Rodman, that has been addressed before, I believe even on the Bad Boys 30 for 30 as well. Isiah didn’t agree with Rodman. But Rodman was his teammate, Bird wasn’t. Not having Rodman’s back would have caused a rift in the lockerroom and caused emotional baggage onto a young Dennis, who we all know was emotionally unstable. As leader of those Pistons team, Isiah chose to have his young teammate’s back in order to show solidarity. Just like not shaking Michael’s hand, it was a wrong thing to do but was done for a reason. Rodman put all of his teammate’s in a pickle by making those comments, most of all Isiah because he was the leader and face of the Pistons.

[FrostKing]

Tim Duncan

Weak. You hungover today?

[lefty]

Knicks really needed an Isiah. Too much responsibility on Starks as the main shooter. That is why 1992 Knicks with prime Xavier might have been the best.

Yep
The Knicks were fine with Xman and Mark Jackson
The trade with the LAC was a downgrade

[lefty]

Weak. You hungover today?

Yes

[FrostKing]

Yes

Head spinning all night contemplating how to break MJ-Pippen-Rodman?

I'll give you your precious Lebron. What other 2 do you want

[Bill_Brasky]

Just to be clear, I didn’t watch any of the Last Dance episodes and I don’t know all the subsequent quote from all parties since. The stuff I’ve said is from my own recollection and my own opinion without the context of the do entary or accompanying quotes.

As far as Isiah not owning up to not shaking hands, from what I’ve gathered, his regret is tied into his belief that it may be one of the things that kept him off the Dream Team, and maybe some of the negative backlash he received for it. If that wasn’t part of it, I don’t believe he’d show much if any regret. He’s still hurt over being left off of the Dream Team. So if that could have changed by shaking Michael’s hand, I’m assuming he would have. Laimbeer wasn’t going to be on the Dream team either way.

As far as co-signing Rodman, that has been addressed before, I believe even on the Bad Boys 30 for 30 as well. Isiah didn’t agree with Rodman. But Rodman was his teammate, Bird wasn’t. Not having Rodman’s back would have caused a rift in the lockerroom and caused emotional baggage onto a young Dennis, who we all know was emotionally unstable. As leader of those Pistons team, Isiah chose to have his young teammate’s back in order to show solidarity. Just like not shaking Michael’s hand, it was a wrong thing to do but was done for a reason. Rodman put all of his teammate’s in a pickle by making those comments, most of all Isiah because he was the leader and face of the Pistons.

Honestly, MJ should ing thank the Pistons for pushing him so hard. He wouldn't have become such a great player without them.

I just hate how biased the doc it. Making it seem like poor little Mike didn't provoke and attack people.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Isaiah Thomas spent his entire basketball career being coached by Bobby Knight and Chuck Daly, so of course he has a lot of pride for his team...too much, but it ain’t the worst thing an athlete can do.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Last Dance is a entertaining trip down memory lane.

And then:
Ken Burns Disparages Michael Jordan Docuseries: "Not the Way You Do Good Journalism" -->>
Ken Burns has serious reservations about ESPN docuseries The Last Dance, which focuses on Michael Jordan and his time with the Chicago Bulls.

Talking to The Wall Street Journal, the award-winning do entarian said he has no interest in the 10-part series and frowns upon Jordan's production company, Jump 23, being a partner in the effort.

"I find it the opposite direction of where we need to be going,” Burns told the WSJ. “If you are there influencing the very fact of it getting made, it means that certain aspects that you don’t necessarily want in aren’t going to be in, period."

I'm not a fan of Ken Burn's middle-brow film output, but he does have a point. Jordan has final say-so on what's in the film. That's significant.

It does kind of resonate as MJ/PJ puff piece, doesn't it? More of an infomercial than a do entary.
Maybe there is a no-holds barred do entary to be made about the Jordan years, but this ain't it.

It will be interesting to see how the film portrays Jordan's "retirement."

[scanry]

After watching the last dance, I find Jordan to be a sensitive little . His drive was otherworldly but his emotions were not. I don't think he would've been as successful as he was if they had social media in that era.

[Dirks_Finale]

After watching the last dance, I find Jordan to be a sensitive little . His drive was otherworldly but his emotions were not. I don't think he would've been as successful as he was if they had social media in that era.

He was extremely sensitive. I think Sports Illustrated had reported that MJ's fathers death could be related to his gambling debt. After that, he froze them out for the rest of his career. Journalists were terrified of offending him.

[daslicer]

After watching the last dance, I find Jordan to be a sensitive little . His drive was otherworldly but his emotions were not. I don't think he would've been as successful as he was if they had social media in that era.

I think he would have been as successful if he had social media in his era. Jordan was sick in the head and he would have used the insults he got on social media as motivation. Now I do believe he isn't as well liked if social media existed during his career.

[scanry]

I think he would have been as successful if he had social media in his era. Jordan was sick in the head and he would have used the insults he got on social media as motivation. Now I do believe he isn't as well liked if social media existed during his career.

I'm a big MJ fan but having seen more graceful great players since Michael retired makes me wonder basketball is not everything. I feel Duncan, Kobe and Lebron have had just as stellar a career Michael has had but it's always, was he greater than MJ?

Players need to move and be content with what they had achieved. Michael kept the do entary on ice for 20 years and only wanted to show the world (especially the millenials) after Lebron rang in 2016. That's insecurity right there.

[Bill_Brasky]

I'm a big MJ fan but having seen more graceful great players since Michael retired makes me wonder Basketball is not everything. I feel Duncan, Kobe and Lebron have had just as stellar a career Michael has had but it's always, was he greater than MJ?

Players need to move and be content with what they had achieved. Michael is not because he wanted to show the world only after Lebron rang in 2016.

Yep. Jordan's time is done and he can't accept it. So he suddenly is OK with releasing this footage and do entary now because
....Lebron is threatening to win a le with the Lakers.

[FrostKing]

Based on Pippen's late start in 1998 and eventual poor offensive showing forcing Kukoc in the 2nd fiddle role

Can understand Krause fear and honestly attempt at prolonging Jordan's peak. MJ had one of his finest seasons in 1998

[Neo.]

Both of them had massive egos.

And Jordan was right, Detroit took things too far. And he wasn't only one saying it and to this day, everybody still knows it.

"Those guys were out there trying to hurt people. I used to always tell people when you play the pistons you got to call home and tell your family you love them, just in case you never saw them again"

-Barkley at 9:45

lol so dramatic, just to boost their own era

sure they were dirty as heck, and im sure a few were afraid of receiving a cheap shot here and there, but i guarantee not one person in the nba literally came remotely close to fearing for their lives in a highly controlled game of professional basketball

stuff like this is why younger generations lack respect for previous generations, when they wayyyyyy over-exaggerate crap like this to just to add to their own "mystique" and to crap on younger generations, instead of just being real about it.

[Dirks_Finale]

lol so dramatic, just to boost their own era

sure they were dirty as heck, and im sure a few were afraid of receiving a cheap shot here and there, but i guarantee not one person in the nba literally came remotely close to fearing for their lives in a highly controlled game of professional basketball

stuff like this is why younger generations lack respect for previous generations, when they wayyyyyy over-exaggerate crap like this to just to add to their own "mystique" and to crap on younger generations, instead of just being real about it.

Hyperbole to make a point. Which Barkley often does.

[lefty]

lol so dramatic, just to boost their own era

sure they were dirty as heck, and im sure a few were afraid of receiving a cheap shot here and there, but i guarantee not one person in the nba literally came remotely close to fearing for their lives in a highly controlled game of professional basketball

stuff like this is why younger generations lack respect for previous generations, when they wayyyyyy over-exaggerate crap like this to just to add to their own "mystique" and to crap on younger generations, instead of just being real about it.

Don’t you know????!!!!!!!!


Back in the day, you had machetes and chainsaw waiting for you near the basket.
You had to walk from city to city, planes are for pussies

[KobesAchilles]

It’s been pretty boring so far tbh. Just a lot of revisionist history going on. Can’t blame Mike for doing this to prop up his standings with the younger kids/players but man it makes it seem like Mike was the biggest victim of all time. Krause ended my dynasty The Pistons were a buncha meanies My GM didn’t want me to ruin my career my second year in the league

Now I’m hearing all these things that Jordan had to “overcome.” Dude didn’t overcome . Krause was the best GM in the league. Pistons didn’t shake your hand and I have to hear you whine about it 30 years later? This doc better show Quitting like Pippen. Better show Mike getting stripped by Nick Anderson. i knew this doc was when they made Krause seem like the bad guy in the first two episodes and didn’t say about the cheapest owner in all of sports.

[Dirks_Finale]

It’s been pretty boring so far tbh. Just a lot of revisionist history going on. Can’t blame Mike for doing this to prop up his standings with the younger kids/players but man it makes it seem like Mike was the biggest victim of all time. Krause ended my dynasty The Pistons were a buncha meanies My GM didn’t want me to ruin my career my second year in the league

Now I’m hearing all these things that Jordan had to “overcome.” Dude didn’t overcome . Krause was the best GM in the league. Pistons didn’t shake your hand and I have to hear you whine about it 30 years later? This doc better show Quitting like Pippen. Better show Mike getting stripped by Nick Anderson. i knew this doc was when they made Krause seem like the bad guy in the first two episodes and didn’t say about the cheapest owner in all of sports.

Valid point on Reinsdorf. He was whining because of Jordan's 30+ million asking price late in his career. Like seriously, Jordan made you and the NBA a large sum of money. Stfu and payup. Stop pinching pennies.

Then they get Rose and Reinsdorf predicts 5 more les. Then karma came to collect and they are still bottom feeders 2 decades later.

[FrostKing]

Valid point on Reinsdorf. He was whining because of Jordan's 30+ million asking price late in his career. Like seriously, Jordan made you and the NBA a large sum of money. Stfu and payup. Stop pinching pennies.

Then they get Rose and Reinsdorf predicts 5 more les. Then karma came to collect and they are still bottom feeders 2 decades later.

Reinsdorf is the mastermind in all this. Gets all the credit without any of the blame.

Jordan also signed a long contract that soon became obsolete. Data I saw: in 1996, (MJ + Pippen) were earning 1/5 of Ewing.

[ambchang]

I saw Thomas on ESPN, and he still doesn’t understand why so many players from that time, ing hated his guts. Still hate his guts. Clueless. He was classless then. And he still is now. His excuse for not shaking hands is complete bull . Just shake their ing hands and walk off the court like a champion you idiot.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story?id=29...-1991-playoffs

Gotta love Laimbeer.

[ambchang]

rofl you of all people crying about passive aggressive responses



Kobe - 96 draft - 22yo - 6 ppg jump
Iverson - 96 draft - 25yo - 2.7 ppg jump
Pierce - 98 draft - 23yo - 5.8 ppg jump
McGrady - 97 draft - 21yo - 11.4 ppg jump
Carter - 98 draft - 24yo - 1.9 ppg increase
Stackhouse - 95 draft - 26yo - 6.2 ppg increase
Allen - 96 draft - 25yo - 0.1 ppg decrease

seems like some pretty inconsistent increases, certainly not all a half dozen point increases. and yes, they all entered at such different times, pretty much all within the same 3 year span, all of whom were in development stages of their career as they were still in the first 5 years of their long HOF careers, with the exception of stackhouse who came a whopping 1 year earlier and wasnt quite HOF material like the rest but still a very talented scorer. oh and their ages were all still fairly young and generally close as well.

regardless

im certain tmacs increase had nothing to do with leaving a team that already had vince carter on the wing scoring 26 a game, and going to a team where he could be the #1 scoring option, especially after Grant Hill's career was basically ruined due to injury

speaking of grant hill, im sure his departure from detroit, losing his 26 ppg, and not replacing him with another strong scorer didn't have much effect on why stackhouse's scoring increased

of course the departure of glen rice also couldn't have had any bearing on kobes scoring increase either

iverson had the wonderful pleasure of playing with toni kukoc and larry hughes, a couple decent wing scorers. but hughes was traded away late in the previous year, while kukoc was traded halfway through the 00-01 year. nah, im sure each of their 10-12 ppg contributions didn't need to be replaced by AI taking a couple extra shots. it was definitely the rule changes that helped AI score 2.7 more ppg.

and we've clearly established that its far too illogical to think an exceptionally talented scorer like paul pierce could have a massive scoring increase in his third year in the league, as he has been developing as a player and the coach decided to give him a bigger share of offense

so yep, the single biggest reason for the scoring increases can only logically be chalked up to the rule changes. well done.

Nobody said those factors didn't have impact, just that the perimeter defense rule changes were the main drivers.

And since we are talking about Grant Hill, 00 would've had one more perimeter top 10 scorer if he wasn't hurt. The league clearly went from a paint focused league to a perimeter oriented league that one single year. And why did you even bring up Glen Rice? The guy scored 16ppg the year before, and his place in the offense was filled in by Fox and Fisher.

You sound like that year was the only year marquee players had some half decent scoring teammates traded away.