If the Spurs draft 11th

[objective]

So I've watched some of Saddiq Bey and Devin Vassell, and they look fine.

BUT

I've now watched some Patrick Williams and even though I need to really watch the full games in detail, he looks he might be my guy. The other pro-Williams posters in this thread are onto something.

He has so much that just pops.

One of the youngest college players in the draft, maybe the youngest. The building blocks are there, and not just to be a decent player. At his age, you can tell he can have a great NBA body. Wide shoulders, solid though not great wingspan, just looks real sturdy, solid.

So he has a real NBA body, real size, real length, looks to have capacity for strength, maybe not great hips but very good vertical pop. A couple of dunks he had his head at the rim.

And I love what I see in his pull-up shot. When he squares up, he goes straight up and down and with such balance, it reminded me of young Kawhi. Even before Kawhi was a big time scorer, when he would deliver on his mid-range and his threes, he had that. The balance and sturdiness. And to have that as a freshman, I love it.

Even though he only shot 32% from 3, he did shoot 38.8% in his final 11 games in February and March. PLUS he shot 83.8% from the free throw line. His shot can get faster of course and his attempts weren't high, but based on how he looks shooting, I can believe it coming together very well.

And his ball-handling for his size and age (and role in college) ... it's pretty far along. When you see footage of him doing the 4-5 pnr and delivering to the roll man ... it looks damn good. Lots of turnovers I need to study, but his dribbling might look more under control than Murray at that age, and if he can already execute the pnr on occasion in a 4-5 set up ... I think it can be projectable. I'm not saying he'll be a #1 playmaker or anything like Kawhi, but he looks like a guy who can develop and contribute in ways beyond just being a 3 & D and transition player.

Defensively the critiques that he's not able to cover quick point guards at the point of attack is perfectly fair, but I don't care. Draftniks are way too concerned about wings getting burned by point guards, Saddiq Bey gets the same critique and I think it's misguided. As a Spur fan I'm not looking for a SF to cover Ja Morant or Trae Young or Dame Lillard. They have Murray, the have White, they have Walker.

Just like I wasn't desperate to have a SF like young Kawhi to cover Chris Paul or Mike Conley or Russell Westbrook ... I wanted Kawhi to cover Lebron or Durant etc. I don't care if Williams can't cover Trae Young, I care about him having the size and strength to compete with Giannis or Kawhi or Durant.

The rest of his defense should be a big plus. 1.6 blocks and 1.6 steals per 36, he delivers. Only Freshman or Sop re from a real conference to have a block% above 5 and a steal% at least 2.5

A couple of other things:

Reading up on things, Leonard Hamilton as the FSU coach I see gets heat online for not playing his best players. And I believe it, Williams was a 5 star recruit who didn't start a game. Interestingly, Kabengele never started a game for FSU and was still a late first round pick. In a podcast covering Vassell, the hosts complained about Hamilton's handling of Vassell's minutes. On RealGM Hamilton was compared by a poster to Pop and Dwayne Casey for jerking around young players, lol. To me, that's the kind of thing that makes an impression on me. Murray was poorly coached in college, and I could see Williams being mis-used so he could get over himself.

It's early, but I think I'm on the Williams train in a big way.

So much that I'm already getting pissed at the thought that he'll be off the board before the Spurs can take him.

[cd021]

Vassell. See above. Yes, I would love to get Danny Green back. But not for a #11 pick. Vassell will be a DG, not more. Great value for a contender. Not so much for the Spurs at this point.

If Vassell turns into DG then thats a steal at 11. Generally, the 11th pick is a low rotation player with players like Klay, J.J. Red , Allan Houston, Robert Horry, and Reggie Miller being the only outliers in the last 32 years. (http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-...verall/110509/)

Green is a career 40% 3pt shooter and one of the best wing defenders of the last decade, that's pretty damn good for the 11th pick in a meh draft.

At 19 Y.O, Vassell is plenty young enough to develop and be a key player on the next good Spurs team. He'd be a solid pick there with other interesting options to consider.

[Prime BEEF]

Tyler Bey will never last to the second round. Tankathon has him at #14 on their big board. They have Paul Reed at #15.

Agreed. I think picking him at 11 is to early though. If FO wants Tyler Bey then they’ll have to find a way to trade for another 1st Rd pick. on average he seems to be mocked drafted around the early 20s.

this draft is crazy. But I think he (t. bey) could be the sleeper pick of the draft. I’m curious to see what his actual measurements turn out to be. He’s listed at 6’7” with a 7’ wingspan but I’ve read that he might actually be a little over 6’8”. He is the consensus best defensive player in the draft and is projected to play SF in nba. I think he is a similar player to Otto Porter Jr. but some compare him to the matrix.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Nobody talks about Josh green, i really like him. Good defender, offense is in progress, good athlet with some ball handling qualities... Maybe more an SG than a SF but a good prospect.

he has a pretty good wingspan which would help him with guarding the 3. I like him and Vassell the most for wing guys that might be still available at 11. Nesmith is another guy I like but from the stuff I read about his athleticism and defense not being that great makes me pause.

Okungwu is another guy I like a lot that we don’t have a chance grabbing. Wiseman I also think is gonna be better than a lot of pundits are saying.

[objective]

I watched 7 full Florida State games.

I still like Williams a whole lot, and didn't really change my opinion on the pros.

I did find a negative that might not come across in highlight videos.

He didn't run too hot motorwise all the time and that annoys me, compared to Vassell for instance. Jogging back in transition way too much, costing his team points even, not directly but indirectly. Not running much faster in transition offense when he didn't have the ball.

I'm sure if he hustled and played hard all the time he'd be projected even higher. So ... because he's young and doesn't turn 19 until August, I think it's reasonable to think that he'll be better as a pro. It is possible that his full court speed even when he hustles isn't too great.

So, thinking about it, what is a reasonable floor projection? Ignoring his age and his shooting potential from his free throws?

I could see a floor of Earl Clark or Chris Singleton. Out of the league in 5 years or less.

But those guys were college juniors.

So I still really like Williams.

Vassell looked fine. I like Williams' potential more.

[exstatic]

I watched 7 full Florida State games.

I still like Williams a whole lot, and didn't really change my opinion on the pros.

I did find a negative that might not come across in highlight videos.

He didn't run too hot motorwise all the time and that annoys me, compared to Vassell for instance. Jogging back in transition way too much, costing his team points even, not directly but indirectly. Not running much faster in transition offense when he didn't have the ball.

I'm sure if he hustled and played hard all the time he'd be projected even higher. So ... because he's young and doesn't turn 19 until August, I think it's reasonable to think that he'll be better as a pro. It is possible that his full court speed even when he hustles isn't too great.

So, thinking about it, what is a reasonable floor projection? Ignoring his age and his shooting potential from his free throws?

I could see a floor of Earl Clark or Chris Singleton. Out of the league in 5 years or less.

But those guys were college juniors.

So I still really like Williams.

Vassell looked fine. I like Williams' potential more.

The one thing that you can’t teach is a motor. You either have one, or you don’t.

[duncan2150]

he has a pretty good wingspan which would help him with guarding the 3. I like him and Vassell the most for wing guys that might be still available at 11. Nesmith is another guy I like but from the stuff I read about his athleticism and defense not being that great makes me pause.

Okungwu is another guy I like a lot that we don’t have a chance grabbing. Wiseman I also think is gonna be better than a lot of pundits are saying.

Yes you're right he can play the 3 and you have okoro too, his body is ready for the nba, good defender but he needs to develop a better shooting touch.

Vassell, okoro and green are my wing prospects. I don't get all the hype for Williams but i think it's about the upside. The tools are There but he is less ready than the three above imo.

Interesting take by objective, what do you Think about the one on one defense of williams or vassell after watching multiple games ? Thanks

The one thing that you can’t teach is a motor. You either have one, or you don’t.

+1

[pad300]

in terms of sleepers and Danny Green's, Abdoulaye N'doye looks very good to me at #41.

[objective]

Interesting take by objective, what do you Think about the one on one defense of williams or vassell after watching multiple games ? Thanks

I think they're both at least fine. I would expect them to be at least average defenders. And I could see them both being good defenders. Williams has strength and vertical pop but only decent length.

Williams a little slower as far as covering quick guards ... but the games I watched didn't feature a lot of big time perimeter scorers.

I see them both being able to defend game 1.

[duncan2150]

I think they're both at least fine. I would expect them to be at least average defenders. And I could see them both being good defenders. Williams has strength and vertical pop but only decent length.

Williams a little slower as far as covering quick guards ... but the games I watched didn't feature a lot of big time perimeter scorers.

I see them both being able to defend game 1.

Thanks

[tim_duncan_fan]

The one thing that you can’t teach is a motor. You either have one, or you don’t.

What does this mean for Luka?

[exstatic]

What does this mean for Luka?

It means he likely won’t reach his ceiling. That ceiling is s pretty damn high, though. Missing it could still mean solid starter.

[BacktoBasics]

What does this mean for Luka?

I’m pretty high on Luka but this is a legitimate concern.

My gut chalks it up to a little immaturity and over emotion. Seems a little spoiled and en led but that’s a wild speculation.

He could easily grow out of all that...

It’s kinda splitting hairs and depends on how you define “motor”. He does play with aggression but his footwork(all though not bad) seems to March to a different beat than his brain. I’m not so sure he lacks a motor as much as he lacks discipline and a certain level of savvy.

Give it time.

[objective]

Williams in my opinion has a fine motor in the halfcourt, but could probably use someone yelling at him to run harder in transition, that's all. Keep in mind, he's 8 months younger for his draft class than Samanic was and everyone loves to talk about how young Samanic is.

Paul George had a rep for being a lazy underachiever at Fresno State for 2 years and he turned out alright.

re: Samanic, I'm still not that particularly high on him compared to most it seems.

Seems like whether it's Spurs podcasts or posts here or elsewhere so many comment on how 'special' he is and I'm not seeing that when I watch him. Maybe I'm just out of sorts.

If he improves a lot he can be Trey Lyles. Is Trey Lyles special?

Trey Lyles in a micro-view can be incredibly talented on offense and solid rebounding and serviceable defensively but he's not special.

Anyone can string together clips of his offensive game in the NBA and he'd look spectacular. He can do it all. Post up, mid-range, shoot threes. 1-2 dribble pull up. Drive a closeout to the rim. Finish above the rim. Play with craft, good footwork. Pass well. He basically has it all. There's some videos someone made on youtube after he signed with the Spurs that show that Lyles can make scoring look easy, and it's not wrong, there's a reason he was a lottery pick and a reason a team traded a first rounder for him.

But he's still just a guy lucky to get more than the mini-mid level.

If Lyles was in the g-league he'd dominate the g-league. And Samanic, if you just go by PER, is among the least efficient Spurs hopefuls by that metric, ever. And yes, PER is a very flawed stat that just reflects efficiency as determined by Hollinger, but it's easy enough to compare players with if you understand it's flaws.

Samanic was less efficient in his time there than just about everyone except Ryan Arcidiacano's first year. Though I guess that means he can only improve from here, Arcidiacono made the NBA after all.

So not only does Samanic have to improve his body and his shot, he has to greatly improve how efficient his game is. And while I can see him doing that to play regular minutes in the NBA, I'm at a loss to see what he does so much better in a way that matters than Lyles that everyone else seems to see. Better first step, better chance at drawing fouls? Better pop, maybe quicker feet but a 3-inch smaller wingspan and an inch less on the standing reach.

[BacktoBasics]

Trey isn’t half as creative and instinctual as Luka. Yeah that may never translate but Luka has a rawness that screams potential way more than Lyles will ever have.

[slick'81]

This will all be intersting when the spurs finally draft in 2021

[exstatic]

This will all be intersting when the spurs finally draft in 2021

There’ll be a draft this year.

[look_at_g_shred]

It's going to be Maledon isn't it? He's a TP understudy. Hard not to believe that won't have some influence. I think it should be Hayes though. The more i think about it, they SHOULD draft another guard, because Forbes/Belinelli and even white to a certain extent could be gone soon. Draft a guard this draft, and then next year in a supposed talent heavy draft, get your SF of the future (almost likely going to be a lottery team next year) cause the SF/Forwards in this draft are a bit underwhelming. That's just my opinion.

[Prime BEEF]

It's going to be Maledon isn't it? He's a TP understudy. Hard not to believe that won't have some influence. I think it should be Hayes though. The more i think about it, they SHOULD draft another guard, because Forbes/Belinelli and even white to a certain extent could be gone soon. Draft a guard this draft, and then next year in a supposed talent heavy draft, get your SF of the future (almost likely going to be a lottery team next year) cause the SF/Forwards in this draft are a bit underwhelming. That's just my opinion.

Hopefully they let Forbes and Marco walk. Doubt they’ll ever start Murray and White together, which means the starting SG spot would be open. Which could be filled by this years draft pick. I assume DDR will opt in and the team won’t trade him. If that’s the case, he’ll be the starting SF (yay!).

[duncan2150]

It's going to be Maledon isn't it? He's a TP understudy. Hard not to believe that won't have some influence. I think it should be Hayes though. The more i think about it, they SHOULD draft another guard, because Forbes/Belinelli and even white to a certain extent could be gone soon. Draft a guard this draft, and then next year in a supposed talent heavy draft, get your SF of the future (almost likely going to be a lottery team next year) cause the SF/Forwards in this draft are a bit underwhelming. That's just my opinion.

The good thing with drafting is that they will probably let Bryn go, bellinelli will not be in SA Next year 99%.

I'm not sure about maledon, i think other prospects are higher on the Spurs board at 11.

[TD 21]

It's going to be Maledon isn't it? He's a TP understudy. Hard not to believe that won't have some influence. I think it should be Hayes though. The more i think about it, they SHOULD draft another guard, because Forbes/Belinelli and even white to a certain extent could be gone soon. Draft a guard this draft, and then next year in a supposed talent heavy draft, get your SF of the future (almost likely going to be a lottery team next year) cause the SF/Forwards in this draft are a bit underwhelming. That's just my opinion.

Mentioned it weeks ago. It's not just that, but everything I hear about him references his leadership and work ethic. Add that to quality physical tools and youth and he checks a lot of boxes.

He'd be a White replacement, but also potential Murray insurance in case of another significant injury, topping out as a low end starter or becoming a near star, having it go to his head and him wanting to be in a bigger market/more modern franchise.

Hopefully they let Forbes and Marco walk. Doubt they’ll ever start Murray and White together, which means the starting SG spot would be open. Which could be filled by this years draft pick. I assume DDR will opt in and the team won’t trade him. If that’s the case, he’ll be the starting SF (yay!).

Never make the mistake of presuming logic with this organization at this point, but Walker is probably the most likely candidate to start at SG next season.

[objective]

After Joffrey I don't think I'd want the Spurs to take any Parker opinions into consideration

[spurspl]

pls stop this dumb talkin about another guard unless its haliburton whos already ready to become a starting pg and probably is better than murray. We have over 70% to draft with 11th pick and there are pretty good sf available like vassel, bey, neismith or even maybe okoro. DDR should be out, keldon isnt ready and there arent lots of sf at the market.If we move down there are plenty of solid pf and c like reed, vernon, smith, williams. Thats what spurs need. Next yr draft class is way better and if patfo is smart, should be eyeing on evan mobley.

[Prime BEEF]

pls stop this dumb talkin about another guard unless its haliburton whos already ready to become a starting pg and probably is better than murray. We have over 70% to draft with 11th pick and there are pretty good sf available like vassel, bey, neismith or even maybe okoro. DDR should be out, keldon isnt ready and there arent lots of sf at the market.If we move down there are plenty of solid pf and c like reed, vernon, smith, williams. Thats what spurs need. Next yr draft class is way better and if patfo is smart, should be eyeing on evan mobley.

Would love to get Haliburton but doubt he drops to 11. He is better than Murray. But if you pick him there’s no need in keeping both white and Murray...need to trade one of those two.

most likely scenario is that the FO makes no trades at all. They love international players and guards. Will be shocked if they pick something outside of that.

[spurspl]

Would love to get Haliburton but doubt he drops to 11. He is better than Murray. But if you pick him there’s no need in keeping both white and Murray...need to trade one of those two.

most likely scenario is that the FO makes no trades at all. They love international players and guards. Will be shocked if they pick something outside of that.

yeah i know, probably another guard or pokusevski and patfo send him to gleague for 2yrs...after 2 yrs maaaybe come back to first team and, in best scenerio, be a role player from the bench like 10-15min... old same every year. Really dont understand this strategy and policy...