Flynn in major trouble for speaking to Russia about sanctions

[TSA]

And do I take your second no comment on the charge bargain as a you were not aware that was how it worked?

im fully aware of how plea bargains work

This kind of outcome is not called a “plea bargain” – it’s called a “charge bargain.” A “plea bargain” is negotiated after an Indictment is filed, and the defense has been provided the discovery in the case. “Discovery” includes the do ents, witness statements, and physical evidence which the government believes will be used in a trial to establish the defendant’s guilt. The “plea bargain” process can involve a “give and take” negotiation between the two sides resulting in a written agreement wherein the defendant admits to one or more of the offenses charged in the Indictment, normally in exchange for the government’s agreement to dismiss the remaining charges. But the defendant, for the most part, understands the nature of the evidence the government possesses with regard to the crimes charged and can make a judgment for himself as to the “strength” of the government’s case against him when deciding to take the case to trial or accept the plea bargain offered.

A “charge bargain” – as happened in General Flynn’s case — comes before the government has filed an Indictment. The government only “threatens” the putative defendant with being charged with more serious offenses if the defendant doesn’t agree to plead guilty as suggested by the prosecutor. But what other charges the defendant might be facing — and the nature of the evidence supporting such potential charges – are commonly known only to the prosecutor. The defendant and his attorney know only what the prosecutor chooses to share with them.

Armchair lawyer vs real lawyer.

The armchair lawyer thinks he’s winning the argument.

[spurraider21]

You're obviously not as this was never a plea bargain

we've been talking about the same thing. i said plea bargain instead of charge bargain. my mistake.

and the "factual basis" of a plea bargain isn't an admission. it is the defendant acknowledging that the possibility exists that he could be convicted if those facts were proven in court.

[spurraider21]

keep up with the thread

what did his son do? you can't answer the question?

[Chris]

what did his son do? you can't answer the question?

You can't keep up with the thread and current events?

Already posted.

[Chris]

called that

dummy

[ElNono]

Congrats, you can certainly lap it up now... I would've preferred the judge to acquit on the merits, etc, but works for Flynn...

[ElNono]

This is the DOJ saying the FBI royally ed up and had no basis to interview him in the first place. It’s been obvious from the beginning this was just an effort to damage Trump. Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Brennan, Clapper, and Yates are all ting bricks right now.

we already knew Barr's opinion on all this before today

Pretty much, tbh... but that shouldn't take away the fact that Flynn walked free without a pardon...

[spurraider21]

dummy

didnt answer the question at all. what did his son do?

[Chris]

didnt answer the question at all. what did his son do?

Doing the Chumpdumper thing.

I spit on you.

[GAustex]

In wrestling that would be 2 points for a reversal

[spurraider21]

Doing the Chumpdumper thing.

I spit on you.

you cant tell me what Flynn's son did. thats good enough for me

[Chris]

you cant tell me what Flynn's son did. thats good enough for me

He didn't do anything dummy.

That's the point

How are you a lawyer?

[spurraider21]

He didn't do anything dummy.

That's the point

How are you a lawyer?

great, so there was nothing to protect him from

[Chris]

great, so there was nothing to protect him from

Besides a perjury trap

Keep up with the thread next time instead of asking stupid questions.

[spurraider21]

Besides a perjury trap

Keep up with the thread next time instead of asking stupid questions.

so flynn had to plead guilty for lying to the feds in order to prevent his son from lying to the feds?

[Chris]

so flynn had to plead guilty for lying to the feds in order to prevent his son from lying to the feds?

Perjury traps don't require you to lie. Forget an exact date or two and forget to cross a t and that's all you need. The FBI agents didn't think Flymn was lying. Mueller and his prosecutors did after the fact. The exact same treatment was in store for Flynn's son unless he ageeed to a plea deal.

Dummy.

[spurraider21]

Perjury traps don't require you to lie. Forget an exact date or two and forget to cross a t and that's all you need.

no. in order to be convicted a jury has to be convinced that you knowingly and willfully make a false statement. mistaking a date or forgetting to cross a t isn't going to get you there

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

knowing that you spoke to the russian ambassador about having them go easy on sanctions and then lying about it is more than mistaking date or forgetting to cross a t

The FBI agents didn't think Flynn was lying. Mueller and his prosecutors did after the fact.

doesn't matter whether or not they thought he was lying at the time. what matters is that he did lie. he denied talking to kislyak about sanctions and asking them not to escalate. in fact, he did talk to kislyak about sanctions and asked them not to escalate.

The exact same treatment was in store for Flynn's son unless he ageeed to a plea deal.

Dummy.

so all flynn's son had to do was not lie if he had contacts with russians

its pretty bizarre that he was so convinced that his son would lie to the feds if it came to it that he decided to take the bullet

[Chris]

see false statement perjury

[spurraider21]

see false statement perjury

there's no perjury here. perjury is when you are under oath. flynn didnt lie under oath. thats why he was charged with false statements. i linked you to the statute. requires it to be both willful and knowingly a false statement

so Flynn had to plead guilty to prevent his son from knowingly and willingly lying to the feds . he must not have much respect for his son if he was so sure his son would instantly break the law if given the chance to

[Chris]

GENERAL FLYNN: "As God is my witness, the truth is I am innocent"

Doesn't look he was knowingly and willfully making a false statement.

Did your jury decide he was?

Oh that's right DOJ dropped the case

[spurraider21]

GENERAL FLYNN: "As God is my witness, the truth is I am innocent"

Doesn't look he was knowingly and willfully making a false statement.

Did your jury decide he was?

Oh that's right DOJ dropped the case

Flynn took an oath, on the bible, and told the court he was guilty, twice.

there was no jury because he pleaded guilty after taking an oath and swearing on the bible

[Chris]

Flynn took an oath, on the bible, and told the court he was guilty, twice.

there was no jury because he pleaded guilty after taking an oath and swearing on the bible

protecting his family

General Flynn.

[spurraider21]

Horowitz:

adequate grounds to investigate flynn



DOJ/Barr's filing today:

actually we dont think the investigation was justified!



they're not even stating outright that Flynn didn't lie to them in the first place. just that it doesnt matter

[spurraider21]

protecting his family

protecting his son from knowingly and willfully lying to investigators

imagine knowing your son is so ty that unless you plead guilty do something you absolutely didnt do, your son is going to knowingly and willfully lie and get himself in trouble

General Flynn.

lied to the court after swearing on the bible

twice

[Chris]

Ilhan Omar thinks Flynn got off because of his white privilege.