Bulls: The Last Dance do entary

[Neo.]

Neo, did the local newspaper guys hold him down and tattoo "Chosen1" on his back as well?

also not self proclaimed, that originated with SI

him taking a name and running with it to build his brand, is not remotely the same as a self-proclamation

But even so, still put's him with a losing Final's record of 3-4. Wade being banged up in 2014 is like Pippen throwing his back out in the 98 Finals and Rodman being bored and disinterested in anything outside of Carmen Electra. The Bulls still find a way behind their leader. This is what people have expected of Lebron since he is the "Chosen1" as his tattoo and nickname suggest.

1) pippen having a hurt back for a single game is not in the same league as wade playing hurt for an entire playoff run
2) utah wasnt even close to being on the bulls level. the spurs were clearly the better basketball team over miami that entire season

I know you guys consider me a hater or whatever, but I really don't agree.

not a hater, just oddly butthurt and obsessed with him considering you find some way to include him in every conversation possible, just for the sake of insulting him. its pretty weird tbh

I appreciate his talent and effort for what it is, but I am just baffled as to how anyone can honestly place him above Jordan.

i think its an extremely small minority of people who place him above jordan

He's top 5, IMO. MJ, Kareem and Maybe Wilt and all the others are debatable.

so id say its reasonable to believe that he has lived up to expectations, which were high. and hes still not done yet. he may well add another le or two, mvp, and overtake kareem for the all time points record.

[Neo.]

2011 Finals is where he lost any chance at being in the conversation

2016 put him right back in the discussion

far better than anything you did

[Will Hunting]

Horace Grant went HAM on Dad Killer over this docuseries

[Neo.]

But then Lebron will no longer get that current player hype. There will be a new guy proclaimed the next Jordan and Lebron will slide down the totem pole to his rightful place. Until then we cannot fully reflect on his career.

funny thing is, since lebron, no one has been proclaimed or even talked about as "the next Jordan", because Bron ended that conversation in 2 ways

1) he lived up to his hype, something no one compared to mike (other than Kobe, who didnt have anywhere NEAR the hype lebron had) was able to do
2) he made it abundantly clear that its ridiculous to compare anyone to mike, because you dont have to play the same way mike did, to be great and dominant. plus, the one guy who actually was jordanesque (Kobe) was pretty clearly surpassed in greatness by lebron years ago.

regardless, yes people will likely have a different feel about him when he retires, but i really dont think it will hurt him. often times it helps a player, because people start to really look at his body of work, instead of his recent work, or nitpicking at small moments. lebrons body of work is truly magnificent.

[lefty]

Horace Grant went HAM on Dad Killer over this docuseries

Yeah I saw that

Not afraid of the Nike snipers tbh

[Will Hunting]

Yeah I saw that

Not afraid of the Nike snipers tbh

It’s pretty indisputable how much of a piece of human being DK is tbh

[FrostKing]

funny thing is, since lebron, no one has been proclaimed or even talked about as "the next Jordan", because Bron ended that conversation in 2 ways

1) he lived up to his hype, something no one compared to mike (other than Kobe, who didnt have anywhere NEAR the hype lebron had) was able to do
2) he made it abundantly clear that its ridiculous to compare anyone to mike, because you dont have to play the same way mike did, to be great and dominant. plus, the one guy who actually was jordanesque (Kobe) was pretty clearly surpassed in greatness by lebron years ago.

regardless, yes people will likely have a different feel about him when he retires, but i really dont think it will hurt him. often times it helps a player, because people start to really look at his body of work, instead of his recent work, or nitpicking at small moments. lebrons body of work is truly magnificent.

Leonard might change all this. He is already proclaimed the closest current copy to Jordan. If he delivers the Clippers their first le while eliminating Lebron along the way. Dann that would be crippling for Lebron's legacy.

But as it currently stands, your viewpoint is shared by the majority.

[lefty]

It’s pretty indisputable how much of a piece of human being DK is tbh

that insecure petty pos

he elevated his game against legend Hornacek, what a hero

[FrostKing]

And now we're back at Jordan was a meanie

[Neo.]

Leonard might change all this. He is already proclaimed the closest current copy to Jordan. If he delivers the Clippers their first le while eliminating Lebron along the way. Dann that would be crippling for Lebron's legacy.

But as it currently stands, your viewpoint is shared by the majority.

i dont think it would cripple lebrons legacy, as opposed to simply increasing leonards dramatically

lebrons is pretty much cemented as a top 5 in most peoples minds. his career isn't remotely done, yet hes already built a resume of accomplishments that only mike and kareem have outdone at this point. virtually no amount of losses can change or take away from that.

[140]

Horace Grant went HAM on Dad Killer over this docuseries

He sounds pretty salty tbh

[FrostKing]

i dont think it would cripple lebrons legacy, as opposed to simply increasing leonards dramatically

lebrons is pretty much cemented as a top 5 in most peoples minds. his career isn't remotely done, yet hes already built a resume of accomplishments that only mike and kareem have outdone at this point. virtually no amount of losses can change or take away from that.

Lebron's legacy sits on two foundations
- Longevity
- Finals appearances

Those are less stable arguments than short term dominance or all time winner. Sports medicine is improving and the East is not improving.

Imagine if Zion had been drafted by the Knicks. Zion already had a superior statistical season than Lebron's rookie season. Now all he would need to do is guide them to the playoffs and he out does Lebron's rookie season in that department. My point being few consider Lebron an all time dominant player or all time winner. His accomplishments are not very safe and will diminish over time. He badly needs that 4th le in LA.

[Michael Jordan.]

Those 2011 Mavs swept the 2 time defending champions Lakers and then beat a talented OKC team but people seem to forget that

Not to mention nobody was stopping Dirk that year and the Mavs Zone D was fantastic

LeBron had Wade and Bosh, yet still ended up playing the worst out of those three. Getting duked up by a 4’11 whitey.

[Dirks_Finale]

Lebron's legacy sits on two foundations
- Longevity
- Finals appearances

Those are less stable arguments than short term dominance or all time winner. Sports medicine is improving and the East is not improving.

Imagine if Zion had been drafted by the Knicks. Zion already had a superior statistical season than Lebron's rookie season. Now all he would need to do is guide them to the playoffs and he out does Lebron's rookie season in that department. My point being few consider Lebron an all time dominant player or all time winner. His accomplishments are not very safe and will diminish over time. He badly needs that 4th le in LA.

If he comes up with 2 more rings with LA I think he is cemented top 5...maybe cemented #2 depending on how he gets those rings. And placing him in the GOAT conversation becomes much more realistic. Unfortunately for him, Kawhi is a big road block. Dont see any of that happening unless Davis turns the corner.

[Michael Jordan.]

In an era of no hand checking got shut down by Jason Terry and Shawn Marion.

[Michael Jordan.]

And yeah Wade still found a way to shoot 54% from the field against those Mavs while LeBron was shooting 60% from the free throw line and was scared to touch the ball in the 4th quarter

[Neo.]

In an era of no hand checking got shut down by Jason Terry and Shawn Marion.

jason terry didn't even guard him

[Michael Jordan.]

Lowest usage rate out of the big 3, yet led with the most turnovers.

[Michael Jordan.]

jason terry didn't even guard him

Oh that’s right. Is Deshawn Stevenson even still in the NBA?

[Neo.]

And yeah Wade still found a way to shoot 54% from the field against those Mavs while LeBron was shooting 60% from the free throw line and was scared to touch the ball in the 4th quarter

it's also well do ented that Carlisle's gameplan was to focus the majority of defensive attention on LeBron with constant help defense, and let Wade have whatever he wanted

[lefty]

It’s funny cuz handchecking was called back then especially on Jordan

[lefty]

Oh that’s right. Is Deshawn Stevenson even still in the NBA?

Jordan hated zone defensw, he wouldn’t have struggled too against the 2011 Mavs

[lefty]

And yeah Wade still found a way to shoot 54% from the field against those Mavs while LeBron was shooting 60% from the free throw line and was scared to touch the ball in the 4th quarter

Because Jordan never disappeared in 4th quarters during the playoffs

Oh wait he did and against tier defenses

[Michael Jordan.]

getting duked up by an alien

[FrostKing]

If he comes up with 2 more rings with LA I think he is cemented top 5...maybe cemented #2 depending on how he gets those rings. And placing him in the GOAT conversation becomes much more realistic. Unfortunately for him, Kawhi is a big road block. Dont see any of that happening unless Davis turns the corner.

Oh yah, if he has 5 rings to go along with most longevity records. He is in the GOAT discussion.

A 4th ring which is 50/50 chance, would firmly put him above Shaq & Kobe for me. les with 3 separate franchises is impressive

As of now. 3 rings? Doesn't move the needle for me. Still in the Hakeem, Shaq, and Kobe group. With Leonard fast approaching