Capitalism vs Socialism

[BSfromTX]

niether system works when leaders are corrupt. Both can work with pragmatic, honest leadership as long as they are not driven by dogma of system nomenclature and focus on human rights and needs.

THIS

[DMC]

Today, my friends living in Toronto constantly complain about the cost of living in Canada. Send me photos from the supermarket. Meanwhile their city has morphed into India Jr (look up Brampton).

Brampton is fine. Few temples but good real estate value and not a bad place to visit. Indians are nice people mostly.

[spurraider21]

niether system works when leaders are corrupt. Both can work with pragmatic, honest leadership as long as they are not driven by dogma of system nomenclature and focus on human rights and needs.

yeah... we've seen failed states with all sorts of economic systems. the issue with socialism is that at some point, by definition, property has to be taken from the owners of the means of production, and that's not something that is usually able to happen peacefully, and in the US, it would basically be uncons utional. so what we've seen is that nations trying to implement it do it via a very powerful government... and then the government never cedes that power which was theoretically only supposed to be a means to an end (lenin, for instance, viewed the totalitarian state as a necessary transition step to an actually communist society... which obviously never happened, and in his version, that transition step also included the purging of dissenters).

but the USSR never outgrew its totalitarian status and ended up collapsing for a myriad of reasons (and no, not just because of the arms race like we were taught in schools... but the economic inefficiency of their top-down central economic planning, nationalism among the satellite states, and isolationist economy where they engaged in virtually no foreign trade, putting them at a massive disadvantage)

we've seen repeats of this in a lot of the latin americans states that have taken their swing at socialism, again, through the means of a typically despotic government that doesnt cede control. even a guy like evo morales, who was democratically elected, and in comparison with other guys like castro, chavez, was a "good guy" ended up repeatedly fighting against term limits and his government was full of corruption (despite the fact that he was genuinely popular)

i dont know that socialism is an inherently unworkable system (and based on your post doest seem you do either)... but nobody has really found an effective way to actually have it implemented or transitioned into.

[Blake]

niether system works when leaders are corrupt. Both can work with pragmatic, honest leadership as long as they are not driven by dogma of system nomenclature and focus on human rights and needs.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being worst, how corrupt is Trump?

Be an honest broker

[BSfromTX]

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being worst, how corrupt is Trump?

Be an honest broker

Trump 10
Pence 10

Beiden, Obama, Bush, Clintons, McCain, Palin, etc. 10

[DMC]

yeah... we've seen failed states with all sorts of economic systems. the issue with socialism is that at some point, by definition, property has to be taken from the owners of the means of production, and that's not something that is usually able to happen peacefully, and in the US, it would basically be uncons utional. so what we've seen is that nations trying to implement it do it via a very powerful government... and then the government never cedes that power which was theoretically only supposed to be a means to an end (lenin, for instance, viewed the totalitarian state as a necessary transition step to an actually communist society... which obviously never happened, and in his version, that transition step also included the purging of dissenters).

but the USSR never outgrew its totalitarian status and ended up collapsing for a myriad of reasons (and no, not just because of the arms race like we were taught in schools... but the economic inefficiency of their top-down central economic planning, nationalism among the satellite states, and isolationist economy where they engaged in virtually no foreign trade, putting them at a massive disadvantage)

we've seen repeats of this in a lot of the latin americans states that have taken their swing at socialism, again, through the means of a typically despotic government that doesnt cede control. even a guy like evo morales, who was democratically elected, and in comparison with other guys like castro, chavez, was a "good guy" ended up repeatedly fighting against term limits and his government was full of corruption (despite the fact that he was genuinely popular)

i dont know that socialism is an inherently unworkable system (and based on your post doest seem you do either)... but nobody has really found an effective way to actually have it implemented or transitioned into.

It would need to be organically developed, not implemented over capitalism via fiat.

[Blake]

Trump 10
Pence 10

Beiden, Obama, Bush, Clintons, McCain, Palin, etc. 10

Care to provide specific instances of corruptness for those scores or are you just pushing the straight ticket both sides button?

[BSfromTX]

Care to provide specific instances of corruptness for those scores or are you just pushing the straight ticket both sides button?

Like clock work, regardless of party, these things happen:

1. National debt increases almost exponentially
2. Government power grows/expands
3. We replace non compliant governments

You may be for these things, but I am not. If you want to believe anyone of those people are "the good guys" then I don't know what to tell ya. People can be cold hearted and without regard and it seems like most of them end up in politics. I now vote libertarian. As much as you complain about capitalism, I wonder why you don't mention the Federal Reserve, IMF, and Bank of International Settlements more often. For me, that is where the center of power is in this world. People like Trump and Biden are mere sellouts willing to do whatever is asked in order to get theirs.

That is my opinion. Unless a candidate is calling out those ins utions (which would be suicide), then I don't put much stock in what they have to say.

[Blake]

Like clock work, regardless of party, these things happen:

1. National debt increases almost exponentially
2. Government power grows/expands
3. We replace non compliant governments

You may be for these things, but I am not. If you want to believe anyone of those people are "the good guys" then I don't know what to tell ya. People can be cold hearted and without regard and it seems like most of them end up in politics. I now vote libertarian. As much as you complain about capitalism, I wonder why you don't mention the Federal Reserve, IMF, and Bank of International Settlements more often. For me, that is where the center of power is in this world. People like Trump and Biden are mere sellouts willing to do whatever is asked in order to get theirs.

That is my opinion. Unless a candidate is calling out those ins utions (which would be suicide), then I don't put much stock in what they have to say.

So nothing specific per person that you listed.

Thanks for participating. I'll just mark you down as "lazy both sides do it" guy and move on.

[spurraider21]

It would need to be organically developed, not implemented over capitalism via fiat.

or just incrementally as opposed to a sudden upheaval of an entire economic system

[BSfromTX]

So nothing specific per person that you listed.

Thanks for participating. I'll just mark you down as "lazy both sides do it" guy and move on.

what is anyone suppose to cite in here? Everyone argues about what is credible and what is not. Do you actually believe that even one of those I mentioned is on the up and up? Seems that would be much more difficult to support. Lazy, no, unwilling to participate in the merry go round hoping for a Trump or Beiden to solve our countries problems? Yes

[Blake]

what is anyone suppose to cite in here? Everyone argues about what is credible and what is not. Do you actually believe that even one of those I mentioned is on the up and up? Seems that would be much more difficult to support. Lazy, no, unwilling to participate in the merry go round hoping for a Trump or Beiden to solve our countries problems? Yes

So nothing specific per person that you listed.

Thanks for participating. I'll just mark you down as "lazy both sides do it" guy and move on.

[pgardn]

Like clock work, regardless of party, these things happen:

1. National debt increases almost exponentially
2. Government power grows/expands
3. We replace non compliant governments

You may be for these things, but I am not. If you want to believe anyone of those people are "the good guys" then I don't know what to tell ya. People can be cold hearted and without regard and it seems like most of them end up in politics. I now vote libertarian. As much as you complain about capitalism, I wonder why you don't mention the Federal Reserve, IMF, and Bank of International Settlements more often. For me, that is where the center of power is in this world. People like Trump and Biden are mere sellouts willing to do whatever is asked in order to get theirs.

That is my opinion. Unless a candidate is calling out those ins utions (which would be suicide), then I don't put much stock in what they have to say.

1. Increasing the divide between rich and poor.
2. Total debacle of health care
3. Willingness to handle disasters.
4. Attempting to bring people together in a UNITED way.

Now rate these.

[Spurtacular]

So nothing specific per person that you listed.

Thanks for participating. I'll just mark you down as "lazy both sides do it" guy and move on.

what is anyone suppose to cite in here? Everyone argues about what is credible and what is not. Do you actually believe that even one of those I mentioned is on the up and up? Seems that would be much more difficult to support. Lazy, no, unwilling to participate in the merry go round hoping for a Trump or Beiden to solve our countries problems? Yes

So nothing specific per person that you listed.

Thanks for participating. I'll just mark you down as "lazy both sides do it" guy and move on.

Idiot Blake.

But just stop thinking you have hand in the first place, board cuckold.

[boutons_deux]

I have not read this thread, but years ago when my friends from Toronto came to visit me, they BOASTED about how they could spend their money on "other" things because no country would ever threaten Canada because of its proximity to the US. Pissed me off no end.

snowflake

Canada has the same geographical isolation that USA does.

Canada now should fear being invaded by diseased Americans

[spurraider21]

I have not read this thread, but years ago when my friends from Toronto came to visit me, they BOASTED about how they could spend their money on "other" things because no country would ever threaten Canada because of its proximity to the US. Pissed me off no end.

why does that piss you off

[Blake]

Idiot Blake.

But just stop thinking you have hand in the first place, board cuckold.

He participated then quickly folded when the thinking got tough. The Derp Method ®️

[Blake]

I have not read this thread, but years ago when my friends from Toronto came to visit me, they BOASTED about how they could spend their money on "other" things because no country would ever threaten Canada because of its proximity to the US. Pissed me off no end.

That's what pisses you off? Smh

[DMC]

or just incrementally as opposed to a sudden upheaval of an entire economic system

Incrementally imposed is basically indistinguishable from the erosion of cons utional rights. That is where we are now.

[Spurtacular]

He participated then quickly folded when the thinking got tough. The Derp Method ®️

Nothing is ever tough when arguing against a beta male like you. Stop thinking you have hand.

[clambake]

Nothing is ever tough when arguing against a beta male like you. Stop thinking you have hand.

No women ever gerbil

How many miles on your chairlift van?

[ChumpDumper]

I have not read this thread, but years ago when my friends from Toronto came to visit me, they BOASTED about how they could spend their money on "other" things because no country would ever threaten Canada because of its proximity to the US. Pissed me off no end.

They don't have to worry about medical bankruptcies either.

[Spurtacular]

No women ever gerbil

How many miles on your chairlift van?

You have no game either. Blake is in your name.

[ElNono]

You have no game either. Blake is in your name.

[DMC]

You have no game either. Blake is in your name.

Glamblake