Who is SpursTalk's favorite 2020 draft prospect heading into September?

[Dejounte]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

Maybe because tape and stats both back up what people believe about Precious and show things you just refuse to see?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview#gid=0

[Duncan2177]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

[dbestpro]

I keep coming back to full Memphis games to see if I can get what a lot of folks see on Achiuwa, but, nop, even when he has good games, he just doesn't do what the Spurs need. He is an energy bigman that gets most of his points in transition and as a finisher near the basket. On defense, even though he tries, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a full time defender on the perimeter. I guess his shooting form looks decent enough, but his shooting numbers are concerning (mainly that FT% and that contested 3pt %). I wouldn't bet on him ever developing that aspect of his game.

In sum, he's a guy that doesn't space the floor, nor defends on the perimeter. Why would we want a player like that on our roster?

I tend to agree. After watching lots of video I see Patrick Williams as being better than Precious but I still think Saddiq Bey is more ready to make an impact that any of the players drafted. That quick three is killer along with heady D. S. Bey has moved to the top of my list. Probably won't be there when we draft though.

[DAF86]

Maybe because tape and stats both back up what people believe about Precious and show things you just refuse to see?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview#gid=0

Yeah, he's a good rim protector and can ocassionally switch on the perimeter to guard lesser talents. How does that refute anything I said?

[Dejounte]

Yeah, he's a good rim protector and can ocassionally switch on the perimeter to guard lesser talents. How does that refute anything I said?

If you check out the link I posted along with the video, it shows advanced statistics that Precious is one of the best at guarding isolation plays and spot ups = perimeter players.

I love how you say "lesser talents" as if that has not been your go-to argument with Poku. Why does it suddenly apply here?

[DAF86]

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

If I was the Spurs GM, I'm sure these last couple of years I would have made some moves that would have made you gladder than what the Spurs management actually did, tbh.

[DAF86]

If you check out the link I posted along with the video, it shows advanced statistics that Precious is one of the best at guarding isolation plays and spot ups = perimeter players.

I love how you say "lesser talents" as if that has not been your go-to argument with Poku. Why does it apply here?

Because talent makes a lot more difference on offense than on defense. Any young guy with energy and athleticism can more or less defend at NBA level. You need special talent and skill to attack at NBA level. That is to say, it is easier to defend outside the NBA, than it is to attack outside the NBA. That's why I marked Poku's defense as a question mark, despite having superb defensive metrics and stats, but I trust his offensive game translating better. As an offensive player, life is easier on the spacier, faster, more ref protected courts of the NBA than it is on Europe or NCAA.

[DAF86]

P/S: your link says it all: "Center defense stats". That's what Achiuwa is, a bigman. If you want him to be that, fine. Personally I don't know why folks would want to draft a bigman over a forward but fine; but if your expectation is for him to somehow become a guy that provides legit spacing while being able to guard folks on the perimeter full time, then I just don't see it.

[exstatic]

If a team attempts to use Precious at any position smaller than PF, his bust risk skyrockets. He just is too far short in those areas needed to play the 3. If NBA scouts saw that as a possibility, he’d be slotted as a top 3 pick.

[Dejounte]

P/S: your link says it all: "Center defense stats". That's what Achiuwa is, a bigman. If you want him to be that, fine. Personally I don't know why folks would want to draft a bigman over a forward but fine; but if your expectation is for him to somehow become a guy that provides legit spacing while being able to guard folks on the perimeter full time, then I just don't see it.

We can take this to the other thread if you want, this isn't a Precious thread. Precious could have easily been not a center this season, if Wiseman didn't get suspended. He played PF for the games Wiseman did play. What narrative would you have come up with then where he would have had to guard the perimeter players more often?

[DAF86]

We can take this to the other thread if you want, this isn't a Precious thread. Precious could have easily been not a center this season, if Wiseman didn't get suspended. He played PF for the games Wiseman did play. What narrative would you have come up with then where he would have had to guard the perimeter players more often?

I just saw his game vs Tulsa. He played PF there. He still played like a bigmen, both in offense and on defense.

And if he had guarded on the perimeter more often and showed he could do it consistently, I would probably be campaigning for him right now, but since he didn't and there isn't any evidence he can do it on a nightly basis on the NBA, then I don't. Pretty simple, tbh. I have nothing against the guy, so I don't know why you think I would be making narratives against him if I saw him as a player that fills a need of ours, tbh.

[Dejounte]

I just saw his game vs Tulsa. He played PF there. He still played like a bigmen, both in offense and on defense.

And if he had guarded on the perimeter more often and showed he could do it consistently, I would probably be campaigning for him right now, but since he didn't and there isn't any evidence he can do it on a nightly basis on the NBA, then I don't. Pretty simple, tbh. I have nothing against the guy, so I don't know why you think I would be making narratives against him if I saw him as a player that fills a need of ours, tbh.

Sigh, let me sum this up:

1. He's a PF who can occasionally guard SF (especially bigger ones) and C. Not many prospects in the draft can this be said for.
2. Expecting him to guard 3s full-time is a long shot, I've constantly repeated this
3. His advanced stats on defense do stack favorably with forwards and some guards
4. So you chose a single game where he played 11 minutes as a PF, in a game in the middle of the NCAA where he has been accustomed to playing C. Nice.
5. Whether you believe you are or are not making narratives doesnt matter. We each have our own bias whether you like to admit that or not. Saying he doesn't have lateral quickness (especially compared to forwards close to his size) is just not factual therefore must stem from some sort of bias
6. To hold Precious to some kind of accountability for not showing something consistently is not a fair way to gauge a prospect. Especially when what's being asked of him was something out of his control (playing him at a position he never played his entire life because a teammate was suspended). There are areas Poku hasn't shown consistency but it's not an area that should be focused on.

[Dejounte]

Let me reiterate again that I don't care if the Spurs draft any of Precious, Poku, Pat, Nesmith or any of the top guys winning right now. I think it's great that the Spurstalk population see something in each of these guys. I see something in each too. There's no reason to try and sway people's minds if they like a certain prospect. The Spurs are in a good spot. I don't see the point in trying to downplay a certain prospect because you personally don't like them. We have other threads for that.

[DAF86]

Let me reiterate again that I don't care if the Spurs draft any of Precious, Poku, Pat, Nesmith or any of the top guys winning right now. I think it's great that the Spurstalk population see something in each of these guys. I see something in each too. There's no reason to try and sway people's minds if they like a certain prospect. The Spurs are in a good spot. I don't see the point in trying to downplay a certain prospect because you personally don't like them. We have other threads for that.

Then what's the point of a message board then?

We are here to talk ball and players. If we like someone's game, we say it; if we don't, we say it too, tbh. That's how a message board works, tbh. In fact, the fun part is when there is a back and forth regarding a particular topic. If we would be all agreeing on everything here, it would be boring as , tbh. Also, why are you acting as if you hadn't dowplayed the players you don't like (***cough*** Devin Vassell ***cough***)?

[Dejounte]

I really meant to emphasize using the other threads, not eliminate all talk from the forum.

I honestly don't remember you being swayed about any players. Once your mind is set on a player, no matter what anyone says, it's permanently set. So I just don't know why again I try to argue with someone who's being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

[DAF86]

Sigh, let me sum this up:

1. He's a PF who can occasionally guard SF (especially bigger ones) and C. Not many prospects in the draft can this be said for.
2. Expecting him to guard 3s full-time is a long shot, I've constantly repeated this

Ok, so pretty much what I said. Why the backlash then?

3. His advanced stats on defense do stack favorably with forwards and some guards
4. So you chose a single game where he played 11 minutes as a PF, in a game in the middle of the NCAA where he has been accustomed to playing C. Nice.

I didn't watch just one game, I just gave you the example of the last one I watched. And in any case, the argument is irrelevant, whether he played Center or Power Forward, the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.

5. Whether you believe you are or are not making narratives doesnt matter. We each have our own bias whether you like to admit that or not. Saying he doesn't have lateral quickness (especially compared to forwards close to his size) is just not factual therefore must stem from some sort of bias

What bias could I have? I don't know the guy, I don't care where is he from, nor where did he go to college, nor anything else. All I care about is his game and seeing if he could be a valuable piece for the Spurs. By analysing his skillset I don't think he would be and that's it. There's really nothing more to it than this, tbh.

6. To hold Precious to some kind of accountability for not showing something consistently is not a fair way to gauge a prospect. Especially when what's being asked of him was something out of his control (playing him at a position he never played his entire life because a teammate was suspended). There are areas Poku hasn't shown consistency but it's not an area that should be focused on.

Yet folks project him to be playing at that position on the NBA. That's what I don't get.

[Dejounte]

Ok, so pretty much what I said. Why the backlash then?



I didn't watch just one game, I just gave you the example of the last one I watched. And in any case, the argument is irrelevant, whether he played Center or Power Forward, the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.



What bias could I have? I don't know the guy, I don't care where is he from, nor where did he go to college, nor anything else. All I care about is his game and seeing if he could be a valuable piece for the Spurs. By analysing his skillset I don't think he would be and that's it. There's really nothing more to it than this, tbh.



Yet folks project him to be playing at that position on the NBA. That's what I don't get.

Yes

[DAF86]

I really meant to emphasize using the other threads, not eliminate all talk from the forum.

I honestly don't remember you being swayed about any players. Once your mind is set on a player, no matter what anyone says, it's permanently set. So I just don't know why again I try to argue with someone who's being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Are you kidding me? I flip flopped on my number one target three times already. I started with Vassell, then Williams and now it's Poku. Vassell went from being my number one guy to being my number 5.

[Sugus]

the fact remains that at this point in time he's exclusively a bigman. I don't know why so many folks are expecting him to be a 3 and D guy on the NBA.

I think this is the crux of your issue, DAF. Who is expecting him to be a 3&D player? I certainly am not, and I have him as my #1 prospect in my personal board. He looks to be a versatile defender, yes, a big man - but not the archaic kind of big man, like Poeltl (who after watching the bubble, I'm not convinced will ever be able to develop into a starting calibre C on a championship team, or close to it) is, but the athletic, rim-running, vertical spacing kind of big man, which is extremely valuable in the modern NBA.

More than any defensive play or ability though, what stands out to me is his intensity and high motor. And after watching the Spurs, and a lot of prospects, and Keldon in particular, I've taken quite a bit of interest in high-motor as a trait for a player: I believe there's players that have the drive to work on themselves and their games in order to become the best they can be, and players who're just "happy to be there". I see this with Luka - all the tools and talent in the world, all the genetic gifts, yet most of the time he looks lethargic on the court, like he's expecting someone to yell at him in order to start putting in the energy and care. I don't see Luka ever developing into a star, even though he could, simply because I don't see his love for the game and his drive to get better. Now compare that to Keldon, who doesn't have nearly as pronounced physical gifts, but is an absolute dog and constantly pushing himself to get better - that's the kind of player that I can see overcoming his initial limitations, and fulfilling his potential.

In every interview, every game I've watched of Precious, I've had that impression. And it's big for me, personally. If I had to bet on who has the more likely chance to be starting at PF in 3 years' time between Precious and Luka, and who's the backup, I'm taking Precious every single day. So why not draft him? He's maybe not our wing of the future - but who's saying we absolutely must fulfill that need, in this draft? To be honest, and this is certain: given the talent disparity between this year's draft and next years', and the importance of a ball-handling, offense-running wing in today's league (see the Celtics for an easy example), I'd much, much, much rather draft Precious this draft, then tank next season, and shoot for the moon next year with a top-3 pick or close to it. There, we get our star wing, with our guard positions already covered and our big men (hopefully) covered as well. That seems like a solid plan to me.

As an addendum - I follow both Keldon and Dejounte on Instagram. The former is constantly putting in the work at the gym, early as 5am to as late as 12am. The latter is posting videos jumping in the pool on his mansion, with his daugther. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's a mentality thing IMO, and you can't change that. Either have it or you don't... And Precious seems to have it in spades.

[RC_Drunkford]

If I was the Spurs GM, I'm sure these last couple of years I would have made some moves that would have made you gladder than what the Spurs management actually did, tbh.

no offense but literally every idiot on this forum could do better than what the Spurs did since 2017

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd be ok with any of the top 5 vote-getters, tbh.

[BackHome]

I agree with Sugus regarding Precious heart and desire to win and get better in his craft but not sold on his ability to shoot from outside. I still like the kid and if people don’t remember he name came up as Spurs pick in some mocks when we had the 18th pick early in the season so good chance we still might take him. I can also see him easily carving time from Poodle at the center Position.

Right now I am torn between him Poku and Smith if the three Smith seems to be the safer pick in that you get a player that is good in offense and also good on defense and he can guard 2 - 4 I think pretty comfortable. But still like the Unicorn but those damn Unicorns have a tendency to bite you on your ass. So with that said May the best kid win

Oh one thing I don’t agree is that I think we definitely need to tank next year just started to look at next years draft and all I can say is it’s stacked with SF and PF.

[Sugus]

I agree with Sugus regarding Precious heart and desire to win and get better in his craft but not sold on his ability to shoot from outside. I still like the kid and if people don’t remember he name came up as Spurs pick in some mocks when we had the 18th pick early in the season so good chance we still might take him. I can also see him easily carving time from Poodle at the center Position.

Right now I am torn between him Poku and Smith if the three Smith seems to be the safer pick in that you get a player that is good in offense and also good on defense and he can guard 2 - 4 I think pretty comfortable. But still like the Unicorn but those damn Unicorns have a tendency to bite you on your ass. So with that said May the best kid win

Oh one thing I don’t agree is that I think we definitely need to tank next year just started to look at next years draft and all I can say is it’s stacked with SF and PF.

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

22 is going to be what they call the double draft. It will contain the last one and done class, and the first HS class in quite a while. I’d trade our pick in next years draft for a 22 first rounder.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I'm similarly torn between a few prospects, including Poku. I really like him... In theory. But I can't watch even a single game of his without endlessly wondering whether he'd ever be able to hold his own in an NBA court - not just in terms of the players he'll be going up against, but the physicality, the quickness, the body-intensity. I know he's really mobile, but I just can't shake off the Porzingis comp (who yet again got injured before finishing out an NBA season, even being more rested for these playoffs than he'd ever been in his career). And Porzingis put on a of a lot more muscle than Poku could realistically hope to gain - yet tendons and cartilages just aren't something you can work on and add muscle towards. I'd rather go for a higher floor prospect - which doesn't necessarily mean they have to have a lower ceiling than Poku, tbh.

Regarding Precious' ability to shoot from outside, I have yet to see video evidence that his shot isn't mechanically sound. Yes, he doesn't shoot volume, yes, he has bad percentages, but so far I haven't seen a true "can't be fixed" aspect to his shot. I don't care that it's slow either, since I'm not expecting him to become a volume shooter, I just need him to be able to keep defenses honest by draining open shots. If he can do that, and considering his driving and faceup game, it just opens up a lot of possibilities for him as a perimeter (big) player; that is the true value that I see behind Precious, not even mentioning his defense.

If everything goes accordingly development-wise, we could be dreaming of a starting lineup of White-Lonnie (bye DJ, I said this was a dream...)-Keldon-Luka-Precious. You have 5 above-average defenders (jury's still out on Luka ofc but IMO he has shown promise), switchability, outside shooting and playmaking, rebounding. Luka can take on the heavy shooting load, he shown in his last game that he's willing to let it fly, and Precious gives you the things Luka doesn't - vertical spacing, hustle, rebounding, lob finishing, bulldog mentality from your big. To me, that looks like a really balanced and modern NBA team, for sure could make the playoffs (again, if everything goes according to plan).

Btw, I don't know why you said you disagreed with me then said we definitely need to tank next season, since that's exactly what I suggested. For sure we have to do that, next years' class is rumored to be absolutely loaded with talent at the top, and as you said a lot of SF-PF type players, which would be precisely what we'd be missing if we took Achiuwa, who projects to be a PF-C kind of player.

Sorry Sugus I read it wrong about tanking my bad. Yeah when watching Poku I keep thinking of Dallas and wondering if he can physically handle the NBA it sucks for Dallas to have all that money invested in a player who may go down at any game it’s not a question of will it’s a question of when he will go down.

Another thing I like about Precious is he definitely has that Dog in him he ain’t going to get punked and definitely won’t back down from Morris the Spurs Could always use more toughness.

On a side note check out a YouTube - Best Fit For NBA Draft by Sub Me In Coach. Pretty good video think us might like it.