Lowe: Someone in league texted me and said there's a little bit of buzz about 2 for 11 + Aldridge

[exstatic]

If the Spurs give GS their 11th then the it would not matter on GS making their pick as you correctly stated they only have to make a 1st rd pick every other year it does not have to be their pick. Since GS made a pick last year I dont know why this is coming up. We could still trade for thier pick this year since I think GS has their pick for next year and Min pick as well. We would not be able to trade for Min pick this year (unless giving a pick back) till after they draft because of this rule since they have traded away their pick next year and I dont think they have another one.

The point is, if you have a player in mind, you don’t WANT to trade for the pick unless you know that player is there. I’m sure GS is talking to multiple teams. That’s also why they give teams 15 minutes on the clock. They probably have several prospective deals lined up, and they may need to make 2-3 calls to get to the deal.

If GS were to trade the actual pick, they would be unable to trade a pick at the deadline, probably in March this year. That could e a good trade they may have lined up. You always want your options open, which is why teams trade the player rights at draft time.

[talkspurs]

-How does that make any sense? Why should the Spurs care if Golden State gets future cap space if the Spurs get the #2 pick in the draft. That's the obvious tradeoff that would be required for the Spurs to get their highest pick in 23 years.

-Also, Golden State holds the power in a potential trade because they have an asset that the Spurs seemingly want. If the Spurs want to make a deal, they likely aren't going to be able to keep #11. Also, no way Golden State gives up that Minny 2021 first round pick -- which is likely to fall in the top ten of a better draft.

Its not so much that the Spurs care about clearing up GS cap space it is that they are having to take it on. People take on bad contracts and get compensated by picks. People also trade players and get compensated in picks/players. LMA is not on a bad contract and he gives them a chance to win now. not in a few years when their players would be old. Wiggins hurts their tax and if traded here would hurt our salary cap. You dont give up 2 things (player cap space) for a slight move up in draft especially one this week.

GS does not hold the power they both have something the other team wants. Without a big GS le hopes are lower. They also would be in worse taxes if they keep him. Yes Spurs would want the #2 pick but it is not like GS would not want what the Spurs have as well.

[talkspurs]

The point is, if you have a player in mind, you don’t WANT to trade for the pick unless you know that player is there. I’m sure GS is talking to multiple teams. That’s also why they give teams 15 minutes on the clock. They probably have several prospective deals lined up, and they may need to make 2-3 calls to get to the deal.

If GS were to trade the actual pick, they would be unable to trade a pick at the deadline, probably in March this year. That could e a good trade they may have lined up. You always want your options open, which is why teams trade the player rights at draft time.

I knew about wanting to make sure we got the player we wanted in the trade did not think about them having a pick for this year so they could trade a 2021 pick later. If they had our pick though it would not matter but if I remember you are one (like me) that does not want to inlcude our 11th so they would need to make their pick then trade to us so they could trade their 2021 if they wanted to.

[exstatic]

Its not so much that the Spurs care about clearing up GS cap space it is that they are having to take it on. People take on bad contracts and get compensated by picks. People also trade players and get compensated in picks/players. LMA is not on a bad contract and he gives them a chance to win now. not in a few years when their players would be old. Wiggins hurts their tax and if traded here would hurt our salary cap. You dont give up 2 things (player cap space) for a slight move up in draft especially one this week.

GS does not hold the power they both have something the other team wants. Without a big GS le hopes are lower. They also would be in worse taxes if they keep him. Yes Spurs would want the #2 pick but it is not like GS would not want what the Spurs have as well.

LMA has made it pretty clear that he’s going to finish in Portland. If he plays here next year, he will walk next summer. If he gets traded to GS, and wins a ring, maybe he postpones and signs a 1+1. He’s not a real asset to us, past this season. Think of him as useful salary ballast for this trade.

[talkspurs]

LMA has made it pretty clear that he’s going to finish in Portland. If he plays here next year, he will walk next summer. If he gets traded to GS, and wins a ring, maybe he postpones and signs a 1+1. He’s not a real asset to us, past this season. Think of him as useful salary ballast for this trade.

Right not useful to us but is useful to them. He would give us cap space if he leaves which we could use to get other players or other picks for teams dumping players.

[cd021]

Its not so much that the Spurs care about clearing up GS cap space it is that they are having to take it on. People take on bad contracts and get compensated by picks. People also trade players and get compensated in picks/players. LMA is not on a bad contract and he gives them a chance to win now. not in a few years when their players would be old. Wiggins hurts their tax and if traded here would hurt our salary cap. You dont give up 2 things (player cap space) for a slight move up in draft especially one this week.

GS does not hold the power they both have something the other team wants. Without a big GS le hopes are lower. They also would be in worse taxes if they keep him. Yes Spurs would want the #2 pick but it is not like GS would not want what the Spurs have as well.

-Sure, Wiggins is a horrible contract and under normal cir stances it would likely require at least two first round picks to unload a contract of that size. That said, the Warriors are willing to trade the #2 pick in the draft. That pick is not only much higher than most picks that get traded in deals to off load salary but there's the fact that # 2 picks virtually never get traded.

-Aldridge is probably a bit overpaid, and is certain to be if he doesn't waive his 15% trade kicker in a hypothetical trade (that would up his salary to $27.7 million). That said, he's still a good player and GSW apparently likes him enough to seemingly entertain trading back several spots for him.

I get the point about giving up the 11th pick and Aldridge and taking on Wiggins contract, in exchange for the #2 pick. Still, its the #2 pick and its an extremely valuable asset-- especially to the Spurs, who are seemingly ready to start a years long rebuilding process.

Trading up 9 spots normally requires multiple first round picks or pick(s) and a young asset. It seems that the Spurs probably aren't looking to move one of their young players so being able to move a vet, on an expiring deal, in their place is actually a win for the Spurs. Moving on from at 35 year old, that seems unlikely to want to re-sign after next season, as the center piece of a deal involving the #2 pick seems like a no-brainer. Also; the Spurs, at least as reported, don't seem like they'd have to mortgage the future by giving up a future first.

Golden State definitely has the power, they can opt not to trade their pick to the Spurs just for Aldridge and to take on Wiggins. There is probably a better deal to be had unless the Spurs include their 11th pick.

[talkspurs]

Golden State definitely has the power, they can opt not to trade their pick to the Spurs just for Aldridge and to take on Wiggins. There is probably a better deal to be had unless the Spurs include their 11th pick.

They do not have complete power. They have tried to trade #2 and people keep rejecting when it has Wiggins attached to it. Teams do not want to take on his salary. As you said they have not just been talking to the Spurs but no one else wants to take on his contract and give them a big for #2. Bigs (good ones at least) are in short supply. Only ones that I hear out there on the trade markert are LMA, horford, Turner after that your dropping down to Deadmon. The one I have not really heard them going after that would not be bad for them would be Allen in Brooklyn.

[Sugus]

A lot of homerism in this thread. The more I think about it, the less I see any kind of deal with GS happening. They have other options from teams that can offer both future picks, and better players, and LMA at 35 coming off a shoulder surgery that made him miss the bubble is hard from a safety net against All-Star bigs like AD - especially when he's a one year rental if they don't ring. I can't see Golden State giving up a #2 pick for that, even if #11 is included; and yes, I know they have to offload the salary from #2 and/or Wiggins' contracts to make the numbers close for next season. That doesn't mean it has to be us trading with them. Most comments I've seen give the Spurs an oddly high bargaining ground, which they just don't have.

That doesn't mean no trade is possible, I just don't see it happening with the Warriors, even though I'd personally love for it. If the rumors from that ATL insider are true, there might be picks to be had in the 5-8 range, which the Spurs could also be interested in. The general notion seems to be that the FO isn't staying still in regards to the draft, both from the multiple reports coinciding in the Spurs inquiring about possible trade partners, and the fact that they've worked out top lottery picks. If there's one year that the Spurs were likely to trade up, it'd be this one for sure... That's the feeling I get.

How many days is it, 10 until the draft? I'm excited, tbh.

[ginobilized]

LMA on the Warriors would be very difficult to contain. They could beat you in so many ways.
He'd definitely put pressure on defenses to pick their poison. He's still capable of scoring inside and in the mid-range.
His ability to play physical, by today's standards would be ideal for GS. He can still score 30pts in a playoff game, I don't see the other bigs mentioned doing this.
The Spurs might have some leverage here by having the best player for GS.

[pad300]

No way Spurs should give up Aldridge and 11, we will help GS save 50mil and make them more well equipped to challenge for champion, whereas we are taking the risk that Wiseman is picked by the Wolves or he is not up to standard we will be forced to seriously overpay Poeltl as we will have no cap space to sign a starting big if Aldridge and Poeltl are both gone. If we keep 11 or get Wolves 21 pick at least I can accept it.

I think you're understating this financial issues enormously. The Wiggins contract is for $31,579,390 and $33,616,770 in 21/22 and 22/23. If they keep that contract, in both years, GSW will be paying the repeater luxury tax, $3.50 for every $1.00 over (and the contract will entirely be in luxury tax space). $65 million * (1+3.5) = $292.5 million . No franchise will take that financial hit. They need to move at least one of Wiggins, Draymond, Curry or Klay. Assuming they don't want to blow up the next couple of years of possible contention, it's Wiggins that moves...

[TD 21]

Yes, in principle I agree with you, but if you read my original post I said "if he puts in the work" then the argument to that was, well some players are what they are and that DeMar is the better playmaker and overall the better offensive player, to which I replied that DeMar at the age of 24 was not the player that he is today.

Anyways, I never said that Wiggins will be as good as DeMar, what I am saying is that he has the potential if he commits himself, and even if he doesn't improve as much his defense and three point shooting make him a good fit with our team. Think about it, DJ, Derrick, and Wiggins have the potential to be the best defensive backcourt in the NBA.

If he had the kind of work ethic you're alluding to, it'd have revealed itself by now and he'd likely be markedly better than he is (even with a poor basketball IQ). Six years in, with financial security for the remainder of his life, isn't going lead to him magically finding religion, particularly on a re-building team like this.

He's neither a good defender or 3-point shooter, though. Think smaller, worse version of young Gay. Inefficient ISO scorer, who sucks at everything else. Counting stats without context are irrelevant. Look at the catch all metrics.

[alpha_HaZE]

If he had the kind of work ethic you're alluding to, it'd have revealed itself by now and he'd likely be markedly better than he is (even with a poor basketball IQ). Six years in, with financial security for the remainder of his life, isn't going lead to him magically finding religion, particularly on a re-building team like this.

He's neither a good defender or 3-point shooter, though. Think smaller, worse version of young Gay. Inefficient ISO scorer, who sucks at everything else. Counting stats without context are irrelevant. Look at the catch all metrics.

Like I said, I don't think he has the work ethic to improve the way DeMar did, but I am not saying he is not going to do it. You never know what motivates people, so I really do think we agree.

[R. DeMurre]

I think you're understating this financial issues enormously. The Wiggins contract is for $31,579,390 and $33,616,770 in 21/22 and 22/23. If they keep that contract, in both years, GSW will be paying the repeater luxury tax, $3.50 for every $1.00 over (and the contract will entirely be in luxury tax space). $65 million * (1+3.5) = $292.5 million . No franchise will take that financial hit. They need to move at least one of Wiggins, Draymond, Curry or Klay. Assuming they don't want to blow up the next couple of years of possible contention, it's Wiggins that moves...

That's a lot of money, even for a billionaire like Joe Lacom & Co... They paid $450 million for the entire team in 2010. If this trade rumor is true, I'm guessing the hold up is the Spurs trying to play hardball and not include #11, or asking for an extra pick next year.

[R. DeMurre]

If he had the kind of work ethic you're alluding to, it'd have revealed itself by now and he'd likely be markedly better than he is (even with a poor basketball IQ). Six years in, with financial security for the remainder of his life, isn't going lead to him magically finding religion, particularly on a re-building team like this.

He's neither a good defender or 3-point shooter, though. Think smaller, worse version of young Gay. Inefficient ISO scorer, who sucks at everything else. Counting stats without context are irrelevant. Look at the catch all metrics.

The metrics are kinda mind-boggling. In '17-'18 (his only winning season), these were the Offensive and Defensive ratings for the top Timberwolves:

KAT: 127 ORtg... 107 DRtg
Butler: 122.........110
Taj Gibson: 123.....112
Jeff Teague: 111.....112
Wiggins: 101.....113

Wiggins has never had a season where his numbers weren't upside down.

[Chinook]

I think you're understating this financial issues enormously. The Wiggins contract is for $31,579,390 and $33,616,770 in 21/22 and 22/23. If they keep that contract, in both years, GSW will be paying the repeater luxury tax, $3.50 for every $1.00 over (and the contract will entirely be in luxury tax space). $65 million * (1+3.5) = $292.5 million . No franchise will take that financial hit. They need to move at least one of Wiggins, Draymond, Curry or Klay. Assuming they don't want to blow up the next couple of years of possible contention, it's Wiggins that moves...

Exactly, the second-overall pick isn't free either. Too many folks seem to be overlooking that SA becomes a tax team if they do this deal. Of all years, this would be the worse one to be a tax team in, because owners are basically letting the players make more money than the revenue should allow. Not only would SA have to pay some tax, but they'd miss out on what could be huge tax payments from other teams. Then because the owners are loaning the players cap space, there's no reason to believe the cap will expand much if at all. So that increasing Wiggins deal will be a constant source of pressure on the team's finances.

GS does not have the power here. It's not clear there's even a clear number two guy that ANYONE wants, let alone SA. For them, just staying the course is probably not an option. Maybe SA doesn't offer the better deal, but there's a clear limit to where the deal stops making sense for SA, and it's not too far past 2 and Wiggins for LMA, DMDR or Gay/Mills.

[exstatic]

Right not useful to us but is useful to them. He would give us cap space if he leaves which we could use to get other players or other picks for teams dumping players.

Can you get a #2 overall from some other team? If not, strike while the iron is hot. BTW, no good FA will sign here, and you’re not going to,find a better cap space rental than Wiggins for #2. You’re just not.

[talkspurs]

Can you get a #2 overall from some other team? If not, strike while the iron is hot. BTW, no good FA will sign here, and you’re not going to,find a better cap space rental than Wiggins for #2. You’re just not.

#2 is not a normal #2. It is a risky pick. I think he will be good but many players before have thought they would be good as well. This is also considered more of a flat draft. So the difference between 2 and 11 is not much of a difference. You also say # is a good cap rental but we would have to do something to get under the cap. not resign a player or trade or something. We also are giving them something that helps them win a championship. Yes this is not guaranteed but it is a much better chance.

[baseline bum]

LMA has made it pretty clear that he’s going to finish in Portland. If he plays here next year, he will walk next summer. If he gets traded to GS, and wins a ring, maybe he postpones and signs a 1+1. He’s not a real asset to us, past this season. Think of him as useful salary ballast for this trade.

I see no way he'd turn down a fat 3 year extension if Golden State offered. I don't think he'd turn down one from the Spurs much less a le contender in a prime market like the Warriors.

[cd021]

They do not have complete power. They have tried to trade #2 and people keep rejecting when it has Wiggins attached to it. Teams do not want to take on his salary. As you said they have not just been talking to the Spurs but no one else wants to take on his contract and give them a big for #2. Bigs (good ones at least) are in short supply. Only ones that I hear out there on the trade markert are LMA, horford, Turner after that your dropping down to Deadmon. The one I have not really heard them going after that would not be bad for them would be Allen in Brooklyn.

-Which teams have rejected a trade with Golden State? Teams can't even make trades yet.

-Bigs are in good supply, that's why a player like Poeltl likely isn't likely going to get a big offer. In fact, there are 3 starting caliber centers expected to go in the top 10 of of this draft. Aldridge is better than many bigs but not enough to solely justify trading the number 2 pick in the draft for.

-In essence, it seems that GSW is using the number 2 pick to try and offload Wiggins, while still staying in the lottery and also adding an impact player. The Spurs reported package seems to do that but that's not necessarily an offer than another team can't beat. Still, the Spurs should jump at the chance to make that deal if the opportunity presents itself.

[TD 21]

Exactly, the second-overall pick isn't free either. Too many folks seem to be overlooking that SA becomes a tax team if they do this deal. Of all years, this would be the worse one to be a tax team in, because owners are basically letting the players make more money than the revenue should allow. Not only would SA have to pay some tax, but they'd miss out on what could be huge tax payments from other teams. Then because the owners are loaning the players cap space, there's no reason to believe the cap will expand much if at all. So that increasing Wiggins deal will be a constant source of pressure on the team's finances.

GS does not have the power here. It's not clear there's even a clear number two guy that ANYONE wants, let alone SA. For them, just staying the course is probably not an option. Maybe SA doesn't offer the better deal, but there's a clear limit to where the deal stops making sense for SA, and it's not too far past 2 and Wiggins for LMA, DMDR or Gay/Mills.

Nah. Wiggins would obviously be the DeRozan replacement. He'd inevitably be turned into lesser salary or if they did the Horford 3 way with the 76ers/Clippers you suggested, they'd likely not re-sign Poeltl and if necessary find a taker for Gay for minimal salary in return.

The Warriors have all of the power. They don't have to do anything and probably won't, with the exception of moving down slightly and picking up some decent young depth in the process.

[talkspurs]

-Which teams have rejected a trade with Golden State? Teams can't even make trades yet.

-Bigs are in good supply, that's why a player like Poeltl likely isn't likely going to get a big offer. In fact, there are 3 starting caliber centers expected to go in the top 10 of of this draft. Aldridge is better than many bigs but not enough to solely justify trading the number 2 pick in the draft for.

-In essence, it seems that GSW is using the number 2 pick to try and offload Wiggins, while still staying in the lottery and also adding an impact player. The Spurs reported package seems to do that but that's not necessarily an offer than another team can't beat. Still, the Spurs should jump at the chance to make that deal if the opportunity presents itself.

It has been well reported that them and Mini have been trying to trade their picks. Some teams besides ours that I have seen linked to them are Phli, Phoenix, Milwaukee.

You say bigs are in good supply. I put good bigs, who are the good bigs that are in such large supply?

[Chinook]

Nah. Wiggins would obviously be the DeRozan replacement. He'd inevitably be turned into lesser salary or if they did the Horford 3 way with the 76ers/Clippers you suggested, they'd likely not re-sign Poeltl and if necessary find a taker for Gay for minimal salary in return.

That doesn't address anything I said. Also acquiring Horford doesn't do anything but make the finances worse, and while they might be able to dodge the tax by letting Poeltl walk, it's weird that you'd be okay with that. You've said multiple times that they can't let "an asset" like Jakob walk for nothing.

"Inevitably turned into lesser salary?" Yeah right. If it were so easy to turn Wiggins into lesser salary, GS wouldn't have any need to pay to move him.

The Warriors have all of the power. They don't have to do anything and probably won't, with the exception of moving down slightly and picking up some decent young depth in the process.

Feels like you're just repeating yourself. GS doesn't have all the power. They WANT to not pay a huge tax pill. We know that by them coming and saying they probably won't use their TE. Maybe they'll grit and bear it, and maybe SA and the rest of the league and grit and bear not moving up to 2. Certainly, unless you specifically want one of Edwards/Wiseman, you might just to go Charlotte and try your luck, or Chicago, Cleveland, ATL or so on. All of those trade-ups SA have been linked to are lower than GS's pick anyway. SA doesn't have to and might prefer not to move that high if they really do want Deni or Okongwu or Toppin. They could probably get one at 6, and ATL has been rumored to be a much better trade partner. With GS trying to avoid paying excess tax, they're probably not going to be able to get the sweethart deals from lower-seeded teams you're implying they'd get easily. Best I could see if moving down to 7 with Detroit, but they aren't a great fit for getting GS the win-now player they want to replace Wiggins with. The Pistons might be able to rope SA into the deal at that point, but I don't know if either team wants to pay to give SA the value they'd need to do the deal without 2 going to SA.

[exstatic]

Nah. Wiggins would obviously be the DeRozan replacement. He'd inevitably be turned into lesser salary or if they did the Horford 3 way with the 76ers/Clippers you suggested, they'd likely not re-sign Poeltl and if necessary find a taker for Gay for minimal salary in return.

The Warriors have all of the power. They don't have to do anything and probably won't, with the exception of moving down slightly and picking up some decent young depth in the process.

This entire thread you have ing failed to understand the absolute financial storm GS is currently headed for.

[TD 21]

That doesn't address anything I said. Also acquiring Horford doesn't do anything but make the finances worse, and while they might be able to dodge the tax by letting Poeltl walk, it's weird that you'd be okay with that. You've said multiple times that they can't let "an asset" like Jakob walk for nothing.

"Inevitably turned into lesser salary?" Yeah right. If it were so easy to turn Wiggins into lesser salary, GS wouldn't have any need to pay to move him.



Feels like you're just repeating yourself. GS doesn't have all the power. They WANT to not pay a huge tax pill. We know that by them coming and saying they probably won't use their TE. Maybe they'll grit and bear it, and maybe SA and the rest of the league and grit and bear not moving up to 2. Certainly, unless you specifically want one of Edwards/Wiseman, you might just to go Charlotte and try your luck, or Chicago, Cleveland, ATL or so on. All of those trade-ups SA have been linked to are lower than GS's pick anyway. SA doesn't have to and might prefer not to move that high if they really do want Deni or Okongwu or Toppin. They could probably get one at 6, and ATL has been rumored to be a much better trade partner. With GS trying to avoid paying excess tax, they're probably not going to be able to get the sweethart deals from lower-seeded teams you're implying they'd get easily. Best I could see if moving down to 7 with Detroit, but they aren't a great fit for getting GS the win-now player they want to replace Wiggins with. The Pistons might be able to rope SA into the deal at that point, but I don't know if either team wants to pay to give SA the value they'd need to do the deal without 2 going to SA.

It addresses all of it because the point is they'd have many ways out. They wouldn't just make this trade (again: not happening, but hypothetically) and more or less call it an off season. Who said I'd be okay with letting Poeltl walk? I just said it'd be an option. If they had Wiseman and Horford, the need presumably wouldn't exist short or long term.

I meant DeRozan.

Want and willing to are two difference things. Either way, they're not taking a subpar return for the 2nd pick (even in this draft) because of the tax. I didn't imply any "sweetheart deals", just a decent or intriguing young player or young veteran.

This entire thread you have ing failed to understand the absolute financial storm GS is currently headed for.

No insider has said to this point that it's going to impact what they do and again, either way that's not going to be reason enough to throw a 2nd pick in the garbage.

I get that this is a Spurs forum and many don't follow the league closely, but the amount of homer-ism in this thread is off the charts.

[PhantomDashCam]

From a Golden State fan... excuse me, I mean writer's perspective:

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-rumored...010946045.html

Green is the heartbeat of the team and captain of the defense. Golden State would have to be highly motivated to send him elsewhere, and Aldridge isn't nearly enticing enough. As for Wiggins, the Warriors already are short on wings, and losing him would further exacerbate that. Not to mention, the Dubs are counting on Wiggins to either become their fourth star player or directly help them acquire one. Aldridge was a star for many seasons, but he isn't one anymore.
On top of the fact that Aldridge isn't worth giving up everything that was included in that proposed trade, he also doesn't fit in stylistically with how the Warriors want to play. He is a ball-stopper on offense and often an aloof defender. Yes, his proficiency shooting from the perimeter would be a nice addition, but not at the cost of everything else that would be thrown off.