Grades: Spurs at Grizzlies - Dec. 23, 2020

[exstatic]

Last 4-5 years Spurs are drafting higher and more talented players which can be molded into 2 way players developmentally. With lower draft picks, Spurs realize that 3D is the limit.

Half and half. DJ, Derrick, and Keldon were all selected at 29. The ones picked higher, with the exception of Devin at#11 seem to be more questionable. Lonnie could go either way, and Sammich is downright dubious.

[talkspurs]

Not saying I disagree with you (we should be wary of locking ourselves up into roleplayers taking up a bunch of the cap), but when you think about it, Lonnie having the second best game of his career in the first game of the season after an off-season of working on his game (I'm counting the pandemic window as the actual off-season here), it's an encouraging sign, don't you think?

At the end of the day, signing players isn't a death sentence. If you need to make room for a FA (unlikely scenario for the Spurs, but could happen), you can just trade one of the contracts. The problem is when you give big contracts to players who don't play up to their contract, AND are an undesireable archetype for the league. An athletic, playmaking, shooting, 22-24 year old wing? Yeah, that's exactly on demand in the modern market. I wouldn't worry about any deal we sign Lonnie to (within reason), unless something happens to him or his body, tbh.

Encouraging? eh it isnt discouraging but it is stil one game. He also started off kind of slow and turned it on latter. if he plays like he did in the second half then it wont be so bad but lets see him string the game together. I do like some of the passes he did but he needs to stay involved in the game.

While 16 mil is not hugh if he becomes a nothing player it could be hard to move him. Yes athletic players are in demand but there are also several that are not in the league also. If he puts several good game together then he would not be bad to have. I dont get why people are so into him and so anti Murray. the way people talk about him he is a young Jordan.

[BackHome]

Lol I don't think anyone has ever compared his potential to Jordan that might be taking it a tad bit to far. And to be honest as much grief as Walker has gotten DJ had probably gotten twice as much as he has been with us longer and on a big contract. It was nice to see them though both have a good game and I really hope they can improve because we need them both to achieve there max talent level if we ever want to be successful in winning games in the Playoffs.

One thing that I hate on this forum is that for some reason there is always by best player vs your best player in fighting. To me I think each one brings something different to the team and they all like each other and get along. For me that is great it keeps the Spurs cultural going less likely for a player to leave if they happy and players usually play better when they in a good environment.

[TD 21]

Surprised at the rotation, but wonder whether it was due to matchups. Of course, after that performance and given that Johnson is probably the best option to defend Siakam anyway, he has to go back to it, but I'm still not convinced it'll be utilized or can hold up as a constant.

[cjw]

It’s amazing the way this team looks when there’s no Forbes. I waited and waited and waited for Pop to finally bench his ass last year and it never came (before the bubble) Thank you Milwaukee and Bud for taking him off our hands.

We should all be thankful for Forbes. Without him, there is no way the Spurs would have been in position to draft Vassell.

[talkspurs]

Lol I don't think anyone has ever compared his potential to Jordan that might be taking it a tad bit to far. And to be honest as much grief as Walker has gotten DJ had probably gotten twice as much as he has been with us longer and on a big contract. It was nice to see them though both have a good game and I really hope they can improve because we need them both to achieve there max talent level if we ever want to be successful in winning games in the Playoffs.

One thing that I hate on this forum is that for some reason there is always by best player vs your best player in fighting. To me I think each one brings something different to the team and they all like each other and get along. For me that is great it keeps the Spurs cultural going less likely for a player to leave if they happy and players usually play better when they in a good environment.

I have not seen anyone mention him I said how people talk about him. They always talk about his athleticism and skill. Jordan also had heart and was a much better player. Lonnie to me doesnt have the heart and killer instinct. I agree that it is good they both had a good game. Dj is on a bigger contract but he has also played better. Lonnie has had about 5-6 good games (without looking) and I have seen some say he could be a perennial all star if he puts it together.

I agree and I was not trying to put them against one another and also that they bring different things to the team. Most people will stay where they like working even if they make less money. This is part of the reason I think we were able to keep the big 3 together. If they are not happy I think they will look for another place to work (im using work as I believe this is why more people leave a job for a new one).

[KobesAchilles]

Disagree. Maybe it wasn't on full display last night, and I wasn't expecting it to be, but Poeltl started this (pre)season by markedly trying to force his offensive game. He was backing down dudes in the post the second preseason game IIRC, and missed the shots, but that's the baby steps he needs to be taking. Of course, you'll think "why would I ever want Poeltl to back someone down?", and to an extent I agree , but as others have said, it's a mental thing with him. I wouldn't be surprised to see Poeltl try to score for himself a bit more, here and there, and ESPECIALLY once White gets back on the team. They have an even better connection than Lonnie does with Jak. Watch out for it.

He's not there yet, but the window isn't closed or near it. I also think once he gets the starting job from LMA, it'll help his confidence even more, similarly to White who vastly improved once he started games.

Sugs, he goes up soft man. That’s not even disputable.

[Sugus]

Sugs, he goes up soft man. That’s not even disputable.

Yes - but my point is, going up soft = / = "not putting in the work to get better offensively". The latter is clearly false, and Poeltl's play so far points to him trying to expand his offensive game.

[Sugus]

Encouraging? eh it isnt discouraging but it is stil one game. He also started off kind of slow and turned it on latter. if he plays like he did in the second half then it wont be so bad but lets see him string the game together. I do like some of the passes he did but he needs to stay involved in the game.

While 16 mil is not hugh if he becomes a nothing player it could be hard to move him. Yes athletic players are in demand but there are also several that are not in the league also. If he puts several good game together then he would not be bad to have. I dont get why people are so into him and so anti Murray. the way people talk about him he is a young Jordan.

Well, yeah, it's only been one game - there's not much of a sample size, for obvious reasons. I was just pointing out that it's funny/interesting that he's "hit the ground running" and had an above-average first season game, great for his standard. The rest of your argument presumes the Spurs would give Lonnie 16M/per without him stepping up his game, which is just not realistic. We have this entire season to see what he's worked on and developed, before we can even begin thinking about an extension - so I'm not worried about the Spurs overpaying him. Yet.

Oh, and people (me at least) are into him because he's got all the tools (athleticism, shooting, passing) and it's a matter of putting it all together. I don't think he's the next Jordan (he sure jumps like it tho), but I definitely think his ceiling is higher than DJ's (who's also older and has been in the league longer, meaning his current play is much closer to his ceiling than Lonnie's). But it's certainly a personal preference at heart.

[Slippy]

We could of been looking at this version of spurs last season.

All you really needed was Bryn Forbes out. Addition by subrtraction certainly applies here.

[spurs10]

So did who is in the SL after White returns and is back to speed?

[Atl Spur]

I think white will be fine with a Manu role if pop asked.

[phxspurfan]

For me, Poeltl can be the Luc Longley/Andrew Bogut of this team. An efficient 7 & 7 from him with good defense in 20-26 mpg wouldn't be eye-catching numbers, but it would help the Spurs immensely.

Sure, we can get that right now from DrewDaTower. Didnt need to reward Purrtl with a nice fat contract for that low level of production.


If he wasnt a high draft pick by the Raptors, he wouldnt have sniffed that deal. He would be out of the league playing in Europe or on a 2 way.


As low as I am on Sammich, I'd rather seem him do his poor man's Diaw impression than Purrt block a shot, grab 3 boards and pump fake another PG in 20 floor minutes for a game check. This is the ing NBA, the supposed best talent on Earth.

[TDMVPDPOY]

WTF nba.com dont have the game highlights but morants 44pt bs...fkn horse

[offset formation]

I think white will be fine with a Manu role if pop asked.

Keldon has said he would.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes - but my point is, going up soft = / = "not putting in the work to get better offensively". The latter is clearly false, and Poeltl's play so far points to him trying to expand his offensive game.

there is nothing in Poeltl's game that points to him trying to expand his offensive game. The only reason we know about it is because he has talked about working on it. He's worked on it for 2 years now with Spurs coaches and Tim Duncan, the best PF ever. And he has shown 0 improvement on that end. That should tell you everything you need to know

[JeffDuncan]

From the article, something I thought was worth adding:

-------
Keldon Johnson

... Johnson was also attentive on defense and didn’t hesitate to stick his nose in the middle of the action. ...
-------

In 32 minutes of play he committed only one foul. That's impressive, especially under the cir stances. His first game action, not in game shape yet, plays aggressively with high energy, the league getting all touchy feely about fouls, and yet, despite all that, not even a hint of him getting in foul trouble. I like it. (And yes, the refs were calling things -- Brooks fouled out for Memphis.)

So I thought I'd mention that.

[spurs10]

Keldon has said he would.

It will be interesting to see who Pop thinks will have the most impact off the bench and who we need against the other team's starters.

[talkspurs]

this is part of what Yahoo had about KJ and I agree,

"If a young player misses all of preseason due to a foot injury and coach Gregg Popovich starts him anyways, that should get your attention."

I also agree that him being aggressive and onlyhaveing one foul is good.

[R. DeMurre]

Sure, we can get that right now from DrewDaTower. Didnt need to reward Purrtl with a nice fat contract for that low level of production.



As low as I am on Sammich, I'd rather seem him do his poor man's Diaw impression than Purrt block a shot, grab 3 boards and pump fake another PG in 20 floor minutes for a game check. This is the ing NBA, the supposed best talent on Earth.

Eubanks and Poeltl aren't interchangable. Poeltl is taller, has a better wingspan, and has better offensive and defensive numbers. Eubanks last year had a BPM of -1.7, a DBPM of -0.3, and a VORP of exactly 0.0. Poeltl had a BPM of +2.5, a DBPM of +2.0, and a VORP of 1.3.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

[phxspurfan]

Eubanks and Poeltl aren't interchangable. Poeltl is taller, has a better wingspan, and has better offensive and defensive numbers. Eubanks last year had a BPM of -1.7, a DBPM of -0.3, and a VORP of exactly 0.0. Poeltl had a BPM of +2.5, a DBPM of +2.0, and a VORP of 1.3.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

Those metrics are meaningless, considering

- Eubanks was only put in when games were out of hand, which is mostly because we were being pummeled for the most past last year
- Eubanks was likely playing with teammates who weren't playing hard anymore, and we were being blown out. They weren't running plays or executing them very poorly, and no one was setting him up well
- Eubanks had a much smaller sample size in terms of minutes, and he was likely playing with end of bench guys versus Purrtl playing with starters or the main bench unit
- The team sucked ass last year, and so the VORP/impact toward winning/performance type stats doesn't work, as in wins he likely didn't play. With our team last year when we won, we weren't blowing anyone out usually. And we were usually getting our pushed in.

Look, I can cherry pick stats too:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_...&p2yrfrom=2020

Total minutes played: Eubanks 272 - Purrtl 1171 (Purrtl played 430% more minutes than Drew)

FG%: Eubanks .642 - Purrtl .624 (which the eye test verifies. Eubanks goes up strong, Purrtl is a weak POS)

eFG%: Eubanks .649 - Purrtl .624 (Eubanks' advanced/effective FG% went up, Purrtl is what he is)

Total Rebounds per 36 minutes: Eubanks 11.3 - Purrtl 11.5 (Eubanks equaled Purrtl's rebounding numbers, while Purrtl played with much better teammates, and Eubanks played in garbage time)

FT%: Eubanks 77% - Purrtl 47% (wtf 47% for a guy paid starter money...didn't even notice Purrtl was this bad in this dept. while Eubanks shooting a very respectable % for a center)

Total Blocks per 36 minutes: Eubanks 2.3 - Purrtl 2.9 (not that much different. Ofc Purrtl is better at blocking shots, but the per 36 shows they both have skills there)

Total Points per 36 minutes: Eubanks 14.2 - Purrtl 11.4 (close, but Eubanks can score more efficiently per the eFG, so this also makes sense to see in the per 36 point totals.)

Offensive Rating per 100 posessions: Eubanks 120 - Purrtl 125 (comparable offensively)

Defensive Rating per 100 posessions: Eubanks 111 - Purrtl 108 (comparable defensively)

2020-2021 Salary: Eubanks $1.6MM - Purrtl $8.1MM (Purrtl getting paid 5x more than Drew, both on new contracts.)

Basically the point is clear, Purrtl didn't deserve that contract at all. Eubanks, while not a stud, in very limited minutes, put up very similar numbers to Purrtl's strengths (rebounding, blocks, defense) and shat on him on the offensive side (points, shooting %). Not saying Eubanks should start or anything, but Purrtl needs to step it up and earn his paycheck. So far, Eubanks is the much better value for the money we pay him.


Oh and if Eubanks starts hitting 3s at more than 35%, this argument is ing over.

[exstatic]

Drew’s main issue is that while he has decent hops, he’s pretty pedestrian, laterally, which is where good to great defenders make their bones.

[phxspurfan]

Drew’s main issue is that while he has decent hops, he’s pretty pedestrian, laterally, which is where good to great defenders make their bones.

Agree. I always saw in him a poor ban's Baynes. Purrtl obviously has a lot more potential being taller and longer, with more capability to switch. But he's not fulfilling that at all. As has been said, he has not gotten better in ample time. He's 24 and was drafted when he was 20 IIRC. Meanwhile Drew seems to be putting in the work and improving, and he's 22.

[R. DeMurre]

Agree. I always saw in him a poor ban's Baynes. Purrtl obviously has a lot more potential being taller and longer, with more capability to switch. But he's not fulfilling that at all. As has been said, he has not gotten better in ample time. He's 24 and was drafted when he was 20 IIRC. Meanwhile Drew seems to be putting in the work and improving, and he's 22.

Drew is 23 and turns 24 on Feb 1st, which is about 5 weeks away. I get your opinion that Poeltl has underperformed, but the idea that the Spurs could simply replace Poeltl with Eubanks and not have it affect winning in a big way just doesn't hold water for me.

[C-Dub]

AGREED. Jakob is a better player and has a better basketball IQ than Eubanks and it's not even close. I like Drew but he's no defensive presence as Poeltl by far and offensively he's about even but not even sure about that sense he's only performed against G-League compe ion and garbage time NBA compe ion in his career.