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Serious question: isn’t he mostly an energetic roll man? Does he have a consistent shot/3ball (aside from what’s in the clips) or something else of note?
Yeah, but we didn’t have half that money this year.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Serious question: isn’t he mostly an energetic roll man? Does he have a consistent shot/3ball (aside from what’s in the clips) or something else of note?
Yes, that's what it looks like to me. His offensive stats could be inflated too by how much Trae draws in the defense to himself.
Yeah but we desperately need a roll man that can score. Poetl gives us 5 points a game and LMA only pops. It’s a major flaw in our team as of now. It’s definitely an overpay but if he some people are still high on Poetls offensive upside then they should be beyond stoked on this guys
He'll be paid three times more than Poetl. We'll have better offense but way worse on defense. People will be crying about how no one can guard shots inside. Then we'll be back where we are now. We need two way players, not one way ones. It would be like signing a center version of Forbes.
not if Collins plays PF. He's not a Center anyway. Put him next to Poeltl and we'll even have more shot blocking than what we have now
Could have tried to sign and trade using Murray.
no, Collins is a good basketball player, Jeff Ayers would be the center version of Forbes.
If Collins was a PF, the Hawks would play him alongside Capela (who is similar to Poetl). But they don't, because you can't play two bigs these days unless they're generational talent. If having Collins play PF with a shot blocking C was an advantage, the Hawks would use it. They're playing DeAndre Hunter at PF, which is the exact prototype we should be looking for.
Again, last night in the Clippers vs Nuggets game both teams were playing two PGs, two wings, and one center. Collins can't keep up with a wing. He will get destroyed Forbes-style. Stop forcing traditional positions on players who can't play them anymore.
Before someone says, "well, you make teams adjust to you. Not the other way around". The Nuggets are ALREADY equipped to do that but they don't do it, because playing two bigs is not as big of an advantage people think it is anymore.
Collins had 21ppg on a bad team (Hawks 19/20) on 58/40/80, his efficiency on a good or elite team in theory goes from great to elite, if he is worth 29Mi / year? maybe, if he can be one of the top three scorers on an contender team? if his numbers from the previous season are sustainable (he is only 23), there is no doubt.
Defense is the concern, not offense. And it's debatable whether his stats are inflated or not due to Trae shooting from half court and him just having a ton of spacing to do his thing + second chance points. Perhaps stat geeks can chime in.
You know why they don't play him next to Capela? Because Capela is injured.
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 12-26-2020 at 11:16 AM.
inflated statistics work when it comes with high volume and bad efficiency, guys like Booker (or Collins 19), who do it with high efficiency in bad teams, only tend to improve in good teams, so this premise is wrong, about playing with Trae? well all the bigs in history not called Duncan (or Akeem) needed stars on the perimeter to look better than they really were (Shaq for example), and if White is what some believe it to be, then it shouldn't be a big downgrade between play with him or with Trae
Bet you $ they won't bench Hunter for Capela when Capela is back from his injury.
Low volume, high efficiency can indicate he's finding open shots, not that he's actually skilled
White is not the dynamic playmaker Trae is. Never will be. This team won't allow White to just chuck it up like Trae does from half court. Trae has a gravity few have in the league.
Here's John's shot chart:
This shows to me that he's not a 3 level scorer.
Your takes get worse by the day. Collins is 6'9'' which is by far not the traditional size of a Center and most NBA teams nowadays still start players taller than him. So there is no traditional position forcing going on here, he's clearly a PF with that size. 1 inch taller than Jerami Grant and nobody would start Grant at Center. Besides that Collins actually is mobile, you're acting like he's LaMarcus Aldridge. The guy can easily guard forwards and should even be able to switch on guards. It's not his mobility that makes him a mediocre defender, it's his footwork
Poeltl is unfairly stereotyped. He's one of the best rim protectors in the league. Top fiveish in defensive field goal percentage within' 3 feet of the rim last season to go with an elite block percentage. He's also a solid finisher. His ppg are a function of minutes/usage and irrelevant. His screening/rolling/passing/finishing helps an offense function.
Collins could fit well next to him since he'll probably never average more than mid 20sish minutes, opening up minutes for the former to play some C.
The Hawks supposedly offered him $90M and could have a '19 Celtics esque chemistry problem brewing. They could be a stealth Harden team.
Tell me how much you've watched the Hawks?
Because he doesn't have the size of a center proves even more how out of place he is defensively because he can't play either PF or C on defense like Forbes was caught in between PG and SG.
Put your money where your mouth is and show me that your take is better than mine. I'm not right all the time, never said I was. But I'm telling you, if what you say is correct then the Hawks would play Collins at PF with Capela at C when he's back.
who talked about the low volume? now you are trying to create a point (because you don't like the player, because you believe he is not good at what you think is necessary or because you believe he is not worth the potential money), even if it disregards reality.Low volume, high efficiency can indicate he's finding open shots, not that he's actually skilled
White is not the dynamic playmaker Trae is. Never will be. This team won't allow White to just chuck it up like Trae does from half court. Trae has a gravity few have in the league.
Here's John's shot chart:
This shows to me that he's not a 3 level scorer.
I've said that if the Spurs get him then they believe in his upside. I'm neither for or against the guy, just challenging people's thinking of Collins being a one and done idea that would solve a lot of our problems. I'm bringing into light that it could hurt us more than it helps us. I was for Collins for a little while until I realized the drawbacks.
Collins is not a center, he is a forward, and probably one of the only pure pf in the league, and he is offensively good at basketball.
Which is exactly what they will do
My comment was directed at yours saying stop forcing players into traditional positions and I just showed you that that ain't the case here. Collins is mobile enough to play PF so there's no reason to believe he can't play PF. He's played PF for the past 3 years. And Collins strength on D is help defense, which he can show much better when he plays PF to help the C out flying in to block shots. He'd actually fit in extremely well next to LaMarcus if you think about it
sorry, but i'm not attacking you or anything, i don't know if he would be my choice for a young talent from another team (although as i said, i believe his eff will probably explode in a better team), but some people seem to believe in the utopia of that Spurs will drafted 5 6 or 7 players (1 in each position) and all will be part of the future core of the championship, this is not happening, at some point, they will probably look for talent outside.
Collins and Capela will start together when healthy. Gallinari will be the third big and play as much or more than Capela. To get those three commensurate minutes, it'll leave scraps for Okongwu and Hunter (he'll have to mostly play "SF").
Post Aldridge, Spurs need a stretch big. If it's not someone like Collins, it'll have to be someone like Olynyk.
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