That was always the part that made no sense. Given the cir stances, I knew they wouldn't receive a commensurate return, so as much as I couldn't stand DeRozan's game, I could understand it, as well as no Siakam/Anunoby.
But the cost of not getting one of them and only a single 1st (destined to be 27th-30th) should have meant the Raptors were forced to take Gasol instead of Green.
Instead, they gave them the ideal roster construction, while destroying their own in the process.
I highly doubt this is the reason but the spurs may have given the raptors Danny green as a gift lol with the raptors winning the championship and having an amazing team built perfectly around Kawhi and he still decides to leave, shows that no matter what kawhi was going to leave any team he went to for LA
Rumors were flying fast and furious at the time. But didn't the Laker rumor include a bunch of draft picks too?
8 whole points for big boy demar!
Welp, jinx thread?
Ingram: 28/11/6
DDR: 8/3/10, 25%fg
Could the Spurs have gotten Ingram had they pushed harder for a trade? I think he's looking like a really good player right now. I do recall reading rumours that they were not even offering him, but I was so angry with Kawhi at the time, I didn't really look at the Lakers offer close enough. I would have taken a package around him plus draft picks over a Derozen package if it was my choice. If the Lakers weren't offering that, well, then, them. As much as I don't like Kawhi, hopefully he takes them out in the playoffs.
"Brandon Ingram is the first Pelicans player with 80 Pts, 20 Reb and 20 Ast through the team’s first 3 games of a season. The only player to do it for any team last season was Luka Doncic."
I think he's turning into a fine player. Why are people saying that he's empty calories? Did you guys watch him all of last season (I didn't, so that is why I am asking)?
He was drafted by the Lakers, therefore he must be a bust. That's the narrative certain people are trying to push.
Some spurfans are simply not ready to admit the Lakers made a competent move in the draft or that a Lakers draft pick turned out to be good. That's all it boils down to tbh.
I've been watching BI since he was a rookie and you could see his game progressing every season. So i'm not surprised by his performance as of late.
Yeah, since I'm a Spurs fan, I didn't think about that angle I think I am going to make an effort to watch Pelicans games this season. I was interested in watching them for Zion Williams, but I think I am now more interested in seeing Brandon Ingram play. I was very impressed with his performance last night. I thought he was great. I saw he averaged 23.8ppg last season, but I never watched him or the Pelicans (I didn't even watch the Spurs games against the Pelicans), so I don't know how well he really did play. Looks like the Lakers really did make a great pick. Also, correct me if I am wrong, he's bulked up a decent amount since being traded by the Lakers?
Did the Lakers offer Ingram in any trade scenarios for Kawhi? I didn't follow it closely enough as I was that pissed off with Kawhi, I don't remember.
Also, anyone know why NO traded Jrue Holiday? I still find that a head scratching move.
They did not offer Ingram.
because they believe that this is something real, when it is not, nor has it ever been (empty stat player take), example: Curry is doing worse than Lavine with a similar roster, it means that he is an "empty stats player" and has always been a lucky guy, or that Lavine is a good player in a bad situation? how would he do in a stacked team like the Warriors? you can't exclude one situation from the other.
about Ingram any mention in this sense is trolling (nobody can be purposely obtuse to that point), he always had potential superstar, and even in his last months in the lakers he was already playing like a star, he just has everything, talent, size and like young Durant, is an incompatibility for almost any player in the league.
Yeah, I thought so, but didn't remember as I was so angry with Kawhi and I didn't see equal value return in any situation on a trade. I told a friend at work, they only guy at the time I would do a 1 to 1 trade with is for Anthony Davis, so I just wasn't think clearly about guys like Ingram that had a lot of potential to improve. Do you think the Spurs asked for Ingram? Do you think the Spurs would have done a trade with them if he was included, or were they adamant of not dealing with the Lakers?
I haven't followed the Bulls for a while. So the Warriors and Bulls have pretty similar rosters this season and Lavine is doing better? So you don't believe in the empty calories term (certain players putting up big numbers being meaningless on bad teams? I definitely do, as it's easier to score when you're taking more shots and there is no pressure to win)? I'm not saying that all players on bad teams that are putting up big numbers aren't aren't great players, but sometimes, they really aren't as good as their stats indicate.
Thanks for the info about BI. I didn't realize that he was starting to break out with the Lakers before being traded. I think he's starting to look like a pretty legit player. It'll be interesting to see how he goes from here.
PATFO can still salvage the Kawhi trade by turning DeRozan into Harden.
DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay and a 1st for Harden, Gordon and Tucker.
-Harden, White, Vassell, Johnson, Poeltl
-Murray, Mills, Walker, Gordon, Tucker
Top 4 team in the West.
No way, sadly, that that trade goes down. Rockets are in asset stockpiling mode and won't be looking for win-now vets at all if they were to trade Harden. They're not (so) stupid, they know they're not sniffing contention with a Wall, Cousins, Wood core without James. We'd have to give up at least two first rounders, and one of Keldon, DWhite, Lonnie, Dejounte, maybe two, and that might not even be the best offer the Rockets will be fielding.
Not to mention, hard pass on Harden, for me at least. He can strip-club-hunt down in Atlanta.
Aldridge, Gay and DeRozan are all expiring contracts, almost 70 millions on expiring contracts is very enticing for a rebuilding team. And if we need to give a couple more assets, I'm fine with too. Mainly if it is Murray or, less ideal, Walker (not to mention Samanic). I wouldn't give up White, Keldon nor Vassell.
What I do know is that PATFO should call the Rockets' FO and ask "what would you want from us on a Harden trade?" and start negotiating from there.
The Spurs are one of the few teams with enough expiring salaries and intriguing young pieces to make a Harden trade work. Not doing our due dilligence on trying to persue this move would be negligent. And anyone saying they wouldn't want a top 5 player on the Spurs can kiss my ass, tbh.
Spurs don't have the most important piece, a centerpiece young player. They're also in conference/state, which means they'd more than likely have to pay a higher price than otherwise.
Let me guess, you're leaving Davis out of the top 5?
Hate to agree with my guy TD 21 on this, but the Spurs don't have the single biggest asset the Rockets would be after in a Harden trade - a young, franchise cornerstone kind of player. We know Keldon could turn into one, but the Rockets sure as won't believe that, and no other player on our team has that ceiling. Expiring contracts is good and all to make the trade work - but it's a non-starter if you don't have the asset the other team's looking for. Also, you're not taking into account that the other big asset the Rockets will be after are draft picks, since they don't have any of their own between traded picks and swaps.
Considering all this (and I agree with you, White-Keldon-Vassell are off the table for me too), I don't see a Harden-Spurs trade happening any time soon.
Same question I asked TD21: which are all these "young centerpieces" that teams would be willing to give up for Harden? Anyone I can think of is Simmons (although he's pretty far from a centerpiece, tbh).
Simmons isn't far from a centerpiece at all, and is exactly the piece Houston wants - to the point that I'm pretty confident that the Rockets will start leaking out rumors of fielding other teams' offers around the trade deadline, to try to force the Sixers into putting Ben on the table. The fact that he isn't a "desireable" centerpiece by your standards (which I guess is what you meant when you said "pretty far") is irrelevant when he's far and away the best player being offered, is very young, and to top it off is under contract for 5 more years. Rockets' negotiation tactics will predictably hover around tempting the Sixers, which could be exacerbated if the Sixers themselves don't have the best of starts to this season and start panicking around the deadline.
Other centerpieces off the top of my head are Jaylen Brown, though a longshot that Boston makes him available (especially to trade for Harden, I don't see it), Jamal Murray (I don't see it either but definitely could happen), and Brandon Ingram, who I don't even know if can be traded with his recent signing. That's the kind of player being requested for Harden, and the Spurs simply don't have it.
The Rockets can request anything they want, getting it it's a whole different thing. If we aren't willing to give up guys like White, Keldon and Vassell, what makes you think other teams would be willing to give up guys like Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram?
Like I said, the only big-name young guy that could be possibly on the move would be Ben Simmons, but because the Sixers are getting desperate with each passing year and because it is very hard to construct a championship team around a PG that can't shoot (that's why I don't consider him a true centerpiece).
The simple fact that Harden puts other teams in instant contention, but not the Spurs. I don't see NO doing that trade, but Boston surely - a team spearheaded by Tatum and Harden is an instant contender, perhaps even le favorite. The same goes for Philly with a pairing of Harden and Embiid, that PnR plus the rest of Philly's roleplayers can definitely reach the conference finals at the least. The Spurs with Harden, on the other hand, are a middle-of-the-pack playoff team waiting to get bounced. We're too early in our rebuild for those kinds of moves, not to mention they'd gut what little potential-filled players the Spurs still have - and I have little interest in making the playoffs one or two seasons with no real hope of advancing, only to have Harden leave in FA. Hard pass.
I mean, Jaylen Brown could pretty possibly be on the move as well. Simmons isn't the only package, though certainly the most likely one, especially given the Morey connection. And I assure you that the Rockets consider Ben Simmons a "true centerpiece", he's been on every report of Rockets demands as the picture-perfect example of a return they'd want (true, not what they're necessarily going to get, but that's irrelevant to this point). Simmons > any package the Spurs (and other teams) could offer.
I guess we will have to wait and see what the Rockets get for Harden. In any case, the Spurs' FO thinking "meh, why even bother? We aren't getting him anyways" would be unprofessional. They need to do their due dilligence and inquire about trade proposals.
Agreed on all countsI'm still holding out hope we end up with either Gordon or Tucker. Both could really help the team.
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