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  1. #176
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Haha, I like the expression, "point guard by committee". If you think about it, it's basically the way the league plays now - no one is truly designated to be the one starting the offense, but rather multiple players are able to bring the ball up, create for others, or themselves as they see fit. Especially modern wings. So it's a step in the right direction for sure - especially since all of our youth are at least average shooters from deep. It's an understated part of our core, and a stark contrast to our current starting lineups, where two non-shooters are starting every single game.

    I don't see Murray handling the ball like he does now, once White comes back, though. I'd have to go over the bubble games tape again, but I recall White being the clear primary handler, with DJ getting more spot-up duties or handling once White sat. At the end of the day, having a hierarchy isn't a bad thing, and I'm glad White looks to be the top dog (and now is paid like it).
    Derrick became a clear SG than a PG during the bubble, IMO. He would set up the guys less and looked to score way more.

  2. #177
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Derrick became a clear SG than a PG during the bubble, IMO. He would set up the guys less and looked to score way more.
    Hmm, he's always been a combo guard in my mind. It's gonna be interesting, then, to see how the DJ/DW dynamic grows during the season, since White was still the primary ball-handler in the bubble. Will DJ eventually try to regain "PG duties"? Or will he continue to allow White that role - especially if White builds on his bubble play and starts displaying a score-first mentality?

    It'll be an interesting season for sure.

  3. #178
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Hmm, he's always been a combo guard in my mind. It's gonna be interesting, then, to see how the DJ/DW dynamic grows during the season, since White was still the primary ball-handler in the bubble. Will DJ eventually try to regain "PG duties"? Or will he continue to allow White that role - especially if White builds on his bubble play and starts displaying a score-first mentality?

    It'll be an interesting season for sure.
    That's the thing though, I don't remember it the same way as others. I don't think he was the primary ball handler during the bubble.

    With that said, I don't think DJ was the primary either.

    There was a lot of sharing of duties.

    Unless we're going to re-watch those games, I don't think we can fact check this lol. Unless someone has a Synergy account...

  4. #179
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    That's the thing though, I don't remember it the same way as others. I don't think he was the primary ball handler during the bubble.

    With that said, I don't think DJ was the primary either.

    There was a lot of sharing of duties.

    Unless we're going to re-watch those games, I don't think we can fact check this lol. Unless someone has a Synergy account...
    Bubble

    White early
    DJ mixed in
    DD late in the games

    That’s what I remember.

  5. #180
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    Of course they are - the difference is "dumb" teams (what a word to describe them) have less-than-capable FOs and staff (which you consistently fail to identify), who either can't negotiate good enough deals, are short-sighted or plain stupid in terms of which players to sign or how much money they're worth (like Minnesota foolishly thinking Wiggins was worth a max contract), and consistently fail to give out good contracts. Surely giving out 5 bad contracts in a row isn't luck, is it? And the opposite is true as well. Also implying every FO executive should or could give out the same contracts because they "do the same job"

    You can say a deal like Curry's original deal was "lucky" due to the timing and the fact that he didn't get injured again, but a contract like this? Seriously? Like... Can you be a bit more specific? Which part of the process is "luck" playing a part in? Original negotiations, the signing itself...?
    Less than capable based on what? Results that are mostly luck driven, like the Warriors and Raptors. The latter in particular weren't considered anything of consequence until S bag's antics lowered his value so much that they got him for cents on the dollar, then watched the best team in the league disintegrate due to injuries in the Finals and now suddenly they're geniuses and above reproach . . . yet fools like you lap this nonsense up.

    If the Timberwolves didn't max out Wiggins at the time, someone else would have, they'd have been forced to match to retain what was then still seen as an asset (albeit diminishing) and soured the relationship. This is what I mean by luck.

    The luck part in Anunoby's case is his injury history, which led to him wanting to lock in money now, even though he likely sacrificied some (he did get a p/o for his this though) long term.
    Last edited by TD 21; 12-24-2020 at 05:35 PM.

  6. #181
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Less than capable based on what? Results that are mostly luck driven, like the Warriors and Raptors. The latter in particular weren't considered anything of consequence until S bag's antics lowered his value so much that they got him for cents on the dollar, then watched the best team in the league disintegrate due to injuries in the Finals and now suddenly they're geniuses and above reproach . . . yet fools like you lap this nonsense up.
    It's you who is a fool, my guy. There is no part of putting together a championship-winning roster that is luck. Luck comes into play in the actual games, the bounce of the ball, the shots you make or miss - but the management side of it, that's no luck. I really can't wrap my head around how you fail to understand that putting a quality team together, and coaching it up, are not matters of luck - the same way that the Spurs trotting out Forbes starting for a season also wasn't luck, but bad roster composition. Seriously, look up "luck" in a dictionary - you use it WAY too overarchingly, and incorrectly.

    The Raptors were lucky to have Kawhi force his way out in time to make a bid. They weren't lucky to have constructed an excellent supporting cast (Marc Gasol, Ibaka, Lowry, et al) that could contend, when given the necessary star power. It wasn't luck that made them have excelling defensive schemes and presence. The Kawhi game 7 shot against the Sixers - yeah, that's luck. But putting yourself in a position to be lucky, is not luck, but hard and good work. Understand the difference?

    If the Timberwolves didn't max out Wiggins at the time, someone else would have, they'd have been forced to match to retain what was then still seen as an asset (albeit diminishing) and soured the relationship. This is what I mean by luck.
    I still don't follow you - which part of this is "luck"? If you're not sure whether the player is worth a max, you don't preemptively max them (THAT is bad FO job), you play out the season and then reassess whether he's worth that max. Yes, another team might've tried to pry him away with a max offer sheet, but had the Wolves played out that season, they would've known that letting him walk was the better option. Again, no luck whatsoever - just (bad) FO work.

    The luck part in Anunoby's case is his injury history, which led to him wanting to lock in money now, even though he likely sacrificied some (he did get a p/o for his this though) long term.
    Injuries lowering the amount of a contract is not luck........ My god. What a guy. What's your point, that the Raptors are "lucky" that OG got injured? You think they'd rather he gets injured and a lower contract, than no injuries at all? Backward-ass view you got there. And again - OG could've well bet on himself and play out the season. There's no luck to be had there, both parties agreed to that contract, and it's a great one (something you've consistently failed to adress, of course).

    Related question: who's a good FO in this league, right now? Do you even think a FO can be good? Like seriously - you say the Warriors, Raptors (so the latest champs) are all luck, no work. Do you even contemplate such a thing as a good FO? If not, why do you think the Spurs FO is bad? Can't have it both ways...

  7. #182
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    It's you who is a fool, my guy. There is no part of putting together a championship-winning roster that is luck. Luck comes into play in the actual games, the bounce of the ball, the shots you make or miss - but the management side of it, that's no luck. I really can't wrap my head around how you fail to understand that putting a quality team together, and coaching it up, are not matters of luck - the same way that the Spurs trotting out Forbes starting for a season also wasn't luck, but bad roster composition. Seriously, look up "luck" in a dictionary - you use it WAY too overarchingly, and incorrectly.

    The Raptors were lucky to have Kawhi force his way out in time to make a bid. They weren't lucky to have constructed an excellent supporting cast (Marc Gasol, Ibaka, Lowry, et al) that could contend, when given the necessary star power. It wasn't luck that made them have excelling defensive schemes and presence. The Kawhi game 7 shot against the Sixers - yeah, that's luck. But putting yourself in a position to be lucky, is not luck, but hard and good work. Understand the difference?



    I still don't follow you - which part of this is "luck"? If you're not sure whether the player is worth a max, you don't preemptively max them (THAT is bad FO job), you play out the season and then reassess whether he's worth that max. Yes, another team might've tried to pry him away with a max offer sheet, but had the Wolves played out that season, they would've known that letting him walk was the better option. Again, no luck whatsoever - just (bad) FO work.



    Injuries lowering the amount of a contract is not luck........ My god. What a guy. What's your point, that the Raptors are "lucky" that OG got injured? You think they'd rather he gets injured and a lower contract, than no injuries at all? Backward-ass view you got there. And again - OG could've well bet on himself and play out the season. There's no luck to be had there, both parties agreed to that contract, and it's a great one (something you've consistently failed to adress, of course).

    Related question: who's a good FO in this league, right now? Do you even think a FO can be good? Like seriously - you say the Warriors, Raptors (so the latest champs) are all luck, no work. Do you even contemplate such a thing as a good FO? If not, why do you think the Spurs FO is bad? Can't have it both ways...
    You're quite possible the most vanilla poster I've ever seen, which is quite the feat. You just regurgigate whatever the mainstream media take is on everything.

    The Raptors didn't put themselves in position for that because without his antics, they wouldn't have had so much the audacity to make that offer. Him lowering his value to that extent had nothing to do with them.

    The Timberwolves were in a bad spot and did what probably 29 other teams would have done at the time, while holding their nose. Teams, especially small market ones, don't just let 22 year old, 1st overall picks, who they traded their franchise cornerstones for and who was putting up counting stats (empty calories sure, but this wasn't Bennett) walk.

    Are you legitimately this obtuse or just pretending so you can critique every word I say? The Raptors got lucky that his injury history led to him wanting to sign now and not waiting a year to get more.

    Again, I think the position is mostly luck. Sure, some do on the margins things better than others, but the big, consequential things are heavily dependant on it.

  8. #183
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    You're quite possible the most vanilla poster I've ever seen, which is quite the feat. You just regurgigate whatever the mainstream media take is on everything.

    The Raptors didn't put themselves in position for that because without his antics, they wouldn't have had so much the audacity to make that offer. Him lowering his value to that extent had nothing to do with them.

    The Timberwolves were in a bad spot and did what probably 29 other teams would have done at the time, while holding their nose. Teams, especially small market ones, don't just let 22 year old, 1st overall picks, who they traded their franchise cornerstones for and who was putting up counting stats (empty calories sure, but this wasn't Bennett) walk.

    Are you legitimately this obtuse or just pretending so you can critique every word I say? The Raptors got lucky that his injury history led to him wanting to sign now and not waiting a year to get more.

    Again, I think the position is mostly luck. Sure, some do on the margins things better than others, but the big, consequential things are heavily dependant on it.
    Better poster than you.

  9. #184
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    Better poster than you.

  10. #185
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Truth hurts. Laughter is a natural defense.

  11. #186
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    Truth hurts. Laughter is a natural defense.
    Says the guy who's contributed virtually nothing of relevant substance on a basketball message board. You would judge this based off of who's more concerned with playing by the rules, so to speak.

    Those who supposedly despise me sure have a funny way of showing it, by constantly flocking to threads after I post. Face it, I'm your guilty pleasure.

  12. #187
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Says the guy who's contributed virtually nothing of relevant substance on a basketball message board. You would judge this based off of who's more concerned with playing by the rules, so to speak.

    Those who supposedly despise me sure have a funny way of showing it, by constantly flocking to threads after I post. Face it, I'm your guilty pleasure.
    Whatevs homie. You do you. He's a better poster.

  13. #188
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Whatevs homie. You do you. He's a better poster.
    Missed this, thanks, I'm officially over the debate. TD 21 might be the most vicious case of Dunning-Kruger effect I've ever seen. Insane.

  14. #189
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Says the guy who's contributed virtually nothing of relevant substance on a basketball message board. You would judge this based off of who's more concerned with playing by the rules, so to speak.

    Those who supposedly despise me sure have a funny way of showing it, by constantly flocking to threads after I post. Face it, I'm your guilty pleasure.
    Being your own hype man would be more than a full time job. Don’t self toot that horn too much, though. People like to watch train wrecks, and you qualify.

    Missed this, thanks, I'm officially over the debate. TD 21 might be the most vicious case of Dunning-Kruger effect I've ever seen. Insane.

  15. #190
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    Missed this, thanks, I'm officially over the debate. TD 21 might be the most vicious case of Dunning-Kruger effect I've ever seen. Insane.
    The hypocricsy of this from the guy who just regurgigates the mainstream media take on virtually everything.


    Being your own hype man would be more than a full time job. Don’t self toot that horn too much, though. People like to watch train wrecks, and you qualify.
    I'm just stating the facts. If that's the excuse miserable old pukes like you want to use to justify reading my posts while supposedly despising me, so be it.

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