One of the reasons I wasn't a fan of Obi Toppin in the draft is I think he's going to be a John Collins-lite, and he's only 6 months younger than Collins, who's been in the league three years now. I bet he'll be less efficient than Collins and a worse defender, but he'll put up some numbers and someone will pay him because of it.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 12-26-2020 at 02:36 PM.
His defense is legit questionable.
And no way he'll ever be impactful defending the rim as a 5.
Bigs playing together isn't just a matter of talent, but IQ. I think Collins and Poeltl could make it work if the structure of the team allows both to know their responsibilities. For the Spurs, they actually have good rim-protecting smalls in addition to Poeltl. I don't think defense would be the problem folks are worrying it could be unless Pop drops the ball. The offense will be more stable as well.
If ATL does do a Harden trade, then I'd love the Spurs to snag Collins as the third team. I could see Houston wanting DeRozan to play SF for them, and with Wood and Cousins signed, they might not value Collins much. It's hard to see how'd they find the salary to move for Harden before the holds on Gallo/Boganovic lift next year. If we just hand-wave that away, then I think Collins and Gordon for DeRozan makes sense for Houston. It'd be a lot to pay for the Spurs, but it's Wiggins-bad.
I was similar with Obi. But I am less opposed to Collins because I do think Collins is better.
In addition, there's just not too many options in free agency to even use a big salary on in summer 2021.
I like Collins more than Markkanen. His defense isn't too great against real bigs, Wendell Carter marched him to the rim and scored on him and Carter barely scores at all. BUT he does fit with the fast-pace Spurs as he's a great runner in transition. He could play with Poeltl and probably look fine. He's the right age.
And his points generation I don't think would fall too much without Trae Young on the Spurs, seeing how great Derrick White is in the pick-and-roll.
Other than Collins and Markkanen, maybe Otto Porter would be a cheaper option. Looked pretty fat in the Bulls-Hawks opener I watched to check out Collins and Markkanen, and is hurt all the time. But is probably transitioning into full-time 4 role as he gets older and heavier, and he is a fair player. Rudy Gay on paper is what, $14 million? Porter on a 3/45 deal might not be unreasonable.
Otto Porter Jr is made of glass. Absolutely do not want unless we’re tanking.
This is on the assumption that we let DDR go of course. I don’t see why Collins and Poetl wouldn’t work. Poetl is never going to play big time minutes anyways bc he sucks so bad offensively, but if he were going to play big minutes, he would have to be paired with a guy like Collins.
Also the Forbes comparison is a horrible one bc Forbes is a midget and Collins isn’t. I’m convinced that nobody in Atlanta knows how to play defense bc they don’t teach it. Nobody thought LMA could play defense and he played very well on that side of the ball for like 3 years for us. When you’re that tall it’s about effort and habit. I’ve seen nothing from Collins that says he isn’t an effort player that just means we have to teach him the habit of playing defense. It’s much easier to do with a guy like Collins who is pretty mobile and much much much taller/bigger than Forbes. Every player Forbes went against was taller than him and faster than him which won’t be the case with John.
White, DJ, Lonnie, KJ and Collins would be a good playoff team surrounded buy the right vets and not Carrol. We aren’t winning the le anytime soon so I’m not shooting for that.
Collins is not a bad defender. He has strengths and weaknesses on that end like most players. His strength is help defense, shotblocking and his athleticism which helps him recover on a lot of plays where he was out of position. His weakness is his positioning on individual defense, footwork and him not cutting off driving lanes with his body properly. All of that is teachable and he would learn these type of things from a coach like Pop. I don't see any red flags here
Might as well turn this into a free agent tracker thread for John Collins.
Tonight he had
13 points,
4-9 FG,
0-3 3PT,
5-5 from FT,
10 rebounds,
2 turnovers,
1 steal,
2 blocks
in 27 minutes.
His counterpart, Jonas had:
13 points on 2-6 FG, scoring most of his points from FT 8-10
1-3 from 3
4 assists
12 rebounds
1 steal
1 block
4 turnovers
Would easily be the best player on this team. Not a flawless player but we have ~$80m in expiring contracts. Would rather spend money on him then overpay old veterans (which is what will happen)
Not impressed with the way he's scoring his points. 30 points is great if it wasn't against a defenseless team. But 30 points is what the casuals will see, like how mainstream media usually caters to viewers: show them highlights of the guy who scored the most on the losing team instead of the guy on the WINNING team who impacted the game in many other ways besides scoring.
Not worth the max to me.
Also, Lauri is definitely not getting the max by the way he's playing this year so far.
30 in 60/40/80...and he plays for the 3-1 Atlanta
Not arguing the efficiency. Just the way he's creating those shots (or how others are creating for him). I wonder how effective he will be when the games start to count (playoffs).
Stars, to me, have a large arsenal of moves. John, right now at least, looks like a highly effective role player... not a player who is trending to become a star.
the biggest scorer of the position had a guy "creating" for him throughout his all career, it is natural in this position, Dirk, Duncan and Chuck are the exceptions, it does not diminish the value of these guys, and Collins is one of the most versatile scorers in position, I really don't understand the offensive limitation argument being played here.
Random posters from the Hawks board:
"Again. I'm not saying we don't need him as in hes useless. I'm saying management will not be willing to fork over a max contract to a guy who has put up less than the 20&10 he usually does. It's just that simple. There will be teams out there throwing the max at him. That's going to happen. A desperate team will give him that contract and we will be either forced to match or let him walk for nothing. And management cannot let him walk for nothing. They need something in return. Therefore if the right trade comes up during the season then maybe make that move. I feel like people in here think he's gonna accept 20m a year. No chance. He just turned down 4yr/90. He's going to have a tough time getting that same production from seasons before but still wanting the max contract. Because this team is deep. Everyone is an option on the floor now. Collins isn't even really the #2 option anymore. I'm not literally saying we don't need him cause he is very good. But we need defence before anything. We're 3-0 against sorry teams. We will see how we do against Brooklyn. "
John has to get better at staying on his feet defensively. And not reaching to make silly contact fouls.
Its hard to produce from the bench because you pick up 2 fouls in the 1st quarter of every game.
Once he cleans that up, he has a better chance to stay on the floor and get in to a rhythm.
The more I watch this team the more I see we may not need Collins anymore. I mean he is a very good player offensively but still quite lost on defense. And he isn't going to be that 20&10 player on this team at least because we just have a lot of depth on this team. I really think Hunter could play the 4 permanently with Capela at 5. I think Collins will want the max money regardless of how he performs cause some team out there will give him the max. I know it's early in the season but just an observation. I could warm up to a Collins trade if it's for the right players in return.
against the Nets he's scoring in lob, spot, iso, post small players, bullyball,pnr, elbow...idk, he's looking versatile for me
Most versatile? Come on, now...
He's going to get paid as much as these guys:
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Karl-Anthony Towns
Bam Adebayo
Pascal Siakam
It's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I don't see him reaching these guys' level at all.
only 3 of these guys (the two superstars and Towns) have a more versatile offensive package than Collins (and even so are the 3 Centers), and even though all of these guys had a bigger arsenal (which they don’t have) than Collins, the original premise it would still be true, being one of the 5-8 is still being among the first.
So the Hawks started Capela/Collins and Dedmon/Collins the Last 2 games. Like
I said he’s a PF
hawks on the top
He's already expressing unhappiness with the Trae Young-shoot-happy offense.
valid statements that should never have been made public in the first place, well, it will be impossible to know if your complaints are due to collective concerns with the team (which unlike last season is one of the most efficient offensively) or because of your future contract (although he is still putting good numbers with good / elite efficiency)
I like Collins but would much rather spend 10-15m on Holmes. Not a PF (and would make the Jakob signing look dubious) but dude is a perfect C for us. Athletic, high-energy, smart defender. Has a really lethal push shot free-throw line in. He’s playing great for the Kings and has pushed Whiteside completely out of the rotation (albeit whiteside sucks). His numbers look fantastic and definitely passes the eye-test watching him play.
if collins continue to have the season that he has had so far, i think atlanta will become inclined to match any offer he gets during free agency,
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