Grades: Spurs vs. Lakers - Dec. 30, 2020

[Dejounte]

I would like to see a mobile big on the Spurs. Someone with a high motor. The wings are mobile and can fly around but hesitate because the bigs are flat footed and are unable to rotate.

Unfortunately, I don't see many great candidates except in next year's draft.

[Chinook]

You are telling me a team needs it's second best paid player to be available and play well? What a novel concept, tbh. Too bad that, on this case, the player is in clear decline and, even on his prime, his game had a clear 2nd fiddle type ceiling that wasn't very conductive to real contention.

Anyone thinking that the Spurs need to do anything other than shopping Aldridge the out needs to stop kidding himself, tbh.

You contorted yourself into incoherence in an attempt to go for a jab. Being paid more isn't important. If the team was actually better without Aldridge, then him being out wouldn't matter. The Warriors' problem isn't that Wiggins isn't playing well.

Anyway, acting like the Spurs should be concerned about winning a le any time soon is absurd. This is a developmental year, hopefully one that ends up with a playoff run and some good experience. That's why I don't care about the loss or think them almost winning is the biggest takeaway. I care about HOW they are doing it. Murray going off for a game is fine, fun even. But the Spurs long-term need to avoid that kind of offense and build a culture that passes and communicates on both ends. Murray not doing that has been his problem his whole career. Managing to score well doesn't change that.

[Dejounte]

This is not how basketball works. One possession usually contains multiple plays if the previous ones don't end up leading to a shot.

The rest of what you said has some flaws. The biggest one is that possessions don't exist in a vacuum. Every game is made from both teams combined for 48 minutes of possessions. Scoring fast doesn't automatically mean you get the ball more than the other team. If you take eight seconds and they take 16, that leads to (roughly) 30 possessions each every quarter. In a game like football, TOP matters because the defense will get tired if they play a lot more. With players playing both ends anyway in basketball, that's not a concern. Scoring quickly is supposed to a) lead to better shots against not set defenses and b) trick the opposing team into scoring faster as well, raising the pace. The old Spurs used to be masters at just playing their game anyway and using their defense to drive down opposing efficiency. Not asking this team to do that. But not passing is not going to be some modern tech on the old formula. Analytics agree that passing is good.

Yeah, I wasn't attempting to break down the game in an in-depth way. Just trying to raise my point of how much more dangerous quick possessions are compared to slow set ones. Anyways, I just disagree that Murray is playing a blackhole type offense so far. We probably need more sample size to prove it. 10 more games later, then we can come back and discuss this.

[Dejounte]

You contorted yourself into incoherence in an attempt to go for a jab. Being paid more isn't important. If the team was actually better without Aldridge, then him being out wouldn't matter. The Warriors' problem isn't that Wiggins isn't playing well.

Anyway, acting like the Spurs should be concerned about winning a le any time soon is absurd. This is a developmental year, hopefully one that ends up with a playoff run and some good experience. That's why I don't care about the loss or think them almost winning is the biggest takeaway. I care about HOW they are doing it. Murray going off for a game is fine, fun even. But the Spurs long-term need to avoid that kind of offense and build a culture that passes and communicates on both ends. Murray not doing that has been his problem his whole career. Managing to score well doesn't change that.

I pretty much agree with all this. The only thing is I don't think we've seen the full potential of what they're trying to do yet because the other main players (Lonnie and Keldon) haven't played up to what we know they're capable of playing. Lonnie has shown flashes and actually is showing a bit of consistency doing it. I think game 4 against the Lakers is his best yet. There was a period where it was "Lonnie Time" and I think throwing different weapons like that against the other team will lead to positive results.

[Dejounte]

[R. DeMurre]

You contorted yourself into incoherence in an attempt to go for a jab. Being paid more isn't important. If the team was actually better without Aldridge, then him being out wouldn't matter. The Warriors' problem isn't that Wiggins isn't playing well.

Anyway, acting like the Spurs should be concerned about winning a le any time soon is absurd.

Using your logic-- that the Spurs aren't winning a le any time soon-- wouldn't that mean you agree with DAF86, that the Spurs should be focused on shopping Aldridge? Do you think a 37 or 38 year old Aldridge will help them in any way? Or do think letting expire and using that freed up space is a better alternative?

For the record, I don't agree that it's necessarily absurd to think the Spurs could contend in 2022, if they draft well and sign or trade for a top 15 player in the 2021 offseason.

[Chinook]

Using your logic-- that the Spurs aren't winning a le any time soon-- wouldn't that mean you agree with DAF86, that the Spurs should be focused on shopping Aldridge?

No. DAF wanted to say LMA isn't helping the team on the court, but he also wanted to get a dig in by saying that "You mean that the team needs good players to play well? Duh." But those two things are contradictory, so he had to talk about salary instead. Then he tried to cover his tracks by talking about how even when he plays well, Aldridge can't lead a team to a le. My point to that was that the Spurs shouldn't worry that Aldridge can't win a le, since they aren't in a place to do that anyway.

Do you think a 38 year old Aldridge will help them in any way?

Yes. I do think the Spurs playing the best they can with their current roster is good for the young guys. They aren't all (or maybe even any of them) going to be stars. Learning how to be a role-player is really helpful for a young guy's development. Even if DMDR and LMA aren't le-worthy stars, they are good enough to structure a team around and get guys like Walker, Vassell and Johnson to develop three-and-D chops. It also helps that those two are expiring and old enough to where the young guys still get opportunities to do more on offense than just wait for them to do something. It gives a good balance similar to the medium three era, but without the le-winning ceiling.

Or do think letting expire and using that freed up space is a better alternative?

Eh, like I think it's an okay enough outcome to where SA shouldn't be afraid to let it happen. I'm okay with moving Aldridge in a good deal. Like if the team liked Wiseman so much, then taking on Wiggins to get him using Aldridge would've been worth it. And if LMA wants to leave and the other team isn't trying to hold SA over a barrel then I'm more than happy to do a trade. But if the goal is to good on the court, then getting LMA back healthy and engaged is critical. Folks thinking they're better without him are kidding themselves.

For the record, I don't agree that it's necessarily absurd to think the Spurs could contend in 2022, if they draft well and sign or trade for top player in 2021.

Folks won't want to hear it, but the best chance the Spurs have to contend is to sign a superstar this summer (and as far as I know, there's just one on the market), have White develop into a lesser star and trade whatever else for that third piece. I agree it's possible. But I don't see it as anything like likely now. I'm perfectly fine with them drafting a big wing next summer and maxing out Colilns. I think that's a good but not great team, and maybe they'll find a le window opening up randomly from that.

[R. DeMurre]

Folks won't want to hear it, but the best chance the Spurs have to contend is to sign a superstar this summer (and as far as I know, there's just one on the market), have White develop into a lesser star and trade whatever else for that third piece. I agree it's possible. But I don't see it as anything like likely now. I'm perfectly fine with them drafting a big wing next summer and maxing out Collins. I think that's a good but not great team, and maybe they'll find a le window opening up randomly from that.

Are you referring to Kawhi as the one superstar available?

Collins isn't my first choice either (or my second or third), but I think his max price is comparatively low and he'd be easy to trade if he didn't fit at all. I'm still holding out for an outlier to have a breakout year & be the surprise FA of 2021... Harry Giles? Isaiah Hartenstein, Isaac Bonga? Or my favorite daydream of a 2021 DDR sign & trade return to Toronto bringing back Chris Boucher...

[Chinook]

Are you referring to Kawhi as the one superstar available?

Collins isn't my first choice either (or my second or third), but I think his max price is comparatively low and he'd be easy to trade if he didn't fit at all. I'm still holding out for an outlier to have a breakout year & be the surprise FA of 2021... Harry Giles? Isaiah Hartenstein, Isaac Bonga? Or my favorite daydream of a 2021 DDR sign & trade return to Toronto bringing back Chris Boucher...

I'm not a fan of signing a one-year wonder to a big deal. If we're talking Wood money, that's one thing. That won't hamper the team too badly. But I don't see there being another max player, with Boucher and those other guys definitely not being that. The good news is that the Spurs should be flexible enough to where they can afford any free agent who wants to sign with them.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm not a fan of signing a one-year wonder to a big deal. If we're talking Wood money, that's one thing. That won't hamper the team too badly. But I don't see there being another max player, with Boucher and those other guys definitely not being that. The good news is that the Spurs should be flexible enough to where they can afford any free agent who wants to sign with them.

Yeah, agreed. Woodlike breakout year, Woodlike money-- that's what I meant.

[Dejounte]

[Slippy]

DJ being and possibly becoming a consistent offensive force was the big positive for me coming out of today’s game. This will not only open up further opportunities for his game going forward but for others too.

If we are contending for a le, maybe then a 36 year old Aldridge might be a benefit situationally to such a challenge; but we are still some ways away.

This game wasn’t lost on the offensive end of the court and LMA is not helping our defence one iota.

So you're saying a big body not fouling out or in foul trouble while tiring Davis on the other end, not affecting spacing.. spurs could do without that kind of big?

Dont think you undetstand the game or players one iota. Ffs

[PhantomDashCam]

So you're saying a big body not fouling out or in foul trouble while tiring Davis on the other end, not affecting spacing.. spurs could do without that kind of big?

Dont think you undetstand the game or players one iota. Ffs

Love posts like this. You think Aldridge is tiring out other players shooting 25 ft out from the basket, unable to hedge or contain guards in the P'nR, and shooting mid range blanks that lead to fast breaks down the other end, that's tiring teams out?
This isn't 2016 Aldridge bud.

Born Slippy...now just slipped

[Chinook]

The fact that people keep acting like Aldridge WANTS to shoot threes is annoying. What's more annoying is knowing that the microsecond he moves back inside, he's going to be getting for not shooting threes.

[rankingtear]

Atleast the argument for Murray now is if he is an effective initiator. Just 2 months ago it's he can't dribble , he can't shoot , he can't pass, he can't defend, not a basketball player etc... Murray still not the ideal player to run your offense through but as timvp said he is developing into an offensive weapon. Don't forget that Murray is an all defense guard first, an above average offense is borderline all star for him.

[Slippy]

Love posts like this. You think Aldridge is tiring out other players shooting 25 ft out from the basket, unable to hedge or contain guards in the P'nR, and shooting mid range blanks that lead to fast breaks down the other end, that's tiring teams out?
This isn't 2016 Aldridge bud.

Born Slippy...now just slipped

You just proved you havny seen aldridge at all when on the spurs... he regularly outplays AD. It ain't from Shooting threes and the team fed of that with wins. Your point was he wouldnt have made any difference. You couldnt have been more wrong. Going up against the lakers who start 2 centers and Jacob with the usual foul trouble.

Some of you have taken the hate on LA to another level this season. It can be blinding, feels like some are on a mission. LAs focus on shooting threes is by design. It cnat be that hard to understand

[PhantomDashCam]

The fact that people keep acting like Aldridge WANTS to shoot threes is annoying. What's more annoying is knowing that the microsecond he moves back inside, he's going to be getting for not shooting threes.

Look, I'm not implying this, so if is this for other posters, I'll let them respond.

Aldridge is learning to play a new style of basketball (based on his career achievements, propensity for mid range Js, post play etc.), that ideally benefits the team's future aspirations and core development; and for that he should be applauded.

My issues extend with Aldridge coming into camp out of shape, requiring a high volume of usage to be effective (and that he appears to be very much a rhythm type of player), whose output defensively is dictated by how he's scoring/shooting the ball.

DJ cops a lot of grief for short circuiting the offense at times, going one on one etc. but I can't denounce the effort and intent to generate opportunities, recover scoreless possessions etc.

LMA, this season, has seemingly looked over matched and out classed by mid tier centers on the defensive end, not to mention offer enough help for the guards/wings as the one true "big" in the starting 5. For my money, he hasn't given the requisite effort/s necessary to mitigate his shortcomings as a Starter for a potential playoff team.

[PhantomDashCam]

You just proved you havny seen aldridge at all when on the spurs... he regularly outplays AD. It ain't from Shooting threes and the team fed of that with wins. Your point was he wouldnt have made any difference. You couldnt have been more wrong. Going up against the lakers who start 2 centers and Jacob with the usual foul trouble.

Some of you have taken the hate on LA to another level this season. It can be blinding, feels like some are on a mission. LAs focus on shooting threes is by design. It cnat be that hard to understand

Spurs, to my knowledge, played the Lakers 3 times last season...and lost every single time.
Aldridge had a 30 point game and scored in single digits, both other games.

Yes, Aldridge has troubled Davis in the past but that's my point, this isn't past Aldridge and it wasn't last year for 2 of the 3 losses.
It also isn't the same Davis, same team etc. and the variables go on and on....

Let's agree to disagree on this.

[Slippy]

No your point was Aldridge wouldnt have made an ioata of difference. You are wrong.

Now its Aldridge the same as last season? Well offcoursre not.. he's a year older at the tail end of his career.. Conditioning takes longer and you aknowledge he starts slow.. but no fuk that you writing him off a few games into the season. Mission accomplished

[poopbox]

The fact that people keep acting like Aldridge WANTS to shoot threes is annoying. What's more annoying is knowing that the microsecond he moves back inside, he's going to be getting for not shooting threes.

Even more annoying is that he is to stupid and lazy as an nba player to learn how to shoot a few 3's and post up a little bit, and posters like you don't seem to understand that.

You shouldn't have to chose between "I shoot 3's" and "I post up"...are you open for a 3...you should shoot it...did you set a screen and now have a guard on your hip...you should back him down and call for the ball...or maybe you should try to move around some...there are some possessions where once LMA crosses halfcourt he doesn't take 10 steps in the whole possession

But like I said before the season started...watch this dumbass stop posting up at all and shoot nothing but long 2's and 3's because "i need to shoot 3's" and thats exactly what he's doing...

Truly one of the dumbest players I have ever seen play basketball...

[Chinook]

Even more annoying is that he is to stupid and lazy as an nba player to learn how to shoot a few 3's and post up a little bit, and posters like you don't seem to understand that.

You shouldn't have to chose between "I shoot 3's" and "I post up"...are you open for a 3...you should shoot it...did you set a screen and now have a guard on your hip...you should back him down and call for the ball...or maybe you should try to move around some...there are some possessions where once LMA crosses halfcourt he doesn't take 10 steps in the whole possession

But like I said before the season started...watch this dumbass stop posting up at all and shoot nothing but long 2's and 3's because "i need to shoot 3's" and thats exactly what he's doing...

Truly one of the dumbest players I have ever seen play basketball...

Aldridge can't just post up on his own. When he comes out to set the screen and the guard passes the ball back, what do you want him to do? Posting up is a play just like a PnP is. They don't exist at the same time. You're not going to be right when you blame him for taking the shots he's getting. We all know what shots he WANTS to take -- he's been in the league 15 years. So if LMA had his druthers, he'd be in the post more. But irrational haters like you constantly ed about him being there. He's in a no-win situation with you guys, and it really undercuts your point that you don't seem to understand how offense work. When you blame him for things that are obviously not his fault, it makes complaints about things that are his fault weaker. Out of shape? Sure. Soft on D? Yeah. Only shooting threes or not rolling? Nope.

[poopbox]

Aldridge can't just post up on his own. When he comes out to set the screen and the guard passes the ball back, what do you want him to do? Posting up is a play just like a PnP is. They don't exist at the same time. You're not going to be right when you blame him for taking the shots he's getting. We all know what shots he WANTS to take -- he's been in the league 15 years. So if LMA had his druthers, he'd be in the post more. But irrational haters like you constantly ed about him being there. He's in a no-win situation with you guys, and it really undercuts your point that you don't seem to understand how offense work. When you blame him for things that are obviously not his fault, it makes complaints about things that are his fault weaker. Out of shape? Sure. Soft on D? Yeah. Only shooting threes or not rolling? Nope.

Only shooting 3's is somebody else fault ? LMA is not in control of him setting one screen and stepping back and standing there ? Who is the person that is controlling this that is not LMA and how are they controlling it ? Where is the play that Pop is drawing up that says LMA set one screen take one step back and stand there ?

Rolling to the rim is not LMA fault ? LMA is not in control of setting a screen and then just running to the front of the rim ? Who is the person that is controlling this that is not LMA and how are they controlling it ? Where is the play that says now LMA no matter what do not go onto the block and post up ?

And it's never been about the fact that LMA post up, it's the fact that the spurs as a team do not get anything out of a LMA post up because he is such a bad passer. It does not generate open 3's, seeing as how the spurs starting lineup the last two years is toward the bottom at 3 point attempts...It doesn't help the pace of the game, seeing as how the spurs starting lineup the last two years played at a slower pace than league average, it doesn't help ball movement since LMA just stands in a spot waiting for the ball and then everyone else is just standing around him doing nothing because it's not like he is going to make a good pass. Then to make matters worse, LMA isn't smart enough to understand how to get post up's in the flow of the offense. He doesn't understand where to be on the floor for an easy dump off pass for a layup, or doesn't understand how to cut to the rim for an easy dunk, or really understand anything about basketball beyond what he does with the ball in his hand. Every since he has been here either he is playing great and the rest of the team is not, or he is playing like trash but the rest of the team is playing great.

Irrational hater ? There is something irrational about not wanting to watch a big man who can only score from 3 spots on the floor, pouts when he can't play basketball his way, is such a horrific passer that we had to abandon damn near our entire playbook, gives so so effort on defense, and the end result of all of this is fighting for an 8th seed ? I would think it would be irrational to actually want to see this type of basketball and have it lead to the type of results we are getting.

I don't know anything about offense ? I said LMA would abandon posting up before the season started. He did. I said Dejounte would be better this year because his problem is that he was playing with one dimensional shooters who weren't helping him on offense. So far so good, he has been much better now that forbes, belli, and lyles are not around to drag him down. You on the other hand have some of the absolute worst basketball takes I have seen in the history of the internet. Your basketball takes read like somebody who watched a diagram example of a basketball play in nba 2k and said "well the spurs should do this." Your insistence that the spurs trade Murray is beyond stupid cause he is the only young player we have who has done anything at a all nba level. Your harping on Dejounte passing and his assist is mind boggling since we have several players on our team like LMA, Demar, Rudy, Derrick...pretty much everybody except Patti and Poeltl, who prefer to set up their own offense, prefer to hold the ball and size the defense up and make their own move, so Dejounte nor any point guard is ever going to be tossing these chris paul like passes to people to do...I do not even know what you expect the player to do after these made up fake great passes that Dejounte doesn't make, you never actually explain what is supposed to happen after the made up fake great pass Dejounte didn't make happens. Somehow you got all these problems with Dejounte and how he plays and what he does while at the same time trying to argue that the spurs should make concessions for a player who comes in fat every off season...out of shape every off season...and actively wanted to leave after having the most team success he will ever have because he didn't get to play basketball his way, WHILE being one of the highest paid players on the team. Seems completely illogical. But then again you are one of the most illogical posters I have ever seen on the internet, so I guess that makes your takes completely logical.

[Collins21]

Only shooting 3's is somebody else fault ? LMA is not in control of him setting one screen and stepping back and standing there ? Who is the person that is controlling this that is not LMA and how are they controlling it ? Where is the play that Pop is drawing up that says LMA set one screen take one step back and stand there ?

Rolling to the rim is not LMA fault ? LMA is not in control of setting a screen and then just running to the front of the rim ? Who is the person that is controlling this that is not LMA and how are they controlling it ? Where is the play that says now LMA no matter what do not go onto the block and post up ?

And it's never been about the fact that LMA post up, it's the fact that the spurs as a team do not get anything out of a LMA post up because he is such a bad passer. It does not generate open 3's, seeing as how the spurs starting lineup the last two years is toward the bottom at 3 point attempts...It doesn't help the pace of the game, seeing as how the spurs starting lineup the last two years played at a slower pace than league average, it doesn't help ball movement since LMA just stands in a spot waiting for the ball and then everyone else is just standing around him doing nothing because it's not like he is going to make a good pass. Then to make matters worse, LMA isn't smart enough to understand how to get post up's in the flow of the offense. He doesn't understand where to be on the floor for an easy dump off pass for a layup, or doesn't understand how to cut to the rim for an easy dunk, or really understand anything about basketball beyond what he does with the ball in his hand. Every since he has been here either he is playing great and the rest of the team is not, or he is playing like trash but the rest of the team is playing great.

Irrational hater ? There is something irrational about not wanting to watch a big man who can only score from 3 spots on the floor, pouts when he can't play basketball his way, is such a horrific passer that we had to abandon damn near our entire playbook, gives so so effort on defense, and the end result of all of this is fighting for an 8th seed ? I would think it would be irrational to actually want to see this type of basketball and have it lead to the type of results we are getting.

I don't know anything about offense ? I said LMA would abandon posting up before the season started. He did. I said Dejounte would be better this year because his problem is that he was playing with one dimensional shooters who weren't helping him on offense. So far so good, he has been much better now that forbes, belli, and lyles are not around to drag him down. You on the other hand have some of the absolute worst basketball takes I have seen in the history of the internet. Your basketball takes read like somebody who watched a diagram example of a basketball play in nba 2k and said "well the spurs should do this." Your insistence that the spurs trade Murray is beyond stupid cause he is the only young player we have who has done anything at a all nba level. Your harping on Dejounte passing and his assist is mind boggling since we have several players on our team like LMA, Demar, Rudy, Derrick...pretty much everybody except Patti and Poeltl, who prefer to set up their own offense, prefer to hold the ball and size the defense up and make their own move, so Dejounte nor any point guard is ever going to be tossing these chris paul like passes to people to do...I do not even know what you expect the player to do after these made up fake great passes that Dejounte doesn't make, you never actually explain what is supposed to happen after the made up fake great pass Dejounte didn't make happens. Somehow you got all these problems with Dejounte and how he plays and what he does while at the same time trying to argue that the spurs should make concessions for a player who comes in fat every off season...out of shape every off season...and actively wanted to leave after having the most team success he will ever have because he didn't get to play basketball his way, WHILE being one of the highest paid players on the team. Seems completely illogical. But then again you are one of the most illogical posters I have ever seen on the internet, so I guess that makes your takes completely logical.

Ok LMA can score from more spots on the floor than Poetl. How many time s last year did LMA pass out of the double team only for the player he passed it to then try to drive into the lane or pass up the shot. LMA being on the roster had nothing to do with being last in three's. Meanwhile yall criticize LMA and DDR for playing their brand of basketball but praise DJM for taking the same shots they take but he's not half as good as them at doing it. LMA doesn't play Defense but as the center piece of the defense we had a top 3 defense in 2017/2018. Also the dude hasn't pouted about playing style since 2017. So yeah all of this does sound like hate.

[DAF86]

You contorted yourself into incoherence in an attempt to go for a jab. Being paid more isn't important. If the team was actually better without Aldridge, then him being out wouldn't matter. The Warriors' problem isn't that Wiggins isn't playing well.

Anyway, acting like the Spurs should be concerned about winning a le any time soon is absurd. This is a developmental year, hopefully one that ends up with a playoff run and some good experience. That's why I don't care about the loss or think them almost winning is the biggest takeaway. I care about HOW they are doing it. Murray going off for a game is fine, fun even. But the Spurs long-term need to avoid that kind of offense and build a culture that passes and communicates on both ends. Murray not doing that has been his problem his whole career. Managing to score well doesn't change that.

And who said anything about winning a tle soon? I'm talking about making the right moves so that we can start thinking about that as soon as possible; and one of those right moves is to get something in return on an Aldridge trade. Letting him go for nothing or re-signing him accomplishes nothing positive for the franchise in the near future.

[DAF86]

No. DAF wanted to say LMA isn't helping the team on the court, but he also wanted to get a dig in by saying that "You mean that the team needs good players to play well? Duh." But those two things are contradictory, so he had to talk about salary instead. Then he tried to cover his tracks by talking about how even when he plays well, Aldridge can't lead a team to a le. My point to that was that the Spurs shouldn't worry that Aldridge can't win a le, since they aren't in a place to do that anyway.

lol what? Why are you inventing son? I said what I said, there's no reason to try to come up with other meanings. If I want to say something, I say it son. I'm a straight shooter, I don't beat around the bushes, tbh.