Memphis, injured and w/ 2 week layoff, is objectively better than us. Might be time to tank.

[Arcadian]

Pretty much, yeah

[ElNono]

Whiteside is playing backup in Sac . Portland used him for one year. We didn't pay Anderson and Forbes one bit. Also Forbes is in the rotation for a contending team now. Againz Heat played and paid Waiters, James Johnson, Roberts for example.

So how have the Heat done things differently? I'm not letting this go Elnono. You want to say stupid and constantly move the goal post, then I've challenge you to defend your position.

How am I moving the goalposts? You're the one moving the goalposts saying that Whiteside now doesn't have the same value than when the trade was made, when we're discussing the trade that landed them Butler.

The fact is that you can only make trades like that when you have the salary and talent to move around. The Heat sold Whiteside when his value was up, that's what good teams do.

That's what the Spurs should've done with LMA while his value was still high and he was in his early 30s. Right now you're going to only get cents on the dollar for him.

There's simply not way to spin that the Heat made that move and it got them to the NBA Finals, and objectively call it anything but a good move for them. That's exactly what every team tries to do, so I don't even know why we're having this conversation.

I'm not the one that said the Heat should've done anything differently, I'm addressing the question that was posed here, whether Spurs fan or Heat fan should be happier with their current situation.

I'm not letting this go either. You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there. Eager to hear what your stupid sounds like.

[Dejounte]

"You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there."

The Heat have done the same exact thing. They've competed every year before they made the Finals. This mother er is stupid.

What this idiot fails to acknowledge is that Heat fans aren't anymore happier about their current situation than Spurs fans are.

[BatManu20]

Spurs are stuck in NBA purgatory — Not good enough to compete for anything meaningful, not bad enough to select high enough for a franchise player in the draft (unless they strike gold like they did with Nephew — highly unlikely.

This team will never tank though. Not part of the organization’s culture. We’re likely to be stuck in limbo for a while. Just the way it is unfortunately.

[ElNono]

"You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there."

The Heat have done the same exact thing. They've competed every year before they made the Finals. This mother er is stupid.

What this idiot fails to acknowledge is that Heat fans aren't anymore happier about their current situation than Spurs fans are.

how is it the same thing? They traded half their roster for a star in Butler, collected and been building via top 15 picks. That landed them in the NBA Finals... how is that remotely similar to what the Spurs have been doing?

The last big trade the Spurs made was forced on them by a disgruntled player. One top 15 pick since 1997.

"Bad takes" strikes again, smh

[r0drig0lac]

Not sure why you quoted me...

the indirect claim that Memphis is better than Indiana or that Indiana is a bad team is so strange that it needs confirmation.

[Dejounte]

how is it the same thing? They traded half their roster for a star in Butler, collected and been building via top 15 picks. That landed them in the NBA Finals... how is that remotely similar to what the Spurs have been doing?

The last big trade the Spurs made was forced on them by a disgruntled player. One top 15 pick since 1997.

"Bad takes" strikes again, smh

You're not really trying to have a serious discussion when you claim the Heat "collected" top 15 picks as if they were actively tanking (which you criticize the Spurs for not doing). Your argument is disingenuous and you're just trying to be an idiot tip toeing around valid points. Keep on being the troll you are, or better yet just use your alts to do it. Loser

[Dejounte]

the indirect claim that Memphis is better than Indiana or that Indiana is a bad team is so strange that it needs confirmation.

It was a general comment towards the current state of the NBA. When people use Memphis losing to Indiana as a measuring stick for the Spurs, one can look at the Clippers losing by 50 earlier in the season.

[ElNono]

You're not really trying to have a serious discussion when you claim the Heat "collected" top 15 picks as if they were actively tanking (which you criticize the Spurs for not doing). Your argument is disingenuous and you're just trying to be an idiot tip toeing around valid points. Keep on being the troll you are, or better yet just use your alts to do it. Loser

There's only two ways to collect top 15 picks: tanking or trading for them. The Spurs don't have the assets to trade for them, so that leaves tanking. This isn't very complicated.

If you're not going to use your head, just stop posting, tbh

[Dejounte]

There's only two ways to collect top 15 picks: tanking or trading for them. The Spurs don't have the assets to trade for them, so that leaves tanking. This isn't very complicated.

If you're not going to use your head, just stop posting, tbh

10/10

Keep trolling

Needs alts to keep his life busy

Get a job. Go outside.

[ElNono]

10/10

Keep trolling

Needs alts to keep his life busy

Get a job. Go outside.

I don't have alts...

And the fact that you've now attacked me personally instead of addressing the stupid you just posted proves exactly my point.

You said something stupid and you got called out for it, it happens, tbh...

[Dejounte]

The Spurs had the #11 pick last year. I guess they tanked by your logic.

Big hole in your "argument".

[Dejounte]

I don't have alts...

And the fact that you've now attacked me personally instead of addressing the stupid you just posted proves exactly my point.

You said something stupid and you got called out for it, it happens, tbh...

Keep wasting your life living different iden ies, ing loser.

[ElNono]

lmao son, yes they sucked balls last year, that's the point. The question is why that hasn't been done for the previous 3 and why are we even trying to win this year.

turns out that having a pick at #11 was great, who would've thought! rofl

[ElNono]

Keep wasting your life living different iden ies, ing loser.

that's telling me

[tbdog]

How am I moving the goalposts? You're the one moving the goalposts saying that Whiteside now doesn't have the same value than when the trade was made, when we're discussing the trade that landed them Butler.

The fact is that you can only make trades like that when you have the salary and talent to move around. The Heat sold Whiteside when his value was up, that's what good teams do.

That's what the Spurs should've done with LMA while his value was still high and he was in his early 30s. Right now you're going to only get cents on the dollar for him.

There's simply not way to spin that the Heat made that move and it got them to the NBA Finals, and objectively call it anything but a good move for them. That's exactly what every team tries to do, so I don't even know why we're having this conversation.

I'm not the one that said the Heat should've done anything differently, I'm addressing the question that was posed here, whether Spurs fan or Heat fan should be happier with their current situation.

I'm not letting this go either. You can start by explaining how the Spurs FO strategy in the past 3-4 years lines up to anything close to what the Heat has done to show up in the NBA Finals and what the current strategy is to get there. Eager to hear what your stupid sounds like.

Butler chose that team. Butler chose a team with no cap space. The heat had a 39/43 record the season before. The heat moved overpaid role players in Whiteside and Richardson to make the deal work. You can't say fans preferred to be Heat fans than Spurs fans now when before that deal, the Heat were worse. They had Ryan Anderson at 20mil. They had James Johnson at 14mil. Waiters at 12mil. Their best player was Dragic.

A star player picked them. That's just how it goes and they moved cap around to make it happen. The Spurs could do the same last off season if a star picked them. The spurs can make it work even easier if a star picked them this coming offseason.

Losing LMA/Gay/DDR/Mills for cap space is just as good as moving them for assets. Spurs are building a team and waiting for a star player. That was just how the Heat were a few seasons ago. They did not have a good team.

And finally, I am not sure if the Heat run last season can be compared to any other season. It was a weird bubble environment. Bucks lost lots of momentum and 76ers got injuries. The Heat record is pretty poor thus far. I am doubtful they will make another run.

[ElNono]

Butler chose that team. Butler chose a team with no cap space. The heat had a 39/43 record the season before. The heat moved overpaid role players in Whiteside and Richardson to make the deal work. You can't say fans preferred to be Heat fans than Spurs fans now when before that deal, the Heat were worse. They had Ryan Anderson at 20mil. They had James Johnson at 14mil. Waiters at 12mil. Their best player was Dragic.

A star player picked them. That's just how it goes and they moved cap around to make it happen. The Spurs could do the same last off season if a star picked them. The spurs can make it work even easier if a star picked them this coming offseason.

Butler chose that team because they're a good market. Works the same with NY or LA. This is something the Spurs never really had and still don't have and it's very unlikely they'll ever have. LMA was probably the odd one out, and that's when we still had the Big 3 + Kawhi around, and coming out of a championship.

Plus, as you described and I pointed out, the Heat had good picks to build something around them. Similar to when Lebron went back to the Cavs. Not only they could pay him, they just picked early in the draft and still had some more picks in the next couple years.

I never claimed that Heat fans were happier than Spurs fans before the trade. I claimed that Heat fans are happier now after just making a run to the Finals. And the reason I make that claim is that I could only imagine what this forum would look like if we just lost the Finals last year. I was here the last time that happened and it was much more different than it looks now.

Losing LMA/Gay/DDR/Mills for cap space is just as good as moving them for assets. Spurs are building a team and waiting for a star player. That was just how the Heat were a few seasons ago. They did not have a good team.

And finally, I am not sure if the Heat run last season can be compared to any other season. It was a weird bubble environment. Bucks lost lots of momentum and 76ers got injuries. The Heat record is pretty poor thus far. I am doubtful they will make another run.

I don't disagree with much of this, other than pointing out that it's probably better if you can swing them for top 15 picks. Having capspace is only relatively good if you can entice star talent to come to your team. The Spurs historically simply have not been a premiere destination for star players. It sucks, and it's related to the market convo above, but it's also true.

[tbdog]

Butler chose that team because they're a good market. Works the same with NY or LA. This is something the Spurs never really had and still don't have and it's very unlikely they'll ever have. LMA was probably the odd one out, and that's when we still had the Big 3 + Kawhi around, and coming out of a championship.

Plus, as you described and I pointed out, the Heat had good picks to build something around them. Similar to when Lebron went back to the Cavs. Not only they could pay him, they just picked early in the draft and still had some more picks in the next couple years.

I never claimed that Heat fans were happier than Spurs fans before the trade. I claimed that Heat fans are happier now after just making a run to the Finals. And the reason I make that claim is that I could only imagine what this forum would look like if we just lost the Finals last year. I was here the last time that happened and it was much more different than it looks now.



I don't disagree with much of this, other than pointing out that it's probably better if you can swing them for top 15 picks. Having capspace is only relatively good if you can entice star talent to come to your team. The Spurs historically simply have not been a premiere destination for star players. It sucks, and it's related to the market convo above, but it's also true.

See, you can't say the Spurs need to go down the same path as Heat but then have a disclaimer that they can't because Miami is a big market and SA is not.

I showed you that they didn't have good picks. Windslow is pick 10 and they got rid of him. It's actually pick 14 that they got an allstar center. So, no, you don't need good picks to build something around them. Keldron Johnson is pick 29. Who would you pick before him?

Tanking has proven to mostly not work. Occasionally it does. Take the 76ers. Epic tank jobs for years in a row. Worst team in history. Longest losing streak in history. They haven't got any trophies to showcase the tank job.

[J_Paco]

A cliff jumping thread after a pair of bad losses??? Surprising.



We're already rebuilding. How would you even propose a "tanking"? Chances are we not resigning either DDR or LMA this offseason, so conceivably both of our veteran all-stars are gone after this season. After that it's all youth building towards a better future. The only reason we're above .500 now is our young guys...it's not our amazing veteran leadership.

So, honestly, I don't know what you're proposing. We can't help it if the young guys we're getting late in the draft are ending up being better than many top-10 lottery picks. How do we tank exactly? And what do we get with that tank? Do we get rid of the entire roster? Next season we'll likely have the youngest roster in the league. If that's not rebuilding I'm not sure what is.



Dumb thread.

Brother, a "stupid" thread is par for the course on ST these days.

If they aren't circle jerking around Nephew like last year, they are crying about the team not tanking, if not that they are crying the greatest coach in team history is a "egomaniac."

It'll be hilarious when the day comes that old guy is gone, the team is an actual bottom feeder and they'll be pining for Pop + Big 3 era, again.

[ElNono]

See, you can't say the Spurs need to go down the same path as Heat but then have a disclaimer that they can't because Miami is a big market and SA is not.

I never claimed the Spurs need to go down the same path as the Heat... quote/link?

I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.

I showed you that they didn't have good picks. Windslow is pick 10 and they got rid of him. It's actually pick 14 that they got an allstar center. So, no, you don't need good picks to build something around them. Keldron Johnson is pick 29. Who would you pick before him?

Of course they had good picks. I wish the Spurs could pick in the top 15 every other year. Like you said, that landed them an allstar center. Winslow was a All-Rookie second team his first season, he was hurt a lot in his 2nd and 3rd season and became damaged goods pretty much. That happens.

Yet, the Heat managed to get something for him by making him part of the Iggy trade. Again, getting value for a guy that was going to come out of his rookie deal, instead of letting it him walk for nothing (see: fathead, forbes).

Tanking has proven to mostly not work. Occasionally it does. Take the 76ers. Epic tank jobs for years in a row. Worst team in history. Longest losing streak in history. They haven't got any trophies to showcase the tank job.

Tanking doesn't work? Do you remember how we got Tim Duncan? How did that work out?

I know the Sixers well, I went to their games for a long time since they were close to where I used to live. They held too long building around Iggy, and then when they tanked it took a while but came on the other side with Simmons, Embiid and now they have a solid roster. Even Butler signed up with them back in the day.

I have no expectations that if the Spurs tank, it will be a swift turnaround. Realistically, it rarely is (TD notwithstanding). There's no easy/quick fix here, the question is how long are we going to continue wasting time in being not good enough to contend, not ty enough to have good picks, and also not trade anybody.

[ElNono]

It'll be hilarious when the day comes that old guy is gone, the team is an actual bottom feeder

Can't wait, tbh

[J_Paco]

Can't wait, tbh

Sure, cause Bulls & Knicks fans are experiencing so much joy pining for the days of 20+ years ago......

You'll be quickly whining and crying about whatever regime takes over, their ty moves/coaching/players & wishing for the "good old days" when TP won FMVP & led the Spurs to multiple les.

[ElNono]

You'll be really whining and crying about the "good old days" when TP won FMVP & led the Spurs to multiple les.

Nobody is taking away the good old days from me or anybody else. Hopefully we don't have to be talking about the old Big 3 twenty years from now, tbh...

[J_Paco]

Nobody is taking away the good old days from me or anybody else. Hopefully we don't have to be talking about the old Big 3 twenty years from now, tbh...

Isn't my point.

Those days (or similar ones) may never be seen again and the Spurs aren't guaranteed to "get back" to being great. Fans should be going with the flow, letting Pop's time end naturally & having patience in general.

Cause when the bad times come, they'll suck and could last decades.

And I've been guilty of being impatient too, especially with how bad a taste last season had. Then I remember this "senile" old guy helped lead a team that was considered an also ran to 5 NBA championships, helped keep Tim Duncan in S.A. for nearly 20 years (and Amy Duncan) & acquired three other HOFers (Tony, Manu & Nephew) in that timespan.

[ElNono]

Isn't my point.

Those days (or similar ones) may never be seen again and the Spurs aren't guaranteed to "get back" to being great. Fans should be going with the flow, letting Pop's time end naturally & having patience in general.

Cause when the bad times come, they'll suck and could last decades.

Of course there's no guarantees that the Spurs are going to get back to being great. But if you are a fan with any sort of fiber, that's exactly what you would want to happen.

And fans have opinions. Right or wrong, they only want what they perceive is the best for the team. They wouldn't be fans otherwise. Nobody is any less of a fan because they don't agree with you.

It's not like Pop comes here and reads these posts anyways.