Send Lonnie to the G-League

[Sugus]

its not pops fault kj cant shoot all of a sudden....Pop giving kj,murray,lonnie the freedom to make happen...They just cant rise to the challenge

I've been wondering to what point is that a good thing for the young guys, tbh. Pop by all accounts has taken a step back in the coaching department this season, giving the players leeway, but it doesn't look like they're benefiting from it. I wouldn't want to return to the every-possession-is-a-halfcourt-scheme style we had a year or two ago, but some simple plays and movement is much needed for the Spurs' offense. It gets stagnant and unproductive way too easily and often, it only takes a couple misses by any player for them to get discouraged and stop looking to shoot, and pass, pass, pass instead. Set plays would also determine who's job it is to end the play with a score, which would put an end to the useless drive-kickout thing they've got going on (I personally see that the youngings don't know who is supposed to score on a given possession, so they don't take it upon themselves to finish the play, and pass out instead, which is infuriating).

Some backdoor cuts, backscreens, weakside movement sort of stuff for starters. I really don't know how Pop can watch the team day in, day out, and not change his approach whatsoever. The team doesn't have a Doncic type player who came ready right off the bat and isn't to be restricted (had we drafted Haliburton, it would've been a different matter), so set some structure in place. And get rid of a vet or two at the deadline...

[duncan2k5]

Unpopular opinion... But I think Pop has something to do with how soft he is... I don't know what it is, but pop always seemed to try to dial back the aggressiveness of young players... we even have a running joke on here about Pop benching players for dunking or showing toughness or extreme emotion on the court...Some are able to deal with it, while others aren't... Lonnie I think would be more consistent if he were on a other team, and he would be one of those young players we would want to sign...

Pop has given them more room this year, but y'all know how I feel about DeRozan... He and Walker doesn't fit with each other... Walker's best games are when DeRozan isn't playing... It always seems like he defers to DeRozan... And that's a horrible mentality... But if I had to get rid of one, y'all already know who I'd trade...

He also doesn't strike me as a compe or... Just someone that happens to be really talented... If he had that Jordan mentality, he would be a problem, with his natural gifts...

With all that said, all isn't lost, obviously... I'd give him another year, but after that, I'd trade him of he doesn't start to show some fight... Even Vassel shows some fight with his 5ppg

[JADG79]

The problem of our youngs is the Pop system, they are not free to play their game.
Is not like other coaches that try to get the best of a player, Pop try to get the best for his system.

They are afraid of Pop.

We need another coach that develop and increase confidence of younger players.

[rankingtear]

The problem of our youngs is the Pop system, they are not free to play their game.
Is not like other coaches that try to get the best of a player, Pop try to get the best for his system.

They are afraid of Pop.

We need another coach that develop and increase confidence of younger players.

Not this season. They are free to do whatever they want.

[Spurs Homer]

All lonnie needs is tony parker teaching him how to finish in the lane...

parker was a master at drawing contact and scoring right before he hit the floor- he hit the floor no matter if there was any contact

but he got the bucket and the call 99% of the time

[TheChillFactor]

Player X shows the slightest bit of potential and then -

Hype him as the Spurs next savior, when he has a bad stretch talk about him and demand a trade.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Keldon, you're up next...

[SpursDynasty85]

All lonnie needs is tony parker teaching him how to finish in the lane...

parker was a master at drawing contact and scoring right before he hit the floor- he hit the floor no matter if there was any contact

but he got the bucket and the call 99% of the time

I think the Spurs org and Lonnie knows this. Thats why he trained with Jrue Holiday over the summer. The Spurs must've reached out to him. He has those same attributes of being small but finishing in the lane really well and using his strength and iq to shield off opponents and maintain his dribble and drive. Lonnie has just been way used to being the best athlete on the floor but at this level he needs all the tricks he can learn. It will probably take him 2-3 years to learn how to use his body like that. For now he at least has a pretty darn good jump shot but still needs to tighten up his handle as well.

[KobesAchilles]

Unpopular opinion... But I think Pop has something to do with how soft he is... I don't know what it is, but pop always seemed to try to dial back the aggressiveness of young players... we even have a running joke on here about Pop benching players for dunking or showing toughness or extreme emotion on the court...Some are able to deal with it, while others aren't... Lonnie I think would be more consistent if he were on a other team, and he would be one of those young players we would want to sign...

Pop has given them more room this year, but y'all know how I feel about DeRozan... He and Walker doesn't fit with each other... Walker's best games are when DeRozan isn't playing... It always seems like he defers to DeRozan... And that's a horrible mentality... But if I had to get rid of one, y'all already know who I'd trade...

He also doesn't strike me as a compe or... Just someone that happens to be really talented... If he had that Jordan mentality, he would be a problem, with his natural gifts...

With all that said, all isn't lost, obviously... I'd give him another year, but after that, I'd trade him of he doesn't start to show some fight... Even Vassel shows some fight with his 5ppg

I think this is more the issue than Pop. I mean Pop has used him to close out games and left him as a starter even with Derrick back. Not much else he can do. The demar point is an interesting one as well bc the two definitely don't seem to mesh. I think Lonnie would benift more from a low post presence like LMA than a Demar who dribble dribbles. But if Lonnie isn't a compe or than that's more on him than anyone else. Nobody can make him one. You either are or you aren't. Murray is. Derrick is. KJ is. Lonnie? I'm not really seeing it on a consistent basis

[GreekSpursfan]

I believe more in Samanic's potential than Lonnie at this point.

You can probably get something juicy out of a Mills + Rudy + Lonnie package.

No, i don't see any juiciness coming our way. A solid rotation piece maybe

[Dverde]

Low to middle rung rotational player doing low to middle rung rotational things. I think he is going to improve, the key is not to overpay him for his occasional 20 point games.

[C-Dub]

You have to wait and see how LW4 plays next season with no DDR on the team. If he still isn't showing anything then you trade him by the trade deadline. Next season is his last guaranteed year on his rookie contract.

[duncan2150]

That could have been a thread for dejounte two years ago, now Murray is pretty good in his year 5.

Walker is still adjusting to the game, playing his second year in the league after the first one in g league.

What he was showing during a big part of the season was not that bad, 12 pts with 42% shooting and he is one of our best 3pt shooting with 37% ( 4.5 attempts)

Offcourse i want more from him but let him learn and we'll see.

[duncan2150]

I believe more in Samanic's potential than Lonnie at this point.

You can probably get something juicy out of a Mills + Rudy + Lonnie package.

You're a believer, i hope so but samanic is far far way from the team not lonnie.

[Dejounte]

You're a believer, i hope so but samanic is far far way from the team not lonnie.

What I really meant is star potential, not just rotational player potential.

[stephen jackson]

I think it's what Vassell said the other day:

Especially when you go as hard as Keldon. The dude is probably fatigued. And maybe the PF role is taking a toll on him.

this dude vassell is such a pro man, hopefully he starts rest of season

[stephen jackson]

and it sucks lonnie is playing so cowardly, he started the season great, hed be awesome as the number one guy on a team and get a million reps in the nba, then become a consistent player but our system doesnt allow us to learn on the fly you just kinda have to go and get it and lonnie doesnt have that killer mentality.

[Trill Clinton]

Lonnie being softer than baby isn't Pop's fault.

[Seventyniner]

this dude vassell is such a pro man, hopefully he starts rest of season

Don't be surprised if Vassell hits the rookie wall at some point. Keldon might be hitting it now.

And yes I know Keldon isn't a rookie, but he played so few minutes before the bubble that this season is the first time he has played regular minutes for a sustained period.

[RD2191]

Eh, I give him the rest of the season. Pop needs to get the out of his head.

/thread. Pop ruins players.

[Dex]

/thread. Pop ruins players.

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.

Jonathon Simmons was another former Spur who had fans on here claiming Pop was ruining him. After Jon chased the money and the "freedom", he went on to have a great NBA career...

[Sugus]

I don't understand why there can't be a middle ground re: Pop and his coaching methods. It's either Pop is the worst coach ever and ruins every player, which obviously isn't true, or Pop can do no wrong and his methods are always good and effective, which I personally don't think is true either. Especially on someone like Lonnie.

Why can't it be said that he's been badly coached/developed? Yes, the Spurs have a great, top-of-the-league developmental program, it still doesn't make it infallible. And Pop specifically had a particular, stick-and-stick approach to Lonnie, which from day 1 was apparent not to be the best way to bring him up. Ever since sending him to the G-L for his entire rookie season, hardly if ever calling him up (and when he did, didn't play him), he's been on Lonnie's ass all day, Tony Parker style. Last season was egregious - he was getting benched after the first missed rotation, whereas Forbes and Beli got cooked nightly without repercussions. He repeatedly was one of the Spurs who least saw the floor, including having the lowest amount of minutes played the very next game after his career outing against the Rockettes, and when he did play, he got chewed out. It's clear Pop didn't like his game, and was trying to mold him into something else (his notorious effort into incorporating passing/assists into his game are a testament to this), but can we stop acting like Pop is infallible at development?

Now, it's plain to see that Lonnie's confidence is shot. He doesn't trust his 3pt shot, doesn't trust his midrange, doesn't trust his finishing, and most importantly, doesn't trust himself as someone who can finish plays. He's just a passing machine at this point, and they're not even good, thought-out passes, but scared, don't-make-me-do-this kind of passes. Exactly what you do when you're scared of the repercussions of not passing. Why is it so unbelievable that Pop disliked Lonnie's scoring mentality (which he DID exhibit, in spades, at every point of his development before getting on the Spurs' big club, even in Austin he played nothing like he does today), and pressured him into changing, only for it to fail? I'm not saying Lonnie is blameless at all - at its core, he's the only one who's in his head and he should be playing better. But acting like Pop could not possibly have a part in this because the Spurs have more successes than failures, is just blind Pop-nerism.

It's ironic to think that Rookie Lonnie would run circles around second-year Lonnie, but it's true. He hasn't progressed on defense, despite Pop making it a point of emphasis/punishment for him, and has visibly regressed on offense. I'm still a believer, and definitely will hold out hope until next season, but all this talk about Lonnie is asinine when people pretend like he's the only one to blame for his bad play, then turn around and praise the Spurs' developmental programs for every other of our players' success.

[rjv]

walker has been a disappointment for me this season. first, on defense he gets beat way too often and second, he's starting to hesitate way too much when it comes to offense, whether that's in his hesitancy to drive the ball or when he passes on an open shot. he's clearly in a mental funk at the moment though-1 for 15 in his last two games. he desperately needs a good outing, sooner rather than later.

[stephen jackson]

Don't be surprised if Vassell hits the rookie wall at some point. Keldon might be hitting it now.

And yes I know Keldon isn't a rookie, but he played so few minutes before the bubble that this season is the first time he has played regular minutes for a sustained period.

He may but he’ll still hustle and make plays on defense

[RD2191]

Yeah, it's not like Pop has a history of putting his players in positions to succeed.

I really can't think of any Spurs who have done well under Pop, or gone on to get big contracts and contribute to other teams.

That Pop, he really is the cause of all of our problems. I bet he started COVID as well.

All true tbh. Glad you see the light.