Random Thoughts After LaMarcus Aldridge and the Spurs Split

[talkspurs]

We’re under the tax, but not under the cap.

Your right I meant tax.

[BacktoBasics]

I would be trying to work out a deal with Cleveland. I wouldn't mind taking back Kevin Love's contract for 2 years if it means I get a potentially high lottery pick in return. Also, LMA likely wouldn't be stuck in Cleveland. Since his contract is expiring, they very well could buy him out and he would be free to go where he wants.

Honestly I’m sick of hearing this. There is no way Cleveland is going to give up a lottery pick to shed one extra year of a crappy contract.

That lottery pick has a perceived value more than any two players on our team combined. It’s a deep draft and no one is giving up a lottery pick unless they absolutely rape and gut a team.

[talkspurs]

Honestly I’m sick of hearing this. There is no way Cleveland is going to give up a lottery pick to shed one extra year of a crappy contract.

That lottery pick has a perceived value more than any two players on our team combined. It’s a deep draft and no one is giving up a lottery pick unless they absolutely rape and gut a team.

I believe it is 2 extra years. It goes through the 22-23 year.

[Seventyniner]

Honestly I’m sick of hearing this. There is no way Cleveland is going to give up a lottery pick to shed one extra year of a crappy contract.

That lottery pick has a perceived value more than any two players on our team combined. It’s a deep draft and no one is giving up a lottery pick unless they absolutely rape and gut a team.

Love has two more seasons on his contract after this year. It's a pretty terrible contract. Being able to trade it for expirings would give Cleveland about as much cap space this summer as the Spurs would have if they stand pat ($53M or so minus minimum roster charges and rookie salaries, assuming all cap holds are waived).

Not that Cleveland is a free agent destination, but stupid teams do stupid things sometimes.

[SAGirl]

LMA has been overall a great pro, bit of drama here and there but compared with today's NBA he has been quiet and did his job to the best of his abilities. Spurs should be grateful for that.

Now on the negative side:

- LMA was probably the biggest free agent signing to SA, and I'm not sure his experience will encourage other big names to come here one day. During his tenure here he became a bit invisible for the media and had to mold into Pop mentality of team first stars after. All in all his signing is just confirmation of what was already known on the market, SA is a small market dominated by Pop, if not winning you won't increase your value coming here.
- LMA helped keep alive Spurs competiveness and as already mentionned without uncle and zaza we probably have 1 or 2 les with LMA being second option of a winning team. Unfortunately zaza uncle happened and with LMA Spurs became a slightly above average team. Without LMA Spurs would have moved on faster towards the future.

Welcome back! Agree with this on both counts.

I had wished the Spurs had fallen off sooner and would have probably recovered by now bc I trust their drafting and there have been franchise players going in the lottery in the years they would have sucked hard (after the big 3 retired and Kawhi bolted). I thought that was the perfect time to rebuild. They didn’t and having the big man LMA was a big reason they probably chose to compete and in that he helped them. So if there’s going to be criticism of the decision to keep LMA that should be laid at the feet of the FO. LMA was good for what they wanted to do and IMO he wants to ring chase. He’s old and his days off playing at a high level are likely over, it’s common for guys at this stage to want to move on to teams that are closer to contending. See recently Iguodala and I remember D.West doing the same. People act like they are surprised.

These players want to generally spend their last year or two in a good team. After falling off the playoffs last season I suspect Lamarcus wanted to move on since back then. Demar was in trade rumors last year as well and was not extended so I am simply surprised that it’s become official and that Lamarcus has played his last game as a Spur bc I thought he’d finish out the season but I suspect he has been more than patient because the FO didn’t find a trade they liked. So now he put his foot down and doesn’t want to play until he’s traded or let go. Seems selfish indeed but not if we consider he likely has been trying to get traded since last year (speculation but it was out there).

[SAGirl]

I never quite understood D West he praised the organization while here and then I got the impression he was unhappy afterwards- don't remember the details or even if it was true
As far as the other disgruntled individuals...
Simmons, De Colo, Dedmon, Blair- I think only Dedmon had even a semi- productive career after leaving and is not currently playing at age 30
With all the Spurs tried to help them

D.west was kind of a mystery but he was clearly upset by how he was played in the playoffs in the series against OKC. We wouldn’t know the kind of conversations that happened between him and the FO, but he left the court clearly upset after getting eliminated by OKC in that game 6. Pop could have played Boban or the team could have addressed the problem of playing West as a center earlier in the season through a trade. Diaw and West being manhandled by the bench bigs was a problem through the season people used to call him turd towers 2. Duncan’s knee gave out that year as well which was another reason to try to address the problems with their center rotation and it doomed them. If they thought Boban was the answer he should have been tested sooner (and if found wanting something else could be done). I am not excusing West, but I do think he was upset he left a lot of money to ring chase and the team didn’t do everything they could for that ring. Timmys one good knee quit that year and it was on an expiration date anyways.

that’s my recollection of it. Still West always gave me a bad feeling afterwards, like a player that had a double face. Saying one thing meaning another for example. It was clear he wanted to ring chase and was upset that didn’t happen in SA. One doesn’t know the kind of promises made (to do everything possible to ring that year, then failing to address the problems created by Timmys good knee giving out and Boban not being the answer, or not getting an opportunity earlier in the playoffs). Pop basically died on the hill of having DWest and Diaw play together and being manhandled.

[Mr. Body]

Disagree. There is no such thing as good will. You can certainly harm yourself if you act really poorly but you can’t buy goodwill.

Spurs need assets more than anything else - money talks and they will have a healthy amount of that to convince guys.

You seem to have no idea how this team works whatsoever.

[DPG21920]

You seem to have no idea how this team works whatsoever.

1) That is wrong.

2) It doesn’t change the validity of what I said. The team can act and do whatever they want; but we’ve seen there is no such thing as goodwill truly being quantifiable.

[SAGirl]

I have a bad feeling he just gets bought out

Expecting this myself though I hope for a trade...

[Mr. Body]

1) That is wrong.

2) It doesn’t change the validity of what I said. The team can act and do whatever they want; but we’ve seen there is no such thing as goodwill truly being quantifiable.

You simply have no idea about how the Spurs operate. No idea.

[BacktoBasics]

Love has two more seasons on his contract after this year. It's a pretty terrible contract. Being able to trade it for expirings would give Cleveland about as much cap space this summer as the Spurs would have if they stand pat ($53M or so minus minimum roster charges and rookie salaries, assuming all cap holds are waived).

Not that Cleveland is a free agent destination, but stupid teams do stupid things sometimes.

When I say 1. It’s to shed the one year before he becomes an expiring contract. Which makes him even more movable. Including a savings on a buyout of it were to come to that. There’s no real motivation to move him unless it’s to their benefit.

So really they wouldn’t be moving more than a year of his contract. That’s not worth a lottery. Not even close.

They’re no where near the playoffs.

It would take monumental stupidity to let go of a high lottery pick in a deep draft to save one year. Even if you draft a great prospect you’re likely gonna need a year or two with him to build around it. By then Love is gone anyway.

Do we even have examples of teams moving high lottery picks to shed a contract? Maybe accidentally but not knowingly.

They’re not doing that. There are better odds of Cleveland winning a ring this year than there are of them trading that pick to move Love for Aldridge’s corpse.

[John B]

Thanks Aldridge. Blame Zaza for not ringing up. I can't really blame him for ring chasing at his age. And #12 was always meant for Bruce in the rafters. Goodluck!

[talkspurs]

When I say 1. It’s to shed the one year before he becomes an expiring contract. Which makes him even more movable. Including a savings on a buyout of it were to come to that. There’s no real motivation to move him unless it’s to their benefit.

So really they wouldn’t be moving more than a year of his contract. That’s not worth a lottery. Not even close.

They’re no where near the playoffs.

It would take monumental stupidity to let go of a high lottery pick in a deep draft to save one year. Even if you draft a great prospect you’re likely gonna need a year or two with him to build around it. By then Love is gone anyway.

Do we even have examples of teams moving high lottery picks to shed a contract? Maybe accidentally but not knowingly.

They’re not doing that. There are better odds of Cleveland winning a ring this year than there are of them trading that pick to move Love for Aldridge’s corpse.

Love still has this year and two more after that. If your saying that third year doesnt count because it is movable then LMA should have tons of value because he is in that same spot so is Drummond and Tucker. Griffin would not have been bad as he would have less then have a year left.

As far as a high pick for a player you might be able to look at the Miny pick that was moved to get rid of Wiggins. Druss was gotten back in that trade but his contract is not great either. If they would not want to do this year maybe they do next year. There could be value in the moving his contract how much is up for debate.

[BacktoBasics]

Love still has this year and two more after that. If your saying that third year doesnt count because it is movable then LMA should have tons of value because he is in that same spot so is Drummond and Tucker. Griffin would not have been bad as he would have less then have a year left.

As far as a high pick for a player you might be able to look at the Miny pick that was moved to get rid of Wiggins. Druss was gotten back in that trade but his contract is not great either. If they would not want to do this year maybe they do next year. There could be value in the moving his contract how much is up for debate.

You’re making my point for me.

If we move Aldridge for a piece, great. If we buyout Aldridge and save some money on his final year, great.

Love has two more years. So worst case they’ll save on that second year with a buyout. So like I said they’re really only shedding 1 full year. I guess you could look at it as shedding a year and half if you want to get picky.

It’s a ty crop of FA this off-season. They’re not gonna sign a game changer. Their best shot at a game changer is that pick. Not cap relief.

Your example shows a return of a borderline all star player on the right side of 25. So I’m no Druss fan but he’s arguably a good player in return. A piece they felt would fit alongside KAT and be more impactful than Wiggins.

That’s a lot different than simply moving a pick to shed a contract. Aldridge is no druss... on paper or in reality.

[talkspurs]

You’re making my point for me.

If we move Aldridge for a piece, great. If we buyout Aldridge and save some money on his final year, great.

Love has two more years. So worst case they’ll save on that second year with a buyout. So like I said they’re really only shedding 1 full year. I guess you could look at it as shedding a year and half if you want to get picky.

It’s a ty crop of FA this off-season. They’re not gonna sign a game changer. Their best shot at a game changer is that pick. Not cap relief.

Your example shows a return of a borderline all star player on the right side of 25. So I’m no Druss fan but he’s arguably a good player in return. A piece they felt would fit alongside KAT and be more impactful than Wiggins.

That’s a lot different than simply moving a pick to shed a contract. Aldridge is no druss... on paper or in reality.

Love does not have to accept a buyout so it is not 1 and a half years it is 2. You could actually make the argument the other way in that LMA may be willing to take less since he has more incentive to leave and could give up some money. More teams will be wanting to pick up Aldridge then love so he has more incentive to get out of his contract.

You asked for a trade that someone got a pick for dumping a contract. from what I saw the pick was to take on Wiggins extra years of his contract. Russel is exactly a year young then wiggins.

[Ice009]

He’s actually no longer owed $24M. The remainder of his salary is somewhere in the vicinity of half that. It is a negotiation. Back in the day, it was pretty standard to get 50%, but that seems to have gone up in the last 5-10 years. I don’t believe they can pay him out over subsequent years, since he’s only owed money this year, nor do I want them to. It’s not additional money owed, it’s a discount to money already owed. They’ll just pay him whatever the negotiated amount this year, and that will be less than they owed him originally.

The Spurs don't need to pay him anymore after this season.

This is all about negotiating how much percentage of his contract that LMA wants to give back to the Spurs since he's breaking the contract.

Thanks for the explanation, guys.

Random technical question: if another team signs him this season does that affect how much we owe him? Are we recompensed any of that amount? Perhaps I’m thinking of the stretch provision rules.

Interesting question. I'm curious about this too. If a team signs him for less than the minimum, do the Spurs get some of that money back?

Would've rang in 2016 if Timmy was healthy.
Would've been back to back champs in 2017 if Kawhi wasn't Zaza'd. Overall I feel bad for LMA bc he was robbed of two opportunities for a ring due to injury and his legacy would look A LOT different.

Darn, now that I recall, didn't Tim hurt his knee in the latter part of that season and wasn't the same after that? He was playing at a darn good level before that if I remember correctly? I think that is what ultimately led to his retirement that off-season, didn't it? He was playing very well before hurting his knee and it still didn't feel right in the off-season when he started training from what I remember, and that is what made him call it quits? Anyone remember the details?

[BacktoBasics]

Love does not have to accept a buyout so it is not 1 and a half years it is 2. You could actually make the argument the other way in that LMA may be willing to take less since he has more incentive to leave and could give up some money. More teams will be wanting to pick up Aldridge then love so he has more incentive to get out of his contract.

You asked for a trade that someone got a pick for dumping a contract. from what I saw the pick was to take on Wiggins extra years of his contract. Russel is exactly a year young then wiggins.

Okay buddy. I’m with you. Honestly I can’t believe that no team has jumped on that lottery pick yet since it’s so easy to come by for nothing more than expirings. Definitely looking forward to draft night where we’ll have what? A 15-20% chance of the first pick.

All because we saved Cleveland all that money.

Gonna suck on Spurstalk for few days when we get a second or buyout for nothing when a lottery pick for Aldridge was on the table.

[talkspurs]

Okay buddy. I’m with you. Honestly I can’t believe that no team has jumped on that lottery pick yet since it’s so easy to come by for nothing more than expirings. Definitely looking forward to draft night where we’ll have what? A 15-20% chance of the first pick.

All because we saved Cleveland all that money.


Gonna suck on Spurstalk for few days when we get a second or buyout for nothing when a lottery pick for Aldridge was on the table.

Im not saying we will get one. You asked for a trade where a team did. I showed an example. Your the one saying the last season of a contract doesnt count. if thats the case it should be very easy to trade LMA.

[BacktoBasics]

Im not saying we will get one. You asked for a trade where a team did. I showed an example. Your the one saying the last season of a contract doesnt count. if thats the case it should be very easy to trade LMA.

You didn’t show a legitimate example. Druss made giving the pick for the salary dump palatable. That is a far cry from Aldridge for Love and a high lottery.

It’s ing absurd and like I said it would require our two best players to even sniff that pick. Which for many reasons isn’t a smart move for us.

You people have step way beyond pipe dreams these last few days.

[talkspurs]

You didn’t show a legitimate example. Druss made giving the pick for the salary dump palatable. That is a far cry from Aldridge for Love and a high lottery.

It’s ing absurd and like I said it would require our two best players to even sniff that pick. Which for many reasons isn’t a smart move for us.

You people have step way beyond pipe dreams these last few days.

If your going to change things then you can always find reasons not to believe. Im going to go look at every NBA trade to find one. if you want to look for one thats one you.

[duncan2k5]

I'm not gonna talk good about LMA simply because he is leaving... And I'm not gonna act like a battered wife with low self-esteem... Simply happy that someone wanted me (analogy of star players not choosing San Antonio)

The truth is we should have traded him when he asked for it... That was NOT a team first mentality... Our best regular season ever, and on the way to beating the warriors... Gave him the most successful year he has ever had reaching the wcf... asked for a trade and didn't give a reason not had a conversation with anyone as to why until AFTER he couldn't be traded...

Decided to stay for the money... Not because of some heroic desire to carry us on his back... His body language has been negative ever since...

He and another all star player led us to a first round exit and to the lottery... I remember when we had standards as a fanbase we would RIP them apart for underachieving... Player like that on other teams we used to mock and laugh at... Now we are here saying we are lucky to have them on our team...

And of course to top it off... Mr team player got in his feelings when pop put him on the bench... That's the guy we are gonna show love to? Ginobili accepted a bench role in his prime... Duncan even went to the bench coming off injury once... Duncan! Parker at least accepted a bench role for the season... Those are legendary NBA players... And Mr Aldridge wanted a trade two games after going to the bench... Lol... Good riddance

[wildbill2u]

Is a buyout really worth it when he could just play as a reserve?

[cjw]

The only amount to be stretched is the amount of remaining salary. I thought I read somewhere that he would be owed $8.5 million at the trade deadline. So if they were to stretch it would only be between 2 and 3 million per year. But really, there is no one that they will want to sign to an MLE type contract anyway. If you are going to buy him out then just bite the bullet.

That’s a good point - comes down to whether they want tax room this year to fit another guy, or preserve flexibility going forward. They’re not winning a le this year, so I’d usually say no question you bite the bullet now. But if they have something up their sleeve with a piece of the MLE and it helps make playoffs, I could be fine losing $2-$3mm off cap next two years.

[DPG21920]

You simply have no idea about how the Spurs operate. No idea.

Quality post.

[BacktoBasics]

If your going to change things then you can always find reasons not to believe. Im going to go look at every NBA trade to find one. if you want to look for one thats one you.

Yeah I completely understand. You’ll be looking forever because I doubt such a trade exists or it’s exceedingly rare. Either way what you’re suggesting won’t happen.