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  1. #276
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Do you think the founding fathers would have approved of abortion? Was that their intent?
    They were cool with it since they made zero mention of prohibiting the rather common practice.

  2. #277
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The law though. Now you're saying the law is bad.
    Laws can be stepping on other rights and be declared uncons utional. This has happened with abortion law for a number of decades now.

    There's no question the State has a right to protect human life (and when a clump of cells become human was always a sticky point), but it can't do so stepping on cons utional rights.

    That's why Roe was a careful compromise between two perfectly valid rights colliding with each other.

  3. #278
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Life outside the womb is a completely different matter (legally), especially since the SCOTUS has stipulated that individual legal rights only become dispositive upon birth, and not before it.
    Laws can be stepping on other rights and be declared uncons utional. This has happened with abortion law for a number of decades now.

    There's no question the State has a right to protect human life (and when a clump of cells become human was always a sticky point), but it can't do so stepping on cons utional rights.

    That's why Roe was a careful compromise between two perfectly valid rights colliding with each other.
    This is how we got here. Using the legality of something in a "should" argument will get you here, since it presents a slippery slope. I don't think you meant to get here, but there have been plenty discussions on this board where legality was both the holy grail of righteousness (gun control law arguments) and something to ignore (this most recent version). Laws can indeed be uncons utional but they are still laws, so if legal = right, then anything legal is automatically right.

  4. #279
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    lol DMC makes his non-point.

  5. #280
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    This is how we got here. Using the legality of something in a "should" argument will get you here, since it presents a slippery slope. I don't think you meant to get here, but there have been plenty discussions on this board where legality was both the holy grail of righteousness (gun control law arguments) and something to ignore (this most recent version). Laws can indeed be uncons utional but they are still laws, so if legal = right, then anything legal is automatically right.
    Nobody argued legal=right/wrong, at least not me. That's a moral dilemma, not a legal one.

    That law right now is the law of the land, and must be followed. It will be challenged. If it's found to be uncons utional, then it's going to be short-lived, no longer be the law of the land, and no longer needs to be followed. If it's enactment caused damage, then the State will have to respond for that damage.

  6. #281
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Nobody argued legal=right/wrong, at least not me.
    DMC started punching at a straw man? No way.

  7. #282
    Believe. daboom1's Avatar
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  8. #283
    Believe. daboom1's Avatar
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    panic!

  9. #284
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Michael Scott : When I said that I wanted to have kids, and you said you wanted me to have a vasectomy, what did I do? And then, when you said that you might want to have kids, and I wasn't so sure, who had the vasectomy reversed? And then when you said you definitely didn't want to have kids? Who had it reversed back? Snip, snap! Snip, snap! Snip, snap! I did! You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person!

  10. #285
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    That one on the far left is a living doll.

    I hate those 3 men with every ounce of my being.

  11. #286
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    DMC started punching at a straw man? No way.
    Seldom meets another poster head on, the resort to artful restatement, deflection and strawman is usually instantaneous.

  12. #287
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Seldom meets another poster head on, the resort to artful restatement, deflection and strawman is usually instantaneous.
    You got nary room, Winester.
    tee, hee.

  13. #288
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  14. #289
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This is how we got here. Using the legality of something in a "should" argument will get you here, since it presents a slippery slope. I don't think you meant to get here, but there have been plenty discussions on this board where legality was both the holy grail of righteousness (gun control law arguments) and something to ignore (this most recent version). Laws can indeed be uncons utional but they are still laws, so if legal = right, then anything legal is automatically right.
    What the actual is your point here? This is some serious word salad.

  15. #290
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  16. #291
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    'We need to do it':

    Meet the Texas teen who helped sabotage an anti-abortion tip line


    When an anti-abortion group last week created a “pro-life whistleblower” website encouraging people to anonymously report violations of Texas’ new six-week abortion ban, a group of politically active Texans noticed one potentially fatal flaw.

    “They’re trying to use the internet to retaliate against people who were raised on the internet,” said Olivia Julianna, an 18-year-old student and activist from Sugar Land who is among the leadership of a group called “Gen-Z For Change.”

    The group was formerly known as “TikTok for Biden.”


    Olivia, who goes by only her first and middle names on social media due to safety concerns, said the goal was clear:

    “This website, if we can mess with them in any way,
    if we can stop even one woman from having a lawsuit filed against her or waste even a second of their time, we need to do it.”

    https://www.expressnews.com/politics/texas/article/We-need-to-do-it-Meet-the-Texas-teen-who-16441764.php

  17. #292
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    What the actual is your point here? This is some serious word salad.
    sounds like a crude version of legal positivism whereby anything duly passed by a legislature is valid without qualification, merely by dint of of being agreed to by generally accepted authorities.

    most people believe in a weak version of this, sounds like DMC holds a strong version.

  18. #293
    Believe. daboom1's Avatar
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    That one on the far left is a living doll.

    I hate those 3 men with every ounce of my being.
    The one on the far right looks like Dana Carvey


  19. #294
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    'We need to do it':

    Meet the Texas teen who helped sabotage an anti-abortion tip line


    When an anti-abortion group last week created a “pro-life whistleblower” website encouraging people to anonymously report violations of Texas’ new six-week abortion ban, a group of politically active Texans noticed one potentially fatal flaw.

    “They’re trying to use the internet to retaliate against people who were raised on the internet,” said Olivia Julianna, an 18-year-old student and activist from Sugar Land who is among the leadership of a group called “Gen-Z For Change.”

    The group was formerly known as “TikTok for Biden.”


    Olivia, who goes by only her first and middle names on social media due to safety concerns, said the goal was clear:

    “This website, if we can mess with them in any way,
    if we can stop even one woman from having a lawsuit filed against her or waste even a second of their time, we need to do it.”

    https://www.expressnews.com/politics/texas/article/We-need-to-do-it-Meet-the-Texas-teen-who-16441764.php
    that's not how the law works for sake.

  20. #295
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    Reddit Bans Abortion Bounty Hunter Forum

    "As a bounty hunter, would it be unethical to collect bounty on a perp that I impregnated?," one member wrote, after TXSB8 became law.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg83...y-hunter-forum


  21. #296
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    that's not how the law works for sake.
    It is when this action takes place:::

    Trump President.
    Not Clinton.

  22. #297
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    that's not how the law works for sake.
    yeah, so what?

    they shut down the website anyway

  23. #298
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    yeah, so what?

    they shut down the website anyway
    Ever since:::

    Trump President.
    Not Clinton.

    ...the ends have justified the means for bouts and his people.

  24. #299
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Nobody argued legal=right/wrong, at least not me. That's a moral dilemma, not a legal one.

    That law right now is the law of the land, and must be followed. It will be challenged. If it's found to be uncons utional, then it's going to be short-lived, no longer be the law of the land, and no longer needs to be followed. If it's enactment caused damage, then the State will have to respond for that damage.
    We're a society of laws... the feels or morals of the equation should be largely irrelevant, despite they not always are -ElNono

    But a law is law until it's not a law. The feels or morals should be largely irrelevant.

  25. #300
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Why does that matter? If two get pregnant, why is only one able to decide the fate?
    It matters because the relationship with the host is strictly parasitic during a large part of gestation.

    Like I said many times, if we had the tech to take out the fetus at any time during pregnancy (without any risk to the host) and it could survive, then we would be having a different discussion. But we do not (yet).
    Should she be able to walk away from the newborn once outside of the womb or is that child abandonment?
    Life outside the womb is a completely different matter (legally), especially since the SCOTUS has stipulated that individual legal rights only become dispositive upon birth, and not before it.
    What the actual is your point here? This is some serious word salad.
    sounds like a crude version of legal positivism whereby anything duly passed by a legislature is valid without qualification, merely by dint of of being agreed to by generally accepted authorities.

    most people believe in a weak version of this, sounds like DMC holds a strong version.
    Quite the opposite. I've been asking about right and wrong. ElNono leaned on law so I went that direction.

    Funny how you two come along and pretend that didn't happen.. posters B and C.

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