When will the next MAJOR impact player get drafted?

Originally Posted by couchman

I love this convo! Great takes by a lot of you, even if I don't agree with all of them.

MAJOR Impact players in my lifetime:

Tier 1
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Timmy
LeBron
Kareem

Tier 2
Olajuwon
Kobe
Durant
Karl Malone
Steph Curry
Barkley

Tier 3
Giannis
The Admiral
Kevin Garnett
Isiah Thomas
Chris Paul
AI
Kawhi

Bill Russell's 11 rings and redefining the entire defensive approach to NBA basketball doesn't even get him into tier 3? He's behind AI and Karl Malone? That's crazy talk.

Also, remember just a couple of years ago when people were comparing Anthony Davis with Timmy!?

TD was not only one of the greatest talents and players, but he had that mental for ude and refuse to lose at ude that carried him past players with greater physical gifts.
It is almost always the mental component that separates great players from the GREATEST players.
Mentally weak guys like Durant and Garnett are all time greats, but could have been so much more if they had the warrior spirit of guys at the top.

Originally Posted by R. DeMurre

Bill Russell's 11 rings and redefining the entire defensive approach to NBA basketball doesn't even get him into tier 3? He's behind AI and Karl Malone? That's crazy talk.

"In my lifetime" my guy. I'm not THAT old! haha

Originally Posted by couchman

"In my lifetime" my guy. I'm not THAT old! haha

Originally Posted by couchman

I love this convo! Great takes by a lot of you, even if I don't agree with all of them.

MAJOR Impact players in my lifetime:

Tier 1
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Timmy
LeBron
Kareem

Tier 2
Olajuwon
Kobe
Durant
Karl Malone
Steph Curry
Barkley

Tier 3
Giannis
The Admiral
Kevin Garnett
Isiah Thomas
Chris Paul
AI
Kawhi

Missing Shaq

Originally Posted by couchman

Also, remember just a couple of years ago when people were comparing Anthony Davis with Timmy!?

TD was not only one of the greatest talents and players, but he had that mental for ude and refuse to lose at ude that carried him past players with greater physical gifts.
It is almost always the mental component that separates great players from the GREATEST players.
Mentally weak guys like Durant and Garnett are all time greats, but could have been so much more if they had the warrior spirit of guys at the top.

Add LeBron on that mentally weak. That's why I can never put him in Tier 1 conversation regardless how many times he's been in the finals.

Originally Posted by John B

Missing Shaq

Good call. He's in Tier 2 for me

Originally Posted by XDT76

Your list is funny a prime tier 1 plus tier four player, lost to an aging tier 4 player. They also struggle to win an aging tier 2 player in 7 games and then get spank by that aging tier 2 player the following year.

So his whole career should be whittled down to a 6 game sample size (even if it is the Finals)? Well in that case, a prime Jordan lost to a young O'Neal and Hardaway.

In two of the three Finals vs the Spurs, the Spurs clearly had a better team and had a roughly equal one in the other. It's not an individual sport.

Originally Posted by DeRozan m8

Who gives a about longevity

Lebron has never been able do without a 1b and a lot of cherry picked pieces.

He also had to run away and reset 3 times...pathetic.

His game is also ugly and he holds the ball too long.

He has always been manufactured hype and a loser deep down

So being a superstar longer than anyone in history doesn't matter? Only '94 Olajuwon, '03 Duncan and '11 Nowitzki won without a 1b in recent history.

A young James took a starless Cavaliers to the '07 Finals, then an old one did so in '18, only to lose to a dynasty and dynastic team. Again, it's not an individual sport and whether you find his game aesthetically pleasing or not is irrelevant.

Yeah, with talented, but flawed teams always. He never had pristine cir stances like that affluenza S bag has had.

Well you've had about 20 games to look.

Wemby in the group?

Chet?

Wembys stepping into one of if not the worst starting situation of any of the MAJORs all time.

Duncan is clearly tier 1, I would rank him #2 behind Jordan. You may laugh at this now, but when Spurs goes ringless for two more decades, they will realize how special Duncan really was.

Look at the Spurs franchise that stole so much credit from him, tiny budget, trash tier city for free agents, overrated coach, Duncan got 5 rings with weakest supporting cast and lowest budget (relative to rest of the league) to ever win even 3 rings. Just count David, Kawhi, Tony, and Manu's all-NBA appearances when they played with Duncan. Because of this trash roster he never repeated, and he did so much dirty work on the floor that doesn't give him stats. He is the only player in NBA history to beat two first-team all-NBA's (03 and 07) twice on his way to ring without an all-NBA player on his side.

Imagine if he had Shaq or Kobe (I laugh at any comparison of Duncan vs them, imagine LeBron went 2:3 vs Durant + Curry, beating them in 2018 as the lone star) Curry's roster budget or LeGM's teammates. LeBron is the most calculated star in NBA history. Incredible career planning, GOAT body (partly because he shrewdly avoids any dirty work that doesn't give stats), but not a team player at all, played in the weak East, stacked roster after roster, still only 4 rings.

Curry and Durant are both in David Robinson's tier in terms of overall impact. Joker is already in that tier, he has the best chance to make it top 10 barring injuries.

Originally Posted by hitmantb

Duncan is clearly tier 1, I would rank him #2 behind Jordan. You may laugh at this now, but when Spurs goes ringless for two more decades, they will realize how special Duncan really was.

Look at the Spurs franchise that stole so much credit from him, tiny budget, trash tier city for free agents, overrated coach, Duncan got 5 rings with weakest supporting cast and lowest budget (relative to rest of the league) to ever win even 3 rings. Just count David, Kawhi, Tony, and Manu's all-NBA appearances when they played with Duncan. Because of this trash roster he never repeated, and he did so much dirty work on the floor that doesn't give him stats.

Imagine if he had Shaq or Kobe (I laugh at any comparison of Duncan vs them, imagine LeBron went 2:3 vs Durant + Curry) Curry's roster budget or LeGM's teammates. LeBron is the most calculated star in NBA history. Incredible career planning, GOAT body (partly because he shrewdly avoids any dirty work that doesn't give stats), but not a team player at all, played in the weak East, stacked roster after roster, still only 4 rings.

Curry and Durant are both in David Robinson's tier in terms of overall impact. Joker is already in that tier, he has the best chance to make it top 10 barring injuries.

Spoiler alert: if you have two other HOF players for most of your career, your roster isn’t trash. He got three real good years of David, and over a decade from Tony and Manu as All Star caliber players. The only year he was really alone was 2002-2003.

Originally Posted by exstatic

Spoiler alert: if you have two other HOF players for most of your career, your roster isn’t trash. He got three real good years of David, and over a decade from Tony and Manu as All Star caliber players. The only year he was really alone was 2002-2003.

It is a trash supporting cast for anyone who ever won 3 or more rings. Name any player that won 3 or more rings. Count the number of all-star's on his team during his career.

Parker and Manu are extremely low quality star players for multi-ring teams. Neither plays any real defense and have to be covered by Duncan on defense and relies on Duncan screen on offense as well. Manu is spectacular for 20 minutes a game, a double edged sword rest of the game. Both are relatively fragile (again, for multi-ring supporting cast).

Hall of fame means nothing, LeBron played with Shaq too. Count the actual number of all-stars during Duncan's career.

David: 3
Tony: 6
Manu: 2
Kawhi: 1
Aldridge: 1

That is 13 all-stars appearances, or 2.6 all-star appearances per ring. Do the same math for anyone else in NBA history and you will realize how special Duncan was. Jordan may be the only one with less all-stars per ring. If you factor in the team budget relative to rest of the league, Duncan did a little less with way less resources than even Jordan.

Would you geezers please address Wemby?

Originally Posted by Mul roll

Would you geezers please address Wemby?

Way too early to tell. Not everyone is LeBron, at age 19 he has a long way to go. I actually love the idea of hard tank for his soulmate while he develops his body.

Originally Posted by hitmantb

Way too early to tell. Not everyone is LeBron, at age 19 he has a long way to go. I actually love the idea of hard tank for his soulmate while he develops his body.

Unless you Pro Tankers have someone in mind in the lotto, i see nothing but destruction coming from this Re Ball by Grandpa.

Wemby def is a generational player imo.
Not with Grandpa, but hopefully WORST case scenario he gets some soul mates or bounces from the dictatorship in 5 or less.

Originally Posted by hitmantb

It is a trash supporting cast for anyone who ever won 3 or more rings. Name any player that won 3 or more rings. Count the number of all-star's on his team during his career.

Parker and Manu are extremely low quality star players for multi-ring teams. Neither plays any real defense and have to be covered by Duncan on defense and relies on Duncan screen on offense as well. Manu is spectacular for 20 minutes a game, a double edged sword rest of the game. Both are relatively fragile (again, for multi-ring supporting cast).

Hall of fame means nothing, LeBron played with Shaq too. Count the actual number of all-stars during Duncan's career.

David: 3
Tony: 6
Manu: 2
Kawhi: 1
Aldridge: 1

That is 13 all-stars appearances, or 2.6 all-star appearances per ring. Do the same math for anyone else in NBA history and you will realize how special Duncan was. Jordan may be the only one with less all-stars per ring. If you factor in the team budget relative to rest of the league, Duncan did a little less with way less resources than even Jordan.

I don’t do homework for you. It’s your assertion that other players had better support systems, so show your work. Remember, you only showed spurs who made ASGs when they played on the Spurs with Tim. No cheating with previous All Stars who ring chased late in their careers on, say, the Lakers.

Tough to say duncan had a trash supporting cast but for players with 3+ les it’s hard to find any supporting Cast that is “weaker”. At least in the modern era.

Kareem and magic had each other, plus worthy, then Scott, Nixon, mcadoo.
Bird had mchale and parish, DJ, ainge and Walton.
Jordan had Pippen and grant/rodman (this is actually one of th less loaded lineup but the 90s league was really watered down.
Shaq had kobe, wade.
Kobe coattailed then had MVPau odom and Bynum.
Lebron had wade and bosh, then Irving and love, then unibrow.
Curry had durant, Thompson and green.
You rank all of these players careers and Parker and Manus nba resume is likely in the bottom 1/3