You are deflecting since your original point in which you were implying that Draymond was playing center for large stretches for the Warriors. I corrected you that he wasn't.
The problem with the Spurs is Keldon is grossly undersized to be a PF which makes him a defensive liability at that spot. He looks like he's 6'5 at best. I can't think of a team currently in the league that has 6'5 PF.
Uh but you never proved that point tho. The Warriors closing lineup had Dray at C and iguodala at PF. This was the original "death lineup" and it was dominant. Festus Ezeli played 50 total mins in that 2015 finals series. Bogut played 74. Iggy and Green played 222 minutes. That large enough stretch for you? How were you correcting me again?
Uh but you never proved that point tho. The Warriors closing lineup had Dray at C and iguodala at PF. This was the original "death lineup" and it was dominant. Festus Ezeli played 50 total mins in that 2015 finals series. Bogut played 74. Iggy and Green played 222 minutes. That large enough stretch for you? How were you correcting me again?
Last edited by daslicer; 02-17-2022 at 09:51 PM.
On a sidenote it's weird to see a lot of Spurs fans infatuated with small ball since all the le teams were not small defensively. Especially the first 3 le teams with the Duncan-Robinson set up and then Duncan-Nazr. Even the last le team had the Duncan-Splitter setup and then Duncan-Diaw set up depending on matchups which not even small either.
^ DRob only has 2 les.
Small ball is not just the height, but for of the PF/ C having guard skills, able to run and shoot outside. Ideally you like big men 6’9” PF with 7’ wingspan who can rimrun and shoot the 3. Nowadays, that’s becoming common. But 10-15 years ago, a big man who can run was rare in the exception on DRob, Garnett, C-Webb, etc. Hence, they try to get away with smaller lineup. I see smallball as more of a type of play, not height. If you can get 7 footers with guard skills and not slow, then better.
I didn't say he had 3 les. If your read my post, I said this specifically "Especially the first 3 le teams with the Duncan-Robinson set up and then Duncan-Nazr." Maybe it wasn't clear what I was saying which is Drob-Duncan and Duncan-Nazr were twin tower lineups that won 3 les. I'm fine with a quick athletic guy playing PF that is 6'9. The spurs don't need a twin tower line up but what drives me nuts is how undersized Keldon is. He looks like he's 6'5 at best and we are stuck with him playing PF. It's ok right now since the Spurs have no championship aspirations.
Ignoring the glaring general inaccuracy of a lot of the op's assertions, do we even have an actual PF on the roster to play?
Well according to the data:
KJ is listed at 6'6 now on NBA.com.
6'6 or shorter: UTA (3), MIA (1), PHX (1), HOU (15), CHI (2), POR (10) , GS (2).
KJ is clearly taller than DJ by more than an inch and looks to be the same height as Draymond. How can he be 6’5” at best? Are we relying on old measurements again?
who cares, develop the best talent and give them minutes. Is the team trying to suddenly make the playoffs?
Didn't the league start forcing players to list their height in just socks and not shoes? KJ has the height necessary to play the 3.
Ideally two, then we can get back to normal!
On a vacuum, I agree with you and the energy of your post. Being inadequate at PF puts the Spurs in a lot of losing positions, which is perfect for the short-term tank. The issue to me, is how the Spurs approach Keldon (and the starting PF position as a whole) moving forward - do they recognize Keldon's inadequacy, and draft or trade for adequate talent to fill that hole, or will they double down on him as "PF of the future" and lock him up to a sizeable contract? It's his FA that worries me the most, not Lonnie's and not Devin's, tbh... It'll signal a decisive longer-term view from the FO rather than the immediate "just play him there since we have no other options" plan Pop is going with right now.
Of course, drafting a top-talent PF prospect could be an easy solve for this too. But I'm wary of assuming the Spurs will draft for height, after all these drafts, and especially Primo... I'm fine with BPA, even if it's a guard, but the above has to be taken into account in such a scenario, IMO.
good points, I’m optimistic the FO would recognize how to utilize Keldon at that point after this year’s trade deadline. Decision to trade Derrick and Bryn so Primo gets his rookie minutes… that’s a rare Georgie/Kawhi kind of decision. I like Keldon… hopefully, if the team becomes elite soon, he’s playing a Malik type of role for the team at the very least. No one wants to see another turd towers situation. I doubt we will, and it seems way, way too reactionary to see this current team make up and jump to the conclusion that the coaching staff is committed to KJ and Jakob as the SL frontcourt for hypothetical future scenarios
Thing is Keldon while not exactly a good defender of small forwards is adequate, where as larger players are both shoot over and can over power him. Smaller players may be able to beat him with speed but not having the option to push him around or ignore him forces tougher shots. The biggest issue really seems to be second chance shots. I am not saying that we need him to be Barkley or Rodman, but a starting power forward should be getting 8+ rebounds per game. Keldon averages slightly under 6 for his career which is average for a SF not great. In all honesty the guy should be playing a lower usage version of LeBron in Cleveland firing 3s and when getting smothered on the line bashing his way to the rim. Expecting lots of ball handling and more than adequate defense is a bit much. Having a 7'ish center on the low block and a 6'8"+ power forward who spends his time on the elbows makes sense. Having each player able to switch to the next spot up or down for a few possessions and not be completely out of place makes sense. Expecting a player who isn't above average for the league skill wise or athletics wise to play constantly out of position is asking for problems.
That's also infuriating to me they are taking a player who is obviously compe ive minded, seems to have pretty good skill set for small forward, and has been being asked to work out of position for the last two years which is hurting the team, and the player. If they had a really high end small forward and were forcing a talented player down a spot or were covering for injury but that's not the case the team management seems to have just decided that they would have a number of centers who can't move down to PF, a whole bunch of guards a couple of them might be able to move to SF for some time and maybe a game or two for injury reasons but not regularly and a couple of back-up or situation players at the forward positions.
Last edited by Gagnrath; 02-20-2022 at 08:39 AM.
True.
Again, it's not about height. Barkley, Rodman, Millsap, Williamson, etc. were/are all sub 6'8'' 4s who were/are bigs. Jackson was a wing because he played in an era where playing two big lineups was still the norm.
Green has had greater impact than the overrated Thompson.
It might have had Paul not injured his hamstring (granted, had Iguodala been healthy, the Rockets might not have had the Warriors down 3-2 to begin with).
Those two early 70s Knicks teams that won championships started 6'9" Willis Reed at center, 6'6" Dave Debusschere at PF, and 6'5" Bill Bradley at SF, and that was in an era dominated by centers...
Those three are in the HOF and two of them made the 75th anniversary team. Not bad talent to compensate their heights.
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