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Vassell and KJ were born to play the 4.
He literally thinks it means putting smaller players to play positions that aren't their natural position... No small ball team has ever won a ring... Matter of fact, they all were bigger than average teams...
Before this era, small ball was intiguing because not many bigs shot threes very well, so u had to put a smaller player... In this era where there's more space, and the rules are different, small ball gets punished because the best teams play big... Bucks are HUGE... The Cavs sucked until they started playing their twin towers... Now they're a really good team... Grizzlies sucked until they started playing their twin towers... Now they're a really good team... Even Curry's warriors were on the bigger side when they won rings...
We need to start another actual big player longside Poetl... Bring either either kedlon or Doug off the bench... Kelson is NOT a pf... He is and always has been a SG/SF... His strength is rendered useless against ppl bigger than him... When he plays against SF he can body them inside, and he can still keep up with them on defense...
Big teams win... Cut the small ball
Vassell and KJ were born to play the 4.
We don't have a PF on the roster really aside from maybe KBD who is a fringe rotation player at best. Not sure what you expect them to do right now. I'm sure this will be addressed in the off-season
Starting another big we don't have just to do it is dumb. We should be losing games anyway. Spurs got rid of every player you wanted them to last season and you're still complaining lol
Btw, who are all these contenders that play big? The Cavs have emerged because they drafted top tier talent and have an Allstar PG. It's not because they play big. It's because they lucked into drafting a generational talent in Mobley
Contenders are contenders because they have top end talent and a top 10 players on their team, not because they play big or whatever
Another thing to note, Grizz didn't become good "until they started playing twin towers." The Grizz are elite because Morant has taken a huge leap, Bane has too, and JJJ is healthy. Valancunias was their C with them before and their tall lineup wasn't winning . What a coincidence that all these teams also either have elite PGs or top 10 or MVP level guys on the team.
I've continually said KJ will never be more than what we've seen and that we should trade him while people think he's better than he is. Even his 3pt shot will go to after teams hone in on that skill. Too slow to keep up with gurards or SF and too short vs many SF and PF. Those are issues you can't really solve.
Tank for Chet!
Already calling him that? Ok.
Small ball still sucks tho.
Curry needed Durant. Morant is badass but still hasn't won . Paul? Who are these championship caliber elite point guards you speak of?
Last time an elite PG was killing it in the finals it was TP in 07' and we were a fairly big team.
I'm not saying small ball is awesome or great or defending it. My point is that we, for one, don't have the personnel, and two, OPs point about teams being good this year because the play big being incorrect.
Yes, we need a real PF. But we're also a rebuilding team trying to get a top pick. The only solution to the OP is to start the only PF we have, KBD, which is a bad idea because he isn't good. You don't play big just to do it when you don't have the personnel
top 4 teams in each conference
1. Miami - Bam/Tucker at C/PF (not big ball, Tucker is 6'5")
2. Bulls - Vuc/Demar at C/PF (not big ball, Demar is 6'6")
3. Cleveland Allen/Mobley at C/PF (big ball)
4. 76ers - Embiid/Harris at C/PF (I don't really consider Harris a "big" on O or D, only 6'7")
1. Suns - Ayton/Crowder at C/PF (not big ball, Crowder is 6'7")
2. Warriors - Looney/Green at C/PF (not big ball, Green is 6'5")
3. Grizzlies - Adams/JJJ at C/PF (big ball)
4. Jazz - Gobert/O'Neal at C/PF (not big, O'Neal is 6'5")
I could keep going but you get the point. Only two of these teams play "big" and most of them start an undersized player at PF
It's not 2010 anymore guys. The days of two big teams are over unless one of them is an elite three point shooter
Great post. And it's exactly what the Spurs lack, top end talent (if it comes at the hands of a big man, even better). They'd look completely different if they had, idk, Banchero at PF instead of Keldon.
Ah yes, Durant, the instrumental piece of that '15 Dubs ring. What a tired and stupid shtick
CP3 came extremely close to a ring more than once, was literally in the Finals last season, and only didn't win due to Giannis playing out of his mind, and they have a chance to go at it again. Bad example. Of course Curry is the prime example, but I'm figuring you'll brush him off based on your previous comment. Morant is like 21, of course he hasn't won anything... lol.
Correctly utilized (and well-manned in personnel) small-ball can perfectly be a winning strategy, especially in the modern game. '15 was a testament to it with the Death Lineup and all that jazz.
I like small ball basketball. But your players need to shoot the lights out, or the opponent will control the rebound and the tempo. And the Spurs are not the league best in shooting percentage. In the days of the Bad Boys, they played a 3 guards rotation with Rodman and Laimbeer as bigs, and had no problem repeating. But they had Isiah, Dumars, and Vinnie shooting deep, even Laimbeer ahead of his time shooting outside. The Dubs had Draymond Green, and again best shooting players around. So the argument against small ball as not championship team holds no water. I will not argue which style is best. Certainly Spurs won with the twin tower controlling the tempo, while Knicks big lineup of Ewing, Oakley, Charles Smith, Mason couldn't sniff a final. It depends which team can impose their will, and it’s not necessarily just being big.
I have never liked small ball and never will. You don't need a twin tower set up to win les, but you do need to at least be medium big in size which is to have a 7ft center and a PF that is in the range of 6'7-6'9 in height who has a long wingspan.
Being successful isn't about playing small ball or big ball. As some posters have already explained most good teams don't play big. Lakers are at their best with LeBron at the 5.
It's about three things - the most important is pure talent, then an offensive/defensive scheme that allows the team to not suffer the downsides of playing either small or big ( say rebounding well when playing small or spreading the floor enough when playing big ). The third one is versatility, i.e. being able to field lineups that match well with opponents regardless of how they play.
Last edited by BG_Spurs_Fan; 02-15-2022 at 03:06 PM.
Lakers won a le with Davis playing PF and a combination of Mcgee and Dwight at Center. They weren't small when they won. Playing Lebron at PF for a 5-minute stretch during a le run doesn't count.
Small ball hitting the lights out >>> Bigs 2 points
100 FG x 40% 3pts = 120 pts. >>> 100 FG x 50% 2pts = 100 pts
This is oversimplified to make a point. Nothing wrong with small ball, as long as it’s hitting high percentage shots
I mean, the Heat literally won with Lebron playing almost exclusively PF (and back then that meant he often went against bigger players). We don't have to look to the Lakers to find an example of it.
It's amazing how the winningest coach of all time gets it wrong so often.
Right and outside of the Warriors there is no team that has won a le playing that style. You need to have GOAT level shooters to make that equation you listed above work.
Lebron is a legit 6'9. That's the height of a PF so it's not really playing small ball with him playing at PF and he didn't do it exclusively. They had Shane Battier play PF a lot who is 6'8 and had Haslem who is 6'8 play it a lot. At times Lebron would start at PF but he didn't do it every game.
Bad Boys did with Isiah/Dumars and Microwave from the bench hitting deep, with Rodman at PF. That was the original small ball (at least in my lifetime).
Nah, Lebron played PF basically every second he was on the court. He wasn't just the second-tallest guy on the court either. He specifically bulked up and played with his back to the basket that year. That's why Diaw could supposedly guard him. My point, regardless, wasn't that Lebron playing PF is small-ball. Dude's the same size as Karl Malone was. My point was that there's no reason to talk about whether Lebron won as a PF with the Lakers. He already unabashedly won as a PF for the Heat. That may not be small-ball, but if it is, then it was already before anything with the Lakers recently.
To the actual point of this thread, it shouldn't matter what style wins a le. Not to the Spurs, at least. They're nowhere near a contender, and they'll have to swap out quite a few players to get there. Johnson playing PF now is fine if that's what it takes for the Spurs to develop. I don't think they should be married to it at all, but I also don't think Keldon should be their developmental priority right now anyway.
If it leads to a better draft pick, play smaller imo..
I didn't watch basketball until '92. But I looked up some old videos and I see the Pistons either starting Mahorn at PF or Bill Edwards both were 6'10 and taller. They never started Rodman at PF during their le runs but he started at SF during their second run which gave them a big lineup. I can't see how that lineup is a small ball line up.
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