WHY THE PAST 10 YEARS OF AMERICAN LIFE HAVE BEEN UNIQUELY STUPID

[DMC]

its not really centrism if you are giving equal footing to disproportionate levels of craziness. its like saying "some people say bigfoot is real. others say he's fake. clearly both sides have a problem and cant compromise"

Your hyperbole aside, centrist is up to the beholder. In your case you seem to feel centrist is more left than I would consider it to be. So you'd have to take all the viewpoints equally and find the middle to find true centrist. It doesn't just mean the center beliefs you feel aren't crazy.

[DMC]

i think this is disingenuous both-sides'ing

im not talking about twitter randos. if you look at the actual elected representatives between the parties, how many elected members of congress are "loony far left"... i mean for the sake of argument id grant the obvious Cori Bush, and then you can work through Omar, Tlaib, Pressley, AOC (thought i'd also argue AOC has tamed quite a bit). in the senate you have bernie (though he's much more measured than any of the others i mentioned).

so first, id ask who else you would consider part of the "extremist element" of the left that currently has power. second, i'd ask if this extremist wing actually is "hijacking" the party. are these people really the ones deciding which way the party goes? absolutely not.

otoh, you look at the right, and honestly you can just start and end with Trump. the guy who called Mo Brooks "woke" because Brooks said the 2020 election is over. Mo Brooks. Woke. trump is still by far the most influential voice on the right. the whole party, even those who dont openly support his election nonsense, are still trying to appease him by constantly centering all discussions around election integrity.

there's no comparison. and thats without even getting into the substance of policy.

Social media isn't dominated by elected officials.

[Spurminator]

Good article.


Lol, all the complaints of "both-sides'ing".

Another valuable contribution Thank you for offering so much to intellectually stimulate us.

[Spurminator]

It's about personality and ability to win. Your stance means jack if you cannot win the office.

Maybe for Republicans. The types who elect Donald Trump to the Presidency and whoever else shouts the craziest things the loudest.

Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi don't continue to win elections on their "personality."

[baseline bum]

I don't think that if you asked Haidt (certainly if you asked me) that he'd say that the left and the right are equal in tiness. They're not, the right is worse.

What's more interesting to me is that yours, and BB's, and I suspect other's reactions to the article is: the left is better than the right. That seems to miss the overarching point of the article - both right and left are being hijacked by extremist elements that have weaponized social media. In that respect, I think left and right are equal.

What do you even mean by the left? What exactly is the left in America? Bernie Sanders? Because it's really hard to argue the Democratic party is being hijacked by the left when their last two nominations were Clinton and Biden and when the party went all out to deny Sanders a primary win in 2020 by having everyone drop out and endorse Biden as soon as Bernie had momentum going. This is some bothsides crap. The left has no big media like Clear Channel, Fox News, or Sinclair pushing their agenda onto the Democratic party.

[DarrinS]

Another valuable contribution Thank you for offering so much to intellectually stimulate us.

I can appreciate the argument made in the article without hurt feelings. You, and some others, had a different reaction.

[baseline bum]

I think you're narrowing the scope of the article and the issue with this caveat. Like I said, the right is worse. I think Haidt would agree with me too. What he and I would take issue though is that you're focusing on elected officials and, rightfully, saying those on the right are worse. We get it - they are. But there is a cultural dynamic that is going on that you're not appreciating/losing out on when you focus on elected officials in Washington.

What's being lost out are twitter randos, activists, academics, and other cultural outlets like actors, musicians, etc... The cultural ins utions Haidt identifies have had and are having a profound effect on the way we talk and think about (from both perspectives) and the loudest voices in the room are coming from the extremes and not the center. While that may not be reflected in congress yet doesn't mean it's not happening.

Academics, actors, and musicians have been largely on the left for 50 years now, means nothing. None of them run the nation. The elected officials do. And again, the center is closer to Bernie than it is Biden or Romney much less Trump. We're the majority but we can't buy off politicians.

[DarrinS]

Academics, actors, and musicians have been largely on the left for 50 years now, means nothing. None of them run the nation. The elected officials do. And again, the center is closer to Bernie than it is Biden or Romney much less Trump. We're the majority but we can't buy off politicians.

Wut?

[ChumpDumper]

I can appreciate the argument made in the article without hurt feelings. You, and some others, had a different reaction.

Your feelings are hurt by imaginary CRT and math problems.

[baseline bum]

Wut?

Bernie is the only one pushing for single payer healthcare and it's what he runs on.

[Blake]

Good article.


Lol, all the complaints of "both-sides'ing".

I mean, conservatives want creation taught in school while liberals want evolution taught. There's GOTTA be common ground somewhere!

Or not.

[spurraider21]

I think you're narrowing the scope of the article and the issue with this caveat. Like I said, the right is worse. I think Haidt would agree with me too. What he and I would take issue though is that you're focusing on elected officials and, rightfully, saying those on the right are worse. We get it - they are. But there is a cultural dynamic that is going on that you're not appreciating/losing out on when you focus on elected officials in Washington.

What's being lost out are twitter randos, activists, academics, and other cultural outlets like actors, musicians, etc... The cultural ins utions Haidt identifies have had and are having a profound effect on the way we talk and think about (from both perspectives) and the loudest voices in the room are coming from the extremes and not the center. While that may not be reflected in congress yet doesn't mean it's not happening.

because if you dont narrow it, its somewhat meaningless. how can you actually measure how prominent the "crazy left" is vs the "crazy right"? well i know the crazy right is actually represented at the highest levels of government, but ive seen some people get ratio'd on twitter so i guess both sides have a crazy problem. if you want to present to what extent each side has a problem, then you should be able to quantify it for us to have real takeaways. i'd say what faction of each side actually directs policy for that party or has significant power within the party is pretty important, as opposed to just claiming that both sides have some issues within their fringes.

if the loudest voices on the left were actually coming from the extremes, we'd see much more of those extremes being represented in legislative bodies. spoiler alert: we dont.

and this isnt me arguing substantively that the crazy left is "better" than the crazy right. i'm just saying what most people would consider the "crazy left" has almost no pull in national politics whereas what people would consider the "crazy right" basically has a strangehold on the entire GOP

[Thread]

I mean, conservatives want creation taught in school while liberals want evolution taught. There's GOTTA be common ground somewhere!

Or not.

Blake, acting like somebody, all the sudden.

Look at ya; you look like a million bucks, sweetheart.

[ElNono]

Hard to argue politics has taken a hard turn towards idiocracy, and social media, lacking any sort of depth, greatly contributes to that.

We can argue whether the left more, or the right more, but there should be relative consensus that this turn is a disservice to the nation.

[Blake]

Blake, acting like somebody, all the sudden.

Look at ya; you look like a million bucks, sweetheart.

Sorry I should have used the sarcastic colored font.

[ElNono]

It's like a race to the bottom too... like who can have the most attention whoring, untenable position...

[Thread]

Sorry I should have used the sarcastic colored font.

Or, the sourpuss you've been carrying around for 3 days straight.

[spurraider21]

Hard to argue politics has taken a hard turn towards idiocracy, and social media, lacking any sort of depth, greatly contributes to that.

We can argue whether the left more, or the right more, but there should be relative consensus that this turn is a disservice to the nation.

social media, and in particular, twitter, have been catastrophic when it comes to political discourse. it all comes down to a nice zinger in 280 characters, or a 90 second soundbite, as opposed to anything resembling an informed discussion or people actually articulating their positions.

its how morons like rand paul get so popular. oh here's a baller 90 second clip of me talking to fauci in his face and calling for him to resign. nevermind the fact that he responded and tore down every mistake i made in that clip, you dont get to see that!

and while i used rand as my example, id say that phenomenon isnt exclusive to the right... though again, i will always defer to the fact that the "loony right" has much more pull than the "loony left" so for every 1 democrat politician who pulls a stunt like that, there are 4-5 republicans doing the same. i'd say same with pundits. conservative pundits largely dominate social media.

[Thread]

social media, and in particular, twitter, have been catastrophic when it comes to political discourse. it all comes down to a nice zinger in 280 characters, or a 90 second soundbite, as opposed to anything resembling an informed discussion or people actually articulating their positions.

its how morons like rand paul get so popular. oh here's a baller 90 second clip of me talking to fauci in his face and calling for him to resign. nevermind the fact that he responded and tore down every mistake i made in that clip, you dont get to see that!

and while i used rand as my example, id say that phenomenon isnt exclusive to the right... though again, i will always defer to the fact that the "loony right" has much more pull than the "loony left" so for every 1 democrat politician who pulls a stunt like that, there are 4-5 republicans doing the same. i'd say same with pundits. conservative pundits largely dominate social media.

You have to figure a way to turn the clock back, 21.

Chop/chop!!!

[Spurminator]

I can appreciate the argument made in the article without hurt feelings. You, and some others, had a different reaction.

My feelings weren't hurt. I agree with pretty much everything the author said. I don't agree that the problem is equal on both sides.

[DMC]

Maybe for Republicans. The types who elect Donald Trump to the Presidency and whoever else shouts the craziest things the loudest.

Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi don't continue to win elections on their "personality."

Personality meaning who you run. Why didn't Bernie win, or Bootyjugs? You run who you think can win. Joe didn't win because of his stance. He won because he was Obama's VP and he wasn't Trump.

[DMC]

My feelings weren't hurt. I agree with pretty much everything the author said. I don't agree that the problem is equal on both sides.

Of course, you and RG do the full face paint, cheese head blue fan . Your side is never wrong.

[DMC]

Hard to argue politics has taken a hard turn towards idiocracy, and social media, lacking any sort of depth, greatly contributes to that.

We can argue whether the left more, or the right more, but there should be relative consensus that this turn is a disservice to the nation.

I disagree about social media. It's like saying rap contributes to gang violence. Social media is a by product of a failing society, it's not the cause.

[vy65]

because if you dont narrow it, its somewhat meaningless. how can you actually measure how prominent the "crazy left" is vs the "crazy right"? well i know the crazy right is actually represented at the highest levels of government, but ive seen some people get ratio'd on twitter so i guess both sides have a crazy problem. if you want to present to what extent each side has a problem, then you should be able to quantify it for us to have real takeaways. i'd say what faction of each side actually directs policy for that party or has significant power within the party is pretty important, as opposed to just claiming that both sides have some issues within their fringes.

if the loudest voices on the left were actually coming from the extremes, we'd see much more of those extremes being represented in legislative bodies. spoiler alert: we dont.

and this isnt me arguing substantively that the crazy left is "better" than the crazy right. i'm just saying what most people would consider the "crazy left" has almost no pull in national politics whereas what people would consider the "crazy right" basically has a strangehold on the entire GOP

Why is it meaningless? I’m sure if you and I cared enough, we could find a volume of social psychology research that tries to quantify/measure this on social media, but I don’t think that’s even necessary. The past 10 years (and especially the past 2, post Floyd) has seen a marked shift to the left in terms of pet political agendas like iden y politics and on the right in terms of qanon re ation like stop the steal. It’d be nice if we could quantify it, but cultural/social psychology issues like this are always going to be more art than science and you’re trying to fit a round peg through a round hole by reducing the issue to what can be quantified, whether through elected representatives or otherwise.

[vy65]

I disagree about social media. It's like saying rap contributes to gang violence. Social media is a by product of a failing society, it's not the cause.

And the award for the laziest, offhand, and completely unsupported analogy (if you can even call it that) goes to …