Did we make a mistake with Derozan?

[BatManu20]

The mistake was trading for Derozan in the first place. Should have swallowed their pride and sent KL to the Lakers for Ingram and w/e else.. Demar is junk at the end of the day. This last season proves that point.

Tough situation cause you basically would’ve gifted LA at least one Championship, maybe more. But getting Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball back would’ve been better than what we got. We then could’ve then traded Lonzo for another high-end pick if we wanted, and traded Kuzma for whatever we could get for him. That definitely was the smarter move basketball-wise. But gifting Lebron & the lakers a Chip or maybe even multiple would’ve been a hard pill to swallow tbh.

Spurs unrealistically asked for like 4 FRP’s too from the lakers though, basically making it impossible for the Lakers to trade for him. Ended up with DeMar, Jak, & Keldon and the rest is history.

[The Truth #6]

We made a mistake not recognizing that losing Kawhi was going to lead to mediocrity and should have accepted that we very quickly were rebuilding. That lack of recognition lasted for almost three years and still feels horrible even though it is finally over. In retrospect, they should have dumped LMA first while he had value. Loved last season relatively speaking compared to the DDR years. Anyway. I can't imagine there should be much to debate about this. We're worse off now because of it, but at least we are moving in a better direction.

[exstatic]

The mistake was trading for Derozan in the first place. Should have swallowed their pride and sent KL to the Lakers for Ingram and w/e else.. Demar is junk at the end of the day. This last season proves that point.

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

[rjv]

DDR ting the bed no surprise there but injuries were a contributing factor. Lonzo and Caruso make the DDR/Lavine combo much better in many ways.

Also, Lavine still probably isn’t leaving though injuries, a playoff meltdown and sub max offer were stated on here by myself and others as the potential catalysts for him to leave.

whether lavine leaves or not just comes down to his market value. does chicago think enough of him to offer the max or, if not, will some other team offer it? i don't think lavine is of he curry/duncan school of taking a pay cut for the good of the team (few players are, tbh).

[KingKev]

whether lavine leaves or not just comes down to his market value. does chicago think enough of him to offer the max or, if not, will some other team offer it? i don't think lavine is of he curry/duncan school of taking a pay cut for the good of the team (few players are, tbh).

The Bulls wen’t all in to put a team around him. Doubt they risk losing him for not offering him the max.

In a very thin free agency Lavine holds all the cards. If he does want out he is probably good enough to dictate where as Chicago will likely be inclined to work a sign and trade.

I’m all for maxing him out outright if he wanted to come to SA but wouldn’t be offering much in a sign and trade.

[MultiTroll]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

This.
IIRC it was Magic at the GM controls of the Fake Show at that time.
Of course he floated some ridiculous offer.
Don't blame Pop for saying stop talking to that got.

[Ocotillo]

Didn't see the game, was the Chicago crowd chanting MVP when DRozz was shooting free throws?

[Ocotillo]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Yeah, I don't recall BI was even being offered at the time. I even recall some arguing that we should demand Ingram but he had some sort of blood test that was concerning at the time too which clouded is future. I guess nothing ever came of that.

Now for AD, they backed up the Brinks truck and NOLA has come out of that looking like a champ.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Demar had that game leading -24 +/- yesterday. Nice to see that playoff DeRozan is in full form.

[Ice009]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Maybe the Lakers would have done it if the Spurs showed any interest in trading with them. I am sure if the Spurs said something like "we will trade you Kawhi, but we want a package built around Brandon Ingram," I think the Lakers would have ended up doing it. If the Lakers still didn't budge, then you can't really blame the Spurs. Questions is, did they have any interest in Ingram, and did they even try to get him, or did they not even ask about him because they didn't want to trade with them at any cost?

[daslicer]

We made a mistake not recognizing that losing Kawhi was going to lead to mediocrity and should have accepted that we very quickly were rebuilding. That lack of recognition lasted for almost three years and still feels horrible even though it is finally over. In retrospect, they should have dumped LMA first while he had value. Loved last season relatively speaking compared to the DDR years. Anyway. I can't imagine there should be much to debate about this. We're worse off now because of it, but at least we are moving in a better direction.

I was one of the few that wanted to just let Kawhi walk for nothing because I felt the Spurs weren't going to get anything of value and should just start on the rebuild immediately instead of trying to waste a few years of being mediocre. Pop's ego wouldn't allow it since he needed Demar and LMA to pad up his win total to get the record.

[exstatic]

I was one of the few that wanted to just let Kawhi walk for nothing because I felt the Spurs weren't going to get anything of value and should just start on the rebuild immediately instead of trying to waste a few years of being mediocre. Pop's ego wouldn't allow it since he needed Demar and LMA to pad up his win total to get the record.

Yea, that’s a really dumb take, considering that FAs don’t sign here, and we have Keldon, Jak, or whatever he brings in trade, plus two FRPs all spun off from that trade.

[rascal]

Maybe the Lakers would have done it if the Spurs showed any interest in trading with them. I am sure if the Spurs said something like "we will trade you Kawhi, but we want a package built around Brandon Ingram," I think the Lakers would have ended up doing it. If the Lakers still didn't budge, then you can't really blame the Spurs. Questions is, did they have any interest in Ingram, and did they even try to get him, or did they not even ask about him because they didn't want to trade with them at any cost?

Ingram wasn't the player he is now at the time. The Spurs were not interested in what the Lakers wanted to offer, including Ingram.

[daslicer]

Yea, that’s a really dumb take, considering that FAs don’t sign here, and we have Keldon, Jak, or whatever he brings in trade, plus two FRPs all spun off from that trade.

More like an idiotic response by you. I never said the Spurs would have gotten good FA's dumbass but they would have gotten better draft picks if they didn't waste time with the idea they could still be a winner with LMA-Derozan pairing. They should have started the rebuild in the summer of 2018 instead of pushing it off for 3 years. Those 3 years resulted in nothing of good value.

Also the Spurs only got 1 first round pick out of that trade and not two. Keldon is a tweener and you don't win with those type of guys long term in this league. Jak is a solid center but isn't anything special that we couldn't have eventually found through the draft.

[exstatic]

More like an idiotic response by you. I never said the Spurs would have gotten good FA's dumbass but they would have gotten better draft picks if they didn't waste time with the idea they could still be a winner with LMA-Derozan pairing. They should have started the rebuild in the summer of 2018 instead of pushing it off for 3 years. Those 3 years resulted in nothing of good value.

Also the Spurs only got 1 first round pick out of that trade and not two. Keldon is a tweener and you don't win with those type of guys long term in this league. Jak is a solid center but isn't anything special that we couldn't have eventually found through the draft.

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade.

Jak
FRP - became Keldon
Demar
- flipped for
Aminu
Chicago's 2025 FRP and SRP
Thad
- flipped for Toronto's FRP this year

We could still leverage more picks out of this for Jak. I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

[JeffDuncan]

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade. …

The word “cascade” has a root meaning of ‘fall.’ It’s a well chosen word.

Observe:

2018-19, 48 wins and 34 losses.
2019-20, 32 and 39
2020-21, 33 and 39
2021-22, 34 and 48

It’s a fall alright, right over the edge of the cliff. LMA and DDR held the line for one season, and then, down we go.

... I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

In fact, it does look like nothing. Might as well have traded for draft picks. But you never know at the time.

[exstatic]

The word “cascade” has a root meaning of ‘fall.’ It’s a well chosen word.

Observe:

2018-19, 48 wins and 34 losses.
2019-20, 32 and 39
2020-21, 33 and 39
2021-22, 34 and 48

It’s a fall alright, right over the edge of the cliff. LMA and DDR held the line for one season, and then, down we go.



In fact, it does look like nothing. Might as well have traded for draft picks. But you never know at the time.

We did get draft picks. Not right away, but we have one FRP on deck and one in 2025, plus the Keldon pick. We’re at 3 FRPs and counting. If they move Jak this summer or next deadline, that will be another FRP.

[offset formation]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Final offer I read from somewhere at the time was Hart, BI, FRP, SRP.

[daslicer]

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade.

Jak
FRP - became Keldon
Demar
- flipped for
Aminu
Chicago's 2025 FRP and SRP
Thad
- flipped for Toronto's FRP this year

We could still leverage more picks out of this for Jak. I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

Now you are trying to change the original argument from what the Spurs received in the actual trade which was Derozan,Jakob, and Keldon Johnson to what they additionally got from flipping Derozan. If you play that game it opens up a rabbit hole that we can play for years. Those picks we flip for Derozan won't mean jack in the scheme of things unless the Spurs get an all-star caliber player out of one of those picks. If it's just another role player then it's pretty much useless since you need an all-star caliber player at least to move up from being a lottery to being a playoff team to eventually being a good team. Getting another bunch of role players on the level of a Vassell which is what the Spurs will probably get with these picks isn't going to move the needle for them. If I'm wrong I will eat crow but I'm not optimistic the Spurs will get anything special with those picks.

I look at the Grizzlies they rebuilt their team quickly during the same time the Spurs were going through the Kawhi fiasco. They got Jaren Jackson Jr in the summer of '18 and then in the summer of '19 they got Ja Morant. Spurs could have used that time period to rebuild but instead played the stupid game of being a mediocre borderline playoff team and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

[rascal]

The bottom line is up to this point in time the Spurs record has gotten worse since the trade so the picks haven't panned out in improving the team to this point.

[rascal]

Now you are trying to change the original argument from what the Spurs received in the actual trade which was Derozan,Jakob, and Keldon Johnson to what they additionally got from flipping Derozan. If you play that game it opens up a rabbit hole that we can play for years. Those picks we flip for Derozan won't mean jack in the scheme of things unless the Spurs get an all-star caliber player out of one of those picks. If it's just another role player then it's pretty much useless since you need an all-star caliber player at least to move up from being a lottery to being a playoff team to eventually being a good team. Getting another bunch of role players on the level of a Vassell which is what the Spurs will probably get with these picks isn't going to move the needle for them. If I'm wrong I will eat crow but I'm not optimistic the Spurs will get anything special with those picks.

I look at the Grizzlies they rebuilt their team quickly during the same time the Spurs were going through the Kawhi fiasco. They got Jaren Jackson Jr in the summer of '18 and then in the summer of '19 they got Ja Morant. Spurs could have used that time period to rebuild but instead played the stupid game of being a mediocre borderline playoff team and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Even New Orleans is turning that team around after having to move a star player.

Depending on the lottery outcome, they'll also get the 8th pick right before the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

Final offer I read from somewhere at the time was Hart, BI, FRP, SRP.

Lakers picks would have been garbage, nowhere near as good an offer as New Orleans got for Davis since the #4 pick was part of that.

[duncan2k5]

The bottom line is up to this point in time the Spurs record has gotten worse since the trade so the picks haven't panned out in improving the team to this point.

The Spurs got better by trading DeRozan who took us to the lottery 2 years in a row... Our record is a game or 2 worse because the west has gotten even better than they were last year

[KingKev]

The Spurs got better by trading DeRozan who took us to the lottery 2 years in a row... Our record is a game or 2 worse because the west has gotten even better than they were last year

Our record is considerably worse this year then the year before. We played a full season (82) vs a shortened season (72) and came out with one more win.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Our record is considerably worse this year then the year before. We played a full season (82) vs a shortened season (72) and came out with one more win.

I can't tell if you are serious. The first draft pick is the Laker's pick this year and the other is in 2025. For our players to improve they have to play. I think it is undeniable that DJM showed significant improvement this year as did KJ and Vassell. It also became clear (at least to the FO) that White didn't fit. None of that occurs to the degree it did IMO with DeRozan here. Also to keep DDR you likely are signing him to a 3 year deal at $25 to 30 million. That would severely hamper the flexibility the Spurs currently have moving forward. So are you saying the goal this year should have been to have home-court in the play-in game? So then we are likely drafting 12th instead of 9th. Pray tell, what do you think the outcome of this season would be if we had kept DDR?