Deandre Ayton, the final piece of the puzzle?

[Mr. Body]

It's tough bc you can't say oh we don't need to worry about a replacement to our second best player when yes, yes we do. Poeltl is a C player and a B player like Ayton would help us as an upgrade. But does he really help in the way that we need him to defensively. The guy got bodied up by Luka and flat out quit when adversity hit him. I can't get over that. Facing Luka 4 times a year and potentially in the playoffs might just kill his confidence. The dude needs to go East to save his career.

Do you want to pay A++ money for a B player?

And, as you point out, he's not very good defensively. He's not a shot blocker and he isn't great in space. I'm not even sure he's that much better than Poeltl offensively -- Jakob made a big leap this year in scoring but especially as a facilitator, which Ayton is not. The only area where Ayton is clearly better is ft%.

[Leetonidas]

No. He will command a max and he is not good enough on either side of the ball to warrant it. Him being the highest paid player on our team will cripple our flexibility and ensure we remain on the treadmill. Plus there are questions about his drive and work ethic. Unless he's coming for 15-18 mil a season, no thanks

[Mr. Body]

No. He will command a max and he is not good enough on either side of the ball to warrant it. Him being the highest paid player on our team will cripple our flexibility and ensure we remain on the treadmill. Plus there are questions about his drive and work ethic. Unless he's coming for 15-18 mil a season, no thanks

This guy gets it.

[Ice009]

Do you want to pay A++ money for a B player?

And, as you point out, he's not very good defensively. He's not a shot blocker and he isn't great in space. I'm not even sure he's that much better than Poeltl offensively -- Jakob made a big leap this year in scoring but especially as a facilitator, which Ayton is not. The only area where Ayton is clearly better is ft%.

I personally, would not want to pay max money for a B player. If there was a chance of him becoming an A+ player I'd do it, but in this case, not sure he'll ever be one. I'd have to agree with Leetonidas' take.

[KobesAchilles]

Do you want to pay A++ money for a B player?

And, as you point out, he's not very good defensively. He's not a shot blocker and he isn't great in space. I'm not even sure he's that much better than Poeltl offensively -- Jakob made a big leap this year in scoring but especially as a facilitator, which Ayton is not. The only area where Ayton is clearly better is ft%.

I mean it's not A++ money for him bc that's the supermax in my eyes. But it still is like $32 million a year. I wouldn't pay him it, but without an elite big man we are going to be where we have been for the past couple of years (10th to 12th best record in the west)

I just want to say that there is no quick fix for this team. Our best bet is the Phoenix or Dallas routine. It takes luck and smarts bc we could be like the Pistons and Kings, but I believe that we are a better run organization than them, so with the same opportunity we will make the most of it.

[rjv]

not a hard pass but definitely a pass for me

[Ice009]

not a hard pass but definitely a pass for me

Yeah, pretty much the same for me.

Do you guys think he still has potential to improve much? This is the main question for me. If he can improve and become even an A- player (borderline All Star level player) at some point during the contact, I'd have a long hard think about going after him.

[Drom John]

If the Spurs don't draft a center, at the beginning of free agency, I would offer a Poeltl like contract to Mitc Robinson.
Not because Robinson is as good as Poeltl, but because Robinson is worth Poeltl money. (Poeltl is worth more.)

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, pretty much the same for me.

Do you guys think he still has potential to improve much? This is the main question for me. If he can improve and become even an A- player (borderline All Star level player) at some point during the contact, I'd have a long hard think about going after him.

TBH, everything about how he's acted and what he's said reads John Collins to me, and dozens of other players who are aiming for that big contract and then stop working hard after they get it. I don't like contract year players especially one who's so expensive.

[cd98]

Given Ayton staying up late gaming the day before a game and stuff like that and the tension it brought to the Suns, I doubt the Spurs go for that. In fact, I think a lot of teams will be somewhat weary of that.

[slick'81]

Given Ayton staying up late gaming the day before a game and stuff like that and the tension it brought to the Suns, I doubt the Spurs go for that. In fact, I think a lot of teams will be somewhat weary of that.

wat ? He stayed up late playing video games one night? Thats the knock

[Ice009]

TBH, everything about how he's acted and what he's said reads John Collins to me, and dozens of other players who are aiming for that big contract and then stop working hard after they get it. I don't like contract year players especially one who's so expensive.

Hearing the term "contract year player "brings back memories of Erick Dampier back in the day. He's someone I remember as a contract year player. If Ayton is in the same category, I will pass.

[rjv]

i don't know about the video gaming but there have been questions about ayton's at ude, including a game 7 feud with monty.

[KingKev]

All we need is a young bigman and we are set for the next 10 years. Make it happen RC

Seems his party is not in good terms with the suns, can we afford him?

You can’t honestly believe this?

DJ/Vassell/Primo/Keldon/Ayton isn’t even a playoff team.

[pad300]

Yeah, pretty much the same for me.

Do you guys think he still has potential to improve much? This is the main question for me. If he can improve and become even an A- player (borderline All Star level player) at some point during the contact, I'd have a long hard think about going after him.

He's shown no sign of plateau-ing yet, and he's only 23. Also, bigs tend to be a little later developing (for example, consider what Poeltl has done with us, from age 23 to 26)

[pad300]

...
Plus Ayton has all the same flaws defensively as Poeltl. He gets dominated by elite big men and isn't really a factor on offense to take advantage of teams playing small. He's by far a better offensive player than Poeltl in that he is a lob threat and makes free throws, but not enough to move the needle. ...

Really? (All stats from Stathead basketball)

Jokic vs Ayton, Head to Head in the playoffs, Last Year.
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

They single covered Jokic with Ayton. Domination it was not. Compare with Poeltl vs Jokic in the playoffs (2019)

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

Valancuinas vs Ayton, Head to Head in the playoffs, this year
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

I'd say Ayton took that argument... Poeltl meanwhile

Val vs Poeltl (regular season - they have never had a playoff series HtH)

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...oeltja01#stats

As I've said before about Poeltl:

... He's got strategic flaws: First, like Gobert, he can't punish a team that plays tiny ball against him (note that both he and Gobert are OK for C's on the perimeter). This weakness has been the Jazz's downfall in a couple of playoff series. Second, he gets his pushed in a by a good classical big man; see what J Val consistently does to him. Getting wrecked both by tiny ball and by classic ball, at least 1 weakness too many for a starter at a championship level - you will face teams that can play both those styles before you ring...

Ayton doesn't have either of those problems. He's young, and can potentially get better. For an FA we can actually get (ie. not the Lebron's and Durant's of the world), he about as good as we could hope to draw... and either we use the space this summer or it goes away.

[KobesAchilles]

Really? (All stats from Stathead basketball)

Jokic vs Ayton, Head to Head in the playoffs, Last Year.
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

They single covered Jokic with Ayton. Domination it was not. Compare with Poeltl vs Jokic in the playoffs (2019)

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

Valancuinas vs Ayton, Head to Head in the playoffs, this year
https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...stats_playoffs

I'd say Ayton took that argument... Poeltl meanwhile

Val vs Poeltl (regular season - they have never had a playoff series HtH)

https://stathead.com/basketball/h2h_...oeltja01#stats

As I've said before about Poeltl:



Ayton doesn't have either of those problems. He's young, and can potentially get better. For an FA we can actually get (ie. not the Lebron's and Durant's of the world), he about as good as we could hope to draw... and either we use the space this summer or it goes away.

I mean that backed up what I said to a tee. Thanks for reinforcing my statement I guess. I said he was better offensively than Poeltl but he still gets manhandled by bigmen and keeping Jokic to 27 points, 10 rebounds, and 7 assists, isn't limiting Jokic at all. Then you showed me a series where Jokic put up similar numbers against Poeltl. So defensively he isn't really an upgrade.

And this year when Dallas went small and spaced the floor, Ayton wasn't able to dominate offensively to make Dallas pay for playing so small. In fact, he was being sought after time after time bc he sucks so much against small ball/ pace and space.

Ayton isn't going to get any better. He had Chris Paul giving him easy shots where it upped his field goal percentage by a lot. He went from mid 50s in FG% to mid 60s with CP3. That's not a coincidence. Ayton is done as a player. Luka broke him. He is now seen as a bust. He needs to go East and restart his career. Find a way to go to CHA and play with a pass first point guard like Ball. Bc Phoenix will lose next year in the 1st round, even with him, and then CP3 will be broken and that team is done in 2024. Ayton will be known as the player picked above Luka and you look back at and say well he averaged 13 and 8 for his career, so he wasn't a complete bust, but given that he was picked over Luka Legend we still put him on the list of all-time greatest busts.

[rjv]

I mean that backed up what I said to a tee. Thanks for reinforcing my statement I guess. I said he was better offensively than Poeltl but he still gets manhandled by bigmen and keeping Jokic to 27 points, 10 rebounds, and 7 assists, isn't limiting Jokic at all. Then you showed me a series where Jokic put up similar numbers against Poeltl. So defensively he isn't really an upgrade.

And this year when Dallas went small and spaced the floor, Ayton wasn't able to dominate offensively to make Dallas pay for playing so small. In fact, he was being sought after time after time bc he sucks so much against small ball/ pace and space.

Ayton isn't going to get any better. He had Chris Paul giving him easy shots where it upped his field goal percentage by a lot. He went from mid 50s in FG% to mid 60s with CP3. That's not a coincidence. Ayton is done as a player. Luka broke him. He is now seen as a bust. He needs to go East and restart his career. Find a way to go to CHA and play with a pass first point guard like Ball. Bc Phoenix will lose next year in the 1st round, even with him, and then CP3 will be broken and that team is done in 2024. Ayton will be known as the player picked above Luka and you look back at and say well he averaged 13 and 8 for his career, so he wasn't a complete bust, but given that he was picked over Luka Legend we still put him on the list of all-time greatest busts.

patrick beverley said as much the other day when he used DeAndre Jordan as an example of a player that CP3 made look better than he actually was.

[T Park]

A dinosaur player in a league, especially the west, that is getting smaller. No thanks.

[cd98]

wat ? He stayed up late playing video games one night? Thats the knock

Yes, oddly. He stayed up and didn't sleep and then had a playoff game the next day and it messes with his play. I mean, it's not the worst infraction by an NBA player, Stephen Jackson used to play stoned, but when you are on a team that can realistically contend for a le, you have to be mature in decisionmaking to ensure you are at your optimal. Apparently they got mad at his addiction to gaming and he didn't take that too well.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/la...-off-the-court

[Mr. Body]

Michael Jordan used to stay up all night gambling. His vaunted flu game he was just hungover.

[cd98]

Michael Jordan used to stay up all night gambling. His vaunted flu game he was just hungover.

Well that is likely true, but when Ayton plays like MJ, then he can game all night.

[KingKev]

Michael Jordan used to stay up all night gambling. His vaunted flu game he was just hungover.

He dropped like 40 that game… there is an old saying in my industry out like boys, in like men!

Ayton didn’t perform though

[Chomag]

The homers here just honestly cracks me up sometimes. They act like any player outside the Spurs is a scrub. Well fact is most the Spurs current roster are scrubs. Well ok we have 1 borderline all-star that took years of development I might add and maybe 1 or 2 that have the potential to be a borderline Allstar. Spurs do have to take a swing or two for the fences if the want to have a chance for a star level player and we all know it could take a decade through drafting to find a a level talent.

I ask yall what do yall want to do with Murray's timeline then, do you want to to bring in all level talent to play with him or try to develop talent hoping they turn out to be elite with will most likely take 3-4 more years of development if it all goes well.

How long do yall think Murray will give the Spurs FO a chance to get elite talent to compete with him before he thinks it might be time for him to look towards other opportunities?

We don't currently have Drob or a Duncan to make players want to come in and stay here. Of course this all might be moot and Ayton might not want nothing to do with the Spurs but to say the Spurs shouldn't be showing any interest is stupid if you ask me.

SAN ANTONIO is not a top free agent destination so to be picky and choosy in the market is pretty baffling to me.The Spurs have allot of capspace this off-season that they will not have for the following season.

[KingKev]

The homers here just honestly cracks me up sometimes. They act like any player outside the Spurs is a scrub. Well fact is most the Spurs current roster are scrubs. Well ok we have 1 borderline all-star that took years of development I might add and maybe 1 or 2 that have the potential to be a borderline Allstar. Spurs do have to take a swing or two for the fences if the want to have a chance for a star level player and we all know it could take a decade through drafting to find a a level talent.

I ask yall what do yall want to do with Murray's timeline then, do you want to to bring in all level talent to play with him or try to develop talent hoping they turn out to be elite with will most likely take 3-4 more years of development if it all goes well.

How long do yall think Murray will give the Spurs FO a chance to get elite talent to compete with him before he thinks it might be time for him to look towards other opportunities?

We don't currently have Drob or a Duncan to make players want to come in and stay here. Of course this all might be moot and Ayton might not want nothing to do with the Spurs but to say the Spurs shouldn't be showing any interest is stupid if you ask me.

SAN ANTONIO is not a top free agent destination so to be picky and choosy in the market is pretty baffling to me.The Spurs have allot of capspace this off-season that they will not have for the following season.

So how does Ayton change this? I don’t even disagree with your assessment of our talent but Ayton isn’t elite talent what so ever. He, Keldon, DJ, Jak are slightly abive average players. He makes sense at his max for some teams. For us he is going to cost young assets to procure plus his max. HARD PASS