Ultimately, the Dejounte Murray Trade was a Deal the Spurs Had to Accept

[RC_Drunkford]

Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

cause Pop got his record

[Mr. Body]

There are two fallacies in your argument here...1) You point out all those 'what if's' but don't point out the 'what if's' in the other direction...what if DJ gets hurt? What if we can't find an allstar to pair with him? What if he regressed this year? (All are just as likely as the ones you pointed out) and 2) you keep declaring that we got mediocre picks...and that's flat out untrue... While the likelihood is that they will be late lottery picks in 25 26 and 27 they could be worse but being unprotected makes them very valuable as currency in future trades...we've heard for a week how we'd never get even 1 unprotected pick in a dj deal and yet we got 2 and an unprotected swap....thats quite the haul in today's market....and before you jump in and say...we'll never trade those Atlanta picks we'll wait and use them.... I'll point out that if one of our guys currently on the roster flashes all star type growth this year or next...and we add an all star talent in this draft with our own top 6 pick we could very well cash in that currency on a real current all star in 2 years....

The bottom line is that no matter how much whining people do here to justify their personal fan boy motives we are much closer to competing for a championship today than we were yesterday. There was no path to that while DJ was still here...now we have a shot at it with more work left to do...

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

[DPG21920]

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

I think fans like to stick to pla udes like “mentorship” and “winning environment” because it sounds good vs it being measurable. Like with Mills and everyone talking about how valuable culture is. He left and SA won more games.

I dont believe, and SA does not either, that winning 33 games vs 22 games makes any difference. Do they want to be in that position? No, of course not. But it is what it is and the culture and winning environment stuff matters but only when you have a team in place for it to matter if that makes sense?

[Mr. Body]

You may not like it, but that is the answer I gave you. Nothing, even the externalities you mentioned, superseded the importance of getting what SA wanted in a Murray deal. That was the singular most important thing, they got what they demanded which they didnt think they would and not taking that type of deal now put everything else at risk.

Obviously those considerations didn't superseded my listed externalities: they made the trade. That happened. Clearly the pretend baubles Wright gets to play with in future drafts was more important than a nurturing environment with winning on the mind. Your argument here is: "thing happened because thing happened." I'm saying that they may have blown an entire team environment and team and player chemistry because they like to play draft.

[mo7888]

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

We all know you don't find it convincing...that's crystal clear... but your argument isn't convincing or logical.... it seems emotionally rooted to me (and I'm not saying that as a criticism or labeling it as a bad thing) emotion generates fan interest in teams... I get that in the short term that we are setting that back a bit but even that will come back in balance the closer we get to the next draft... I look forward to you getting back on board then and providing some of the interesting and logical takes you present on here...

[DPG21920]

Obviously those considerations didn't superseded my listed externalities: they made the trade. That happened. Clearly the pretend baubles Wright gets to play with in future drafts was more important than a nurturing environment with winning on the mind. Your argument here is: "thing happened because thing happened." I'm saying that they may have blown an entire team environment and team and player chemistry because they like to play draft.

I mean, SA clearly does not like to play draft hence the DeRozan deal, holding onto LMA and Mills and Rudy etc…

They were losing. You can call 34 wins nurturing. Sure, its better than 20 wins, but its still not a winning environment is what I am saying. It’s losing.

[SpurSpike]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

[Mugen]

cause Pop got his record

This. All of a sudden he loves coaching the young guys, wonder what changed

[Mr. Body]

We all know you don't find it convincing...that's crystal clear... but your argument isn't convincing or logical.... it seems emotionally rooted to me (and I'm not saying that as a criticism or labeling it as a bad thing) emotion generates fan interest in teams... I get that in the short term that we are setting that back a bit but even that will come back in balance the closer we get to the next draft... I look forward to you getting back on board then and providing some of the interesting and logical takes you present on here...

Again, here's your video game stuff. You're treating existing players like action figures. I don't really understand why people don't think there's an impact on the other players, the team culture, and that this will matter.

Is it because no one has ever played team basketball before? Is it because you've only played Xbox? Because these dreams and prayers are ignoring a tremendous amount of blowback that is already happening. Maybe, and hopefully, they will be soft blowback, but I guarantee you every member of this basketball team, including the rookies, are now questioning their stance regarding their future with this team, and they weren't doing that a week ago.

I've had the fortune to play and be in team environments, know long-term effects, and have actually paid attention to team psychology. It matters. I don't expect a lot of casual fans to really know or understand - of course not - but if you have any sense of how humans and organizations actually work, then you need to be aware of these issues.

[Mr. Body]

Anyway, I've said my piece.

Timvp didn't actually answer the question posed by his le: Why was this a deal they HAD to accept? Why this timing? Not answered or even asked.

Many people are intoxicated by three okay-ish draft picks and are ignoring a host of issues that will really begin to matter.

[rjv]

the spurs can play with all the pride they want this season but the current roster-prior to whatever FAs they may add-is not going to win a lot of games no matter how compe ive they are. i don't even know if the spurs are any better than OKC or the kings at this point. a bottom five finish is not out of the question.

[cd98]

I think we all agree that if we take our Spurs blinders off, DJM was a nice player, but he's not a two hundred million dollar player. Well, I don't think he will produce like one on a championship team, but he clearly is a $200 million dollar player because someone will pay him that much. I like him and he was great for the Spurs and I hope he gets paid and I hope he is successful, but if the Spurs kept him and paid him $200 million, what else do they got that is going to make us anything more than a play in team or the 5-8 slot in the playoffs?

[mo7888]

Again, here's your video game stuff. You're treating existing players like action figures. I don't really understand why people don't think there's an impact on the other players, the team culture, and that this will matter.

Is it because no one has ever played team basketball before? Is it because you've only played Xbox? Because these dreams and prayers are ignoring a tremendous amount of blowback that is already happening. Maybe, and hopefully, they will be soft blowback, but I guarantee you every member of this basketball team, including the rookies, are now questioning their stance regarding their future with this team, and they weren't doing that a week ago.

I've had the fortune to play and be in team environments, know long-term effects, and have actually paid attention to team psychology. It matters. I don't expect a lot of casual fans to really know or understand - of course not - but if you have any sense of how humans and organizations actually work, then you need to be aware of these issues.

I don't play video games...it's not my bag... and no player on the team is questioning their stance regarding the future because of this deal. Every player has been educated by their representatives that this is a business and that they shouldn't be to emotionally attached to any team. In addition, every player just just got more opportunities on court to shine and they're happy about that no matter the posture they take in social media. Lastly, every player just saw a guy that developed into a player that going to get max money on their next deal...you can bet your sweet ass that every single one of them would be thrilled to be in a position to be developed to the point that they can get max money...and it won't hurt their feelings at all if they get it here or elsewhere...the only ones with their feelings hurt here are fans that don't fully grasp what's happening.

[Uriel]

I'm not entirely sure trading Murray away ensures the Spurs don't compete for the play-in tournament this year. Unless we also trade away Poeltl, it's possible that any wins lost by losing Murray would be offset by internal development from the rest of the team.

[Chinook]

There's no reason to assume the Spurs did anything other than do right by Murray. They were probably keen to take this deal because they knew it's where DJM wanted to go, and the window to make that happen was closing. Murray is not known for hiding his emotions, so the positive words and lack of shade are telling.

Also, Murray might've been in line for a DPE contract with another ASG appearance. Roughly speaking, that's $260M/5. The gap between that and what I think most fans would consider the max reasonable contract is pretty huge. DPE players arr very rarely worth their deals. Many of the worst contracts in the league were signed under that provision. Now that he's been traded, the DPE is no longer an option for him, which should narrow the negotiation window for ATL considerably.

I like OO, but to put it into perspective, he's like the size of early Thad Young. I've always been a huge Thad fan and was elated when he joined the Spurs, but his career has always been hampered by his lack of size and/or shooting. OO is going to have to navigate those same waters. I like him too and wanted him, but I could see the Spurs not being as enamored given they have plenty of time to find their future center and guys who can fill those minutes in the time being.

[MannyIsGod]

Lol yeah no one here has ever played basketball or any other team sports. Everyone on here just plays NBA 2k. I just wish I understood how missing the playoffs for several years in a row is a winning environment, tbh.

I'll say this. If they hold onto Jakob and Richardson or bring in free agents that aren't young prove it players then everyone should be critical af about this move. But I'd they're going to tank then so be it.

[baseline bum]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

Or if they didn't want to pay him, which makes more sense.

[offset formation]

Spoiler: He's not.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

[offset formation]

Or if they didn't want to pay him, which makes more sense.

If they weren't going to trade DJ, PATFO isn't saying Primo is the PG of the future, and the Spurs don't draft a second ball heavy guard with their last FRP.

[offset formation]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

He appears to be the third coming, fourth if you count Durant

[baseline bum]

Also, Murray might've been in line for a DPE contract with another ASG appearance. Roughly speaking, that's $260M/5. The gap between that and what I think most fans would consider the max reasonable contract is pretty huge. DPE players arr very rarely worth their deals. Many of the worst contracts in the league were signed under that provision. Now that he's been traded, the DPE is no longer an option for him, which should narrow the negotiation window for ATL considerably.

If the Spurs thought Murray and Klutch would be DPE or bust with the Spurs then moving him was the right move. Not convinced they'd be demanding that though, would have been a completely unrealistic demand and would have been akin to Murray being unhappy here but not wanting to say so.

[Mugen]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

Too early to call that tbh. We'll know more after free agency IMO.

[KingKev]

Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.

Article just timvp patting himself on the back in a Coach Pop manner.

Sniffers gon’ sniff

[MultiTroll]

Anyway, I've said my piece.

Timvp didn't actually answer the question posed by his le: Why was this a deal they HAD to accept? Why this timing? Not answered or even asked.

Many people are intoxicated by three okay-ish draft picks and are ignoring a host of issues that will really begin to matter.

No better offers were going to come?

I don't believe that for a second.

OP?