Maybe I’m in minority but I’d hate to see Poeltl traded
Jakob Poeltl, Keldon Johnson a 1st and 2 seconds ain't that bad.
After all, what value does Kawhi have now?
I live in LA and Kawhi is probably the second most unpopular NBA player here (behind only Russell Westbrook). He'd be even more unpopular if anyone gave a damn about the Clippers.
Kawhi is where he wants to be and he still doesn't play. Even assuming he wanted to stay in SA he'd be a pretty dubious asset at this point.
if Utah got 4 first rounders and 1 swap for Gobert, we should at least get 2 firsts and a swap. I also wouldn't have a problem with Jakob staying if we can resign him. Although it would help the tank to trade him
I'd definitely take Keldon, Jakob, and Chicago's 2025 first over a broken down Mute Cancer today.
People still don't understand the Spurs actually did well on that trade.
I don't think two firsts is realistic, but I could see a first and a prospect plus filler. Someone on RGM mentioned Poeltl for Haynes, Lewis and a first from LAL. I've never really cared for Hayes, but I've liked Lewis for similar reasons as I like Wesley, and it's a position of need. If the pick were something like that Laker pick in 2024 or ideally the NOP/LAL pick for this year unprotected, that would be a good haul.
NOP has an option on LA's 2024 pick though. They can choose to take either their 2024 or 2025 first, so LA can't trade either pick.
Definitely. That trade is looking better by the day. He's only played 170 games in the past 5 years, barely over 2 seasons' worth. He can't get healthy, he can't stay healthy, and it's not like his degenerative quad issue isn't getting better with age. Toronto got a le out of it, I'm fine with that. He's eating $40 million a year with the Clippers, and one of those years he never stepped foot on the floor, which I'm also fine with. At least it's not us paying for Brandon Roy 2.0
I think it's more like the Raptors haul versus, Bridges, Covington or the what ended up being multiple picks after everything was said and done from LAC
Harris and 11 was that trade.
11 became SGA
Harris was traded for Shamet, Chandler, Muscala and firsts that became Saddiq Bey, Mfiondu Kabengele and Tre Mann, thought it's sort of complicated because LAC dumped the pick originally when it wasn't differentiated to get Kabengele in 2019. Then they reacquired the pick for Landry Shamet in 2020 before sending that pick to Detroit. So Shamet isn't "on top of" those draft picks, but was basically allowed LAC to get the 19th pick twice after they burned in on a center they'd dump a couple of years later.
Even ignoring the possibility of getting 12 with 11, you can see the Spurs would've had chances to do some damage with those picks. You can fanfic your way to something like Maxey, SGA, Keldon, Bey, Kai Jones and seconds without many gymnastics. That ignores the win-now value DeRozan gave the team and the follow-up trades for DeRozan the Spurs rebuffed at the time. There really were better potential deals, especially if only looking at it from the lens of the best players in 2022. That's covered-as- ground, and I wouldn't change it now. But having this as Kawhi vs Johnson to measure the value of the return isn't fair.
Was talking about a trade with NOP, hence mentioning Jaxon Hayes and Kira Lewis.
To be clear, I don't think it's going to be a slam dunk for Buzbee. The Spurs have multiple people on the payroll whose job duty it is to make sure something like this doesn't spiral out of control. , Brian Wright himself is uniquely qualified to deal with this situation. I won't get into details but his education and background should almost guarantee he knew what protocols to follow if there were Primo accusations. Of course, there's a chance that the Spurs fell so in love with Primo's potential that they went out of their way to protect him ... but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Primo was never a high-level basketball prospect based on physical tools or current skills. The thought process behind Primo as the potential franchise player was that his extreme high character, work ethic and leadership could allow him to maximize his mediocre physical abilities. Once the high character egg was broken, all the allure of Primo the potential franchise player disappears.
An attorney friend I talked to today is confident the Spurs are in the clear. His viewpoint is basically that even in a scenario where the Spurs had reports that Joshua was allegedly showing off his primo to unsuspecting women, there's no way they are going to be liable for having him talk to the team psychologist. That's where you'd send a player who is potentially have that sort of mental breakdown. For the psychologist to have a claim, it'd take a unique cir stance where the Spurs knew about the allegations but didn't clue her in -- but that would be highly unusual. He also said that Primo's actions are a classic sign of schizophrenia, which for males typically pops up right around the ages of 19 or 20. So if Primo was having schizophrenia-related episodes, they probably came out of nowhere and it'd be close to impossible for the Spurs to be liable. (Of course, I'm not a lawyer or a mental health expert so perhaps some of this is off-base and I'm obviously not condoning anything Primo did or minimizing what the psychologist went through.)
I guess we'll find out on Thursday.
Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.
Last edited by baseline bum; 11-01-2022 at 06:47 PM.
It's unclear if the 3 teams supposedly interested last season still are or who is outside of them (especially with so many contenders or aspiring ones out picks), but under no cir stances should Poeltl be retained.
Doing so would defeat the primary purpose of trading Murray.
The Hornets should tank, but let's say they don't either organically or otherwise and are still interested (no sure thing with Richards being a revelation and Williams, though underwhelming early, still fresh), I'd rather try to get them to lower the protection on the '23 1st to 7ish, take Plumlee and Jones over that.
Not that the Pelicans would be interested anyway, with 3 limited shooting quality bigs already in tow (Williamson, Valanciunas, Nance Jr.).
I do think treatment for Schizophrenia has progressed over the years. It's possible you know people with it who are able to still live their lives. I've talked to some people who have been diagnosed, and while they were sort of odd, I have a feeling that their oddness is why they told me rather than it being a rule for their condition. If that's what's going on with Primo, it's possible he can and might already be getting treatment for it. That could be why the psychologist is concerned about HIPAA violations. She may know WHY he did it, or why it's hard for him to control his behavior all of the time, which could explain why she didn't immediately escalate that. And maybe the issues stopped until the hotel thing, which made the Spurs cut him to force him to get treatment. I don't love that idea. I think if they were really concerned with his health and felt that he could be rehabilitated, they might've sat him for the year. It may seem like they need the roster spot, but they didn't. That lends credibility to the idea that the lawsuit motivated the response.
Assuming Primo really has been diagnosed with a condition the psychologist can reveal, it'd be interesting to see how the approach these proceedings. , if they can't find a second woman willing to come forward, the case might end up being, "This player suffering from a mental illness flashed his doctor, and she is blaming the team for it." Or maybe it'll be, "The team knew this mentally unhinged guy was running around posing a risk to others and covered it up."
Last edited by Chinook; 11-01-2022 at 07:15 PM.
The Spurs honestly don't need to waste more roster spots on front-court players. They have so many folks who deserve minutes over Jones, though obviously if they can get a top-10 pick out of this, it's a compe ive offer. I'm not sure if it beats a double pick, especially if the Hornets win more games after this deal.
The Pelicans traded a first for Adams and then another first to dump him. I don't think they know what kind of center they want. I do think they're an odd choice, but it wasn't a Spurs fan who suggested that idea. Feels more like Richardson would be the guy NOP would want.
It doesn't take schizophrenia to be a pervert. But this is truly the last case I'd want to see happen, it'd be a tragedy to see such a young and otherwise normal kid fall into such dark path that's completely out of his control. Still, that's an extremely serious condition and I'd tend to think both the Spurs and the psychologist would be acting very differently were that the case.
To be fair, they were acting differently before this lawyer got involved...
Don't know Primo well, but I doubt the schizophrenia angle.
While schizophrenia is frequently diagnosed at that age range there are almost always signs beforehand often even as children. . People tend to focus on the delusions and hallucinations, but there are disorganized behavior, social withdrawal.
While there are exceptions, Hard to think he'd gotten this far.
Now bipolar...
Yeah, hearing voices is what I thought of as schizophrenia. But Google says that a first sign of schizophrenia is a person doing outlandish behavior that is obviously socially unacceptable -- so flashing your psychologist to torpedo your multimillion dollar career probably falls in that category. I don't know, tbh.
Whatever happens, this is looking like it'll be a mess. If Primo had some sort of psychotic break from reality, it'd be difficult not to feel at least a little sorry for him. By all accounts I've heard, at some point in time, he was an awesome kid. Then again, if he's just a s bag who let the money go to his head, then I hope he gets what he deserves.
A recap of the original trade and follow ups:
- Traded Kawhi Leonard + Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan + Jakob Poeltl + Toronto's 2019 1st round pick.
- Drafted Keldon Johnson using Toronto's 2019 1st (#29)
- Got Detroit's 2022 1st by taking in Hutchinson
- Traded DDR for Thaddeus Young + Al Farouq Aminu + Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8) + Lakers 2022 2nd + Chicago's 2025 2nd
- Traded Thaddeus Young + Eubanks + Detroit's 2022 2nd for Toronto's 2022 1st + Goran Dragic
- Drafted Branham using Toronto's 2022 1st (#20)
- Traded Lakers' 2022 2nd for Lakers' 2024 2nd (by drafting Kennedy Chandler and trading his rights to Memphis)
So to this date the balance is something like this:
COSTS:
- One year's worth of Kawhi Leonard (was gone anyway)
- Danny Green (31 y.o.)
- Drew Eubanks (
)
- took in the expiring contracts of Hutchinson, Aminu, Young (half a season) & Dragic (half a season)
BENEFITS:
- 3 seasons of DDR (hey... it's technically accurate...)
- Jakob Poeltl (4 seasons + whatever we can get for him)
- Keldon Johnson (Toronto's 2019 1st)
- Malaki Branham (Toronto's 2022 1st)
- Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8)
- Lakers' 2024 2nd
- Chicago's 2025 2nd
Probably the Spurs could have gotten a better deal for Kawhi in the first place, but in time and taking in consideration subsequent moves, the return for what would have been one season of a disgruntled and often injured Leonard doesn't seem too bad, does it?
Always a bad sign.
Everything is a double-edged sword in these matters. The Spurs put this in a professional's hands early. That's great except that . . . does that mean they must have known?
Doing what seems like the right thing can, ironically, hurt you in the worst way. Being fat, dumb and happy can end up helping. It's an inexact science, this human stuff.
Usually, it comes down to who we like. Does the NBA like the Spurs?
Or maybe the league would look more kindly if it was the Celtics?
There's no principle you can rely on in any of this. None at all.
There is a version where the psychologist is a part of the coverup and also a victim. It was her job to help with his mental health (granted, not completely altruistically but to help him be a better basketball player) and she is the first to know of his issues but for job security and pressure from above didn’t alert anyone. I mean, was she negligent for not reporting a criminal offense that he revealed? It’s tricky. Not saying this is my preferred interpretation but she easily could be one of the first to know. And because she’s not really there to heal him (my opinion), it’s a complicated conflict of interests.
Not an expert in schizophrenia, but believe it can take different forms. Once had dealt with ex-harvard professor who had schizophrenia. Checked themselves into a pysch hospital.
what press conference ??
The Shrink and her lawyer are doing a presser on Thursday.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
