Don't get caught up in the Hinkie mythology.
He drafted multiple busts before drafting Embiid, and Joel was the third member of a three-player draft. There's no way of knowing if Hinkie would've taken him first overall or if he would've taken Jabari or Wiggins instead. Hinkie's biggest trade win was getting the SAC pick and swap. The swap apparently didn't end up mattering (I could've sworn that it had), so the Sixers took Simmons. I don't think that would've changed under Hinkie, as he was one of seemed to firmly believe shooting could be taught given their other picks. In the Fultz draft, Boston specifically agreed to the trade because the Sixers told them they weren't going to draft Tatum. Philly was basically going to end up with Fulz no matter what.
Hinkie sucked at drafting and building a team. He was great at making trades, though he burned a lot of good will in how he did it. The two most successful Philly draft picks are both deeply flawed players. At best, Hinkie might've tricked some team into giving good value for them. But I don't think he'd've been able to pivot the team into a winner.
Him being great at trades and value is the point. Spurs need more of that and with their drafting and abilities it’s a nice thing to have. Spurs are doing much better in trades. I understand not needing to with Tim/TP/Manu so never bothered me much.
But when it became clear we were treadmill? Became way more of a focus to me.
It's not the point. It's one thing a GM can do, and Hinkie was good at "winning" trades but never showed he knew how to use them to build a team. No one cares about value in and of itself. It's supposed to be a means to and end, and Hinkie not knowing how to get to that end matters way more than how much fuel he got from tossing his furniture into the blaze. Many other front offices have shown much more a en for building teams than his despite not getting as much raw value in exchange.
There are many different kinds of treadmills, or maybe treadmills can go at many different speeds. The Spurs were a treadmill them for two decades with Tim. The Pistons have been a treadmill team for a few years now. Just because you suck doesn't mean you're rising. Assets expire. There's a very real limit to how many you can ac ulate. So you can churn your roster forever. If you don't hit, the roster ends up rotting. The Spurs aren't really doing much better or worse in trades. The same guy who did the Murray trade did the Leonard deal. It's that they were able to trade Murray after a good year, whereas they only knew they couldn't keep Kawhi after his worst year of his career. Before you say the Spurs should've recognized their situation and tanked, they got a lot of value out of not doing that (Murray, DeRozan and Poeltl are all examples of that) and there's been, what, like one superstar (two if you count Zion) drafted since the Kawhi trade. The Kings should've traded the second-overall pick for Leonard if offered. That legit would've worked out better for both teams. But assuming Kawhi couldn't bring that back, there's not really a realistic sequence of trades that would've netted the Spurs a top-two pick in 2019. For where the team was and what folks were offering, the trade direction was fine.I understand not needing to with Tim/TP/Manu so never bothered me much.
But when it became clear we were treadmill?
Does tonight count? Asking for a friend? 🙈
I have no issue and never really have with Spurs not tanking fast enough. You know this. I only wanted youth playing more because I legit that the youth WERE BETTER lol.
Im talking only now that they have made the decision to tank/rebuild. Not bemoaning the past or how long it took.
Based Hinkie also brought in Covington on a good 5 year deal
not sayin he was a perfect gm but he was a visionary
And all I’ve said and what shapes some of my views is be a hawk like him and always seek out value at every opportunity. Always have that in mind and execute on trades often and high level.
That’s a good thing - just dont suck at drafting like him. Why cant we have both? SA has done pretty damn good at drafting and pretty good finally now that they have picked a direction to tank/rebuild on some trades. Keep it up - be creative and be absolutely relentless in accruing value to give your FO thats great at drafting the best shot
I think Scoot is a lock to leave the team once he hits free agency
after 8 seasons?
Lol did you see how much of a chucker he was?
We’ve seen that it doesn’t take 8 seasons if a player is sufficiently motivated to be elsewhere, and willing to act like a complete prick.
If he’s already giving indications of not wanting to be here, skipping gleague games against Austin, you trade back if you draw #2 overall. He’s a good enough prospect, but not generational like Wemby. It seems that every other draft, there’s a guard of this archetype available.
Context is King…… you know what I mean? At this very moment is our best ball handler and passer; he will be better for us once he learns the system. Your player assessments are homie! Lol. I may need to start keeping score….lol
Scoot is the pick if we get #2 barring something crazy but my affinity for The Black Kid from Arkansas is growing
You can trade back from #2, gaining additional assets.
I've got Scoot #2 as well like everyone else, bit if he's not wanting to be here I'd look at trading back....especially with Orlando..
There is zero basis for Scoot not wanting to be here.
And if your compatriot hints in an interview or private conversation that he does not want to play for the Spurs, do we also need a trade back?
It's being blown out of proportion. 1) I wouldn't take for granted that is true. The FO will definitely know it if this is the case. 2) Even if he's not enthusiastic about playing in San Antonio, if he's their top prospect by far I wouldn't pass on him. Players can change their mind, I remember Steph Curry telling GSW he didn't want to be picked by them because his preferred destination was NY, yet now he's the face of the franchise. It can grow over time. 3) Even if it doesn't grow over time, unless he's a complete jackass you're probably better served drafting him, building up his value for a couple of seasons, and THEN trading him for 4 unprotected picks + good youngsters, as it's the price for an all star.
So IMO unless there's concrete and irrefutable evidence he'll make life miserable for everyone in SA, I'd still take him even if he "hints" at not wanting to play for the Spurs.
We've also seen the teams hold leverage and getting a king's ransom out of (even disgruntled) top talent. So unless you're sure he'll be a cancer in the locker room, it's not worth passing on a better talent just because he might not remain with the team in 8 years. Plenty of time to change his mind, or flip him for a gold mine.
I agree.
lol there has got to be a better way to phrase that reference to Anthony Black
Anyone know the deadline for Grahams 24-25 salary to guarantee the full 12.6mm? and what is the obligation before then, like 2.9mm?
Yeah, $2.85 million guaranteed. Fully guaranteed $12.65 million if not released by July 1, 2024.
July 1, 2024 I believe. He will be easily movable at next year’s deadline.
Lol you are 100% correct
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