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Can we just get a thread on another candidate? This one's stale.
I’m sorry I offended your sensibilities. I’m confident that Cason Wallace could be a better NBA player than Scoot. Is saying it that way less hurtful to you?
Can we just get a thread on another candidate? This one's stale.
Amen and Amir Thompson, Miller, or Bilal Coulibaly are likely to have better careers IMHO. Amen is intriguing because I think he's a taller better finishing version of Scoot.
Last edited by offset formation; 05-03-2023 at 09:37 PM.
Fair enough. I suppose that was a tad unfair. I just question the narrative that's been around for months as though it came from on high that it was Wembanyama then Scoot. I just see lots of flaws in his game. I'll concede he could develop past some or most of them. It's just not likely. And given this team's overall biggest deficit is defensively, I just can't justify taking a dude who's clearly not elite or really even average sometimes. He has periods of complete inattention defensively that remind me of Lonnie. We have no roblem scoring but this team loses games defensively. That has to change.
The Spurs finished 29th offensively and are the only team without a current or projected future offensive centerpiece.
Henderson has the physical tools to minimally be a non liability defensively, which is fine, especially in a PG and projected offensive engine.
Now tell me about the defensive side...and where they rank.
Of course we need to get better offensively, but the defensive showing over the last several years has been progressively worse, culminating in last years historic inep ude.
As far as what Scoot will bring to the table, I'm just not I'm agreement at all that he's the piece we need to turn the cornet. First he's been abysmal defensively and secondly, he's an average passer, average to above average finisher, and poor from midrange and beyond. So teams in the NBA will just play off of him and under the screen unless and until he makes them pay for it. And he's a high usage player so he HAS to score to be worthy of a spot on the floor, rather than part of a team flow.
Again, we're just gonna see this differently, and that's OK.
For those who actually like Scoot - what do you see as an upside comp? Prime Marbury? DRose? I’m just trying to understand the player.
21-61 ibelieve. It was a 35 game turnaround the highest turnaround until Duncan’s rookie season. Then the Garnett Allen Pierce Celtics.
He's a bigger framed, more athletic Tony Parker with better form and likely will become a better outside shooter than TP.
I just looked. Yeah you're correct. My bad.
To me, it’s getting to the point where it feels odd to not even consider Scoot as an option if he’s available. To flip things around, there are potentials for bust if we play it safe and get basically a role player. Specifically, if we draft Hendricks, I could see that it’s sort of being like Atlanta drafting DeAndre Hunter (a 3 and D guy) and then getting upset later when he’s not a star. The expectation is to get a star. I think it’s difficult to dissuade people from that. And if they decided to get Amen I might even like that better: develop him while we likely get another high lottery pick next year.
There's more room for error with a 6'9" guy than a 6'1" guy. Guys like Scoot have to be elite shooters AND elite finishers to be worth building around. Bigger players can have one or the other and still create mismatches.
Scoot is 6'2" While Henderson does lack height at 6-foot-2, his athleticism, strength and 6-foot-9 wingspan make up for it.
The Spurs are still going to have to add another star to the current team(top 10 league player) in the future with anyone they draft.
I really dislike the Parker comparison. Parker was ultra-fast, one of the fastest players we've seen. He also circulated the floor, probing and moving through the lane, although that's what he was coached to do.
Henderson is more explosive vertically but not nearly as fast, but then who is. Henderson is more of a pound-the-ball, assess-the-floor before making a straight drive probing for a shot or kick out kind of player. He is really built for a kid his age, or any age.
That type of player is Marbury. It's Steve Francis. He's even built closer to Steve Francis. And I don't mean that in a bad way. When those players were good, they were very good.
I'd like to see the spurs continue to: 1) add length to the roster, 2) add more players that are capable of playing off ball and with the ball in their hands 3) scorers and 4) shooters. but at some point they will need a solid big (and i'm not so sure that wemba addresses that need-he certainly won't be playing at the 5 spot).
Lets not resort to "superstar" semantics, all those raising concerns about Scoot's ceiling don't think he'll be Ja (big difference with Fox there) whether you think he's a superstar or not. If you think he'll be at that level, you take Scoot no questions asked, whether you consider Ja to be a superstar or not (I do). But Ja's ability to get to the rim and finishing is LIGHT YEARS away from Scoot, and he's not likely to ever get even close. His shooting is more likely to improve, but far from a given. All of that puts into question not his ability to be a good NBA player, but his ultimate ceiling, which is what you're looking for in a hypothetical #2 pick. As far as I'm concerned I have no problem taking Scoot there, I could see him becoming a De'Aaron Fox type player (maybe), but I've come down from regarding him as a franchise caliber PG prospect in the Derrick Rose, Westbrook, Wall tier. That's all.
Last edited by Ariel; 05-04-2023 at 11:02 AM.
I think Henderson's speed is comparable to Tony's. I do agree that Henderson is more of a pound the air out of the ball player right now, but I dont think that will be his game in our system. I think he'll be much closer to Parker style-wise here. He'll use his speed off the ball on cuts to the basket and Sochan is the most likely facilitator on those plays. Of course, all this is dependent on how coachable Scoot is. I lean towards him being coachable because of our perceived interest. I think that's something we value greatly and if he doesn't possess that he won't be the pick..
Yeah, how coachable a player projects to be is likely a huge factor in who they choose out of these top picks, which sort of deflates 99% of all of our bloviating here, but, hey, gotta talk about something.
This isn't semantics. It's basically the opposite. I already said I basically have no opinion on Scoot in terms of how he should rate. I don't care what you call superstar. My point is that talent trumps fit, even talent with at ude or whatever. If you don't think Scoot has that talent, fair enough. But if you think he does but feel like his flaws somehow make him a worse pick than a guy you expect to be a role-player, that's where I disagree.
I was going to say Baron Davis, other than the outside shot. Davis also wasn't a plus plus athlete but he had strength.
steve francis is an interesting comp tbh
Steve Francis was a shorter, no D version of DeJounte. He played 9 seasons, and totaled 54.1 WS. Not very interesting.
Agree. Creating mismatches is the key, especially if we're talking about a potential top-5 opportunity.
A 6' 3" guard "known for his crossover dribble, driving ability, and flashy dunks."
So far, I think we'd all agree that's a fairly accurate description of Scoot (except Scoot is listed as 6' 2"). Thing is, that's the Wiki career description for Steve Francis. Credit to Mr. Body for calling it first.
Francis was a super-flashy Rookie of the Year, three-time All-Star, who played in a career total of five playoff games, winning only one, before fizzling out with the Beijing Ducks. Fun to watch, but never feared, and in the end, forgettable. On top of that -- unlike Francis' era -- the future of the league's roster designs right now is gonna be dominated by players who are much taller than 6' 2", who can shoot threes and rotate across all five positions on defense (think Denver and the kind of design OKC is building). That's the kind of roster designs that will fight for les.
Scoot is too short to compete against those designs on defense. A 6' 9" wingspan isn't gonna save him, attached to a 6' 2" body. There's nowhere to hide him against starting rosters where offenses are initiated by guys who are 6' 9" and taller, and there will be more and more of those roster designs, coming soon. I can see why people would be hyped about Scoot, if they just want a flashy player who *maybe* snags an individual honor here or there. But if the goal is to win championships in the next 5-7 years -- no.
we're talking about stylistic comps, not career outcomes. im just trying to envision how he would look on an nba floor. comps are good for that purpose.
but if you want to get into career outcomes, you could do worse
his career WS/48 was higher than Ja Morant's as of now, higher than Jrue Holiday, and much higher than murray, if you want to prod through advanced stats (murray has only had one season with a better ws/48 than francis' career average)
Last edited by spurraider21; 05-04-2023 at 04:23 PM.
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