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Mr. rascal’s point was that it doesn’t make sense to bring in a “core” guy like Chris Paul as a key cog when he might only be around for a year.
I agree, the team needs more veteran presence. Not sure how this will happen.
I also think my push for a good young PG prospect may be premature. There are a few reasons for my interest, not all of them good:
- The assets we have to take a swing at a prospect may be harder to come by in a few years
- There are a few good defensive PGs or semi-PGs possibly available in this draft
- I want to reiterate that my interest here is that these guys are specifically good at defense as well as other things, possibly a rare mix
- This draft seems unusual in that teams may be slugging it out for IMO overrated athletes who are pushing these PG prospects down
- If we can get a key position on board, why not? Team culture seems fantastic right now
- Swinging now does not preclude swinging later, but only swinging later means we didn't swing now
- We have to use our draft capital somehow. We will likely have six draft picks next year, for example
So, my main reasons are that PG is what's going to tie the room together. I like Jones a lot, not sure about fulltime, career starter. Wesley is a good defender, but strong doubts about his longterm viability esp. as a starter. Branham is poor defensively and I don't think he's really the passer or vision-guy you need, no offense to him.
If the situation was different, if these PGs weren't good at defense, if there wasn't a weird scrum going on in the 2-7 picks, and then good prospects after, then we have a different situation. It's the somewhat rare situation that I'm tapping into. I don't want all our PG options next year or 2025 or 2026 to be awful defensive guys.
That said, I think Anthony Black will be out of range. I have concerns about his shooting - that flatfooted, slowass is getting to me - and so the ledger of busting the piggy bank of picks to move up to get him I don't think will be worth it.
And I think Kobe Bufkin will now fall into the late lottery and I think he'll be too expensive to get. Again, the ledger balance between potential and cost may not be there.
Mr. rascal’s point was that it doesn’t make sense to bring in a “core” guy like Chris Paul as a key cog when he might only be around for a year.
The question of "core" is what comes up now that we have Wemby on the way.
A core is not 5+ players. The NBA doesn't really let you do that nowadays.
A core is 3-4 guys that you try to keep together.
We have our potential superstar with Wemby.
Now the question is, what is the best way to get another 2 or 3 guys to form the core?
Do we already have one or two of those guys on the roster and we develop them?
Sochan has that potential. Can Vassell or Keldon elevate to Manu or Parker levels?
Are we going to draft them in the future?
A patient approach lets Wemby become a star and own the culture and THEN you bring in his supporting stars.
All of the biggest the Spurs have had in my lifetime came through the draft.
Will we pick them up as free agents?
The Spurs have historically picked up really good role players in free agency like Patty and Diaw and Bowen and Green and Kersey etc etc.
You can argue that some of them were part of the core for winning les, but mostly we've just gotten really good role players who were outside the core.
Our efforts to get stars have had mixed results, even when we've signed people like Aldridge or Michael Finley.
It's unclear if we can build a super team through free agency. Probably not.
A final note about age: Tim was 2 years older than Manu, and 6 years older than Parker.
And to stay on topic: Quickley seems interesting at PG
Jordan, Shaq, and Durant were 28 when they won their first rings. LeBron and Steph were 27, Olajuwan and Dirk were 31. None of them won with PGs that were around in their rookies seasons-- those facts make me a little less concerned about who the PG is next year.
That's not a good counter-argument though. The Spurs don't need a core yet. The guys who were core for Tim weren't there when he was young. Tim was significantly older than "core member" Parker, who was quite a bit older than "core member" Leonard. No one in their right mind should think the Spurs would get Paul to grow with Wemby. They don't need to look for players to do that. They need to look for players to help the team improve its long-term position, and they can do that without that player being young. , you can argue that it's a detriment to bring in a young PG who's trying to figure out how to balance scoring and passing, who's still trying to get a feel for playing the PNR, who's trying to find their voice or is working out rotations on D into a team of guys who are also trying to figure that out.
The Spurs don't need a guy who will grow into his prime when Wemby enters his. They may want a guy who's in his prime at that time (though that's not necessary, as Tim showed), but they can get that by trading for or signing a PG during that time. They don't need them now. In the same way, if the Spurs sign an old PG who retires before Wemby enters his prime, they can just acquire another. Like holy , so many people seem to think Duncan's career began in 2003. Years of the Spurs figuring out happened. They aren't going to have some ironclad plan in place to win les with Wemby. That rumor has been misconstrued. They're going to have to make many moves over years reacting to the rest of the NBA and their own team. Not only should they not worry about having their core right now, but they'd be fools if they thought they already do.
I bet they would want something like the Hornets pick + the Raptors pick.
But “rumors” suggest they see him more as a chip in a bigger deal to land an established player. Who knows.
Yeah, I think NYK are trying to land a good size fish. I'm not a big fan of Quickley in this role. I think his sense of self and role is larger than we want and I don't think he fulfills PG duties. He's more of a SG and would overlap too much with Vassell.
That said, if we want to explore that route, I can see them having some interest in Keldon.
I think this is a good way of looking at it, and I think for *now* you look at our core as Wemby, Sochan, Vassell and Keldon. If any piece of the core needs upgrading along the way, we aren't locked in by any means, either by drafting, signing or trading for someone else.
I don't want this core surrounded exclusively by a lot of young guys. Give them support to raise their floor and provide the support to help them achieve their ceiling. While I'm not really into the CP3 idea, I think that is along the right lines. A wily vet who can come in, raise the floor and provide some guidance for these kids on how to be a successful professional (which doesn't only mean championships). They aren't going to learn that from other 19-year olds.
People here are talking about defensive PGs, but Blake is actually a good defender (or has good defensive potential). I don't see any of the later PG prospects having more potential than him
It feels harder to be patient on his development with Wemby accelerating the rebuilding timeframe. You figure you need three years to know what he really is, but by then Wemby should be ready for prime time and the rest of the lineup needs to be ready to start contending.
I want to believe that Blake will develop into a good PG and he really showed some strong potential in summer league and early in the season
BUT he was so so bad after coming back from the injury. Yeesh it was terrible.
Hopefully he can regain some form and also add a floater to his game.
He really just needs a floater or tear drop or something and he'd suddenly unlock a lot of his game imo
Agree that Wemby just changed the timeline for guys to develop.
So will all the other PGs in this draft who can't shoot. You let Blake play another 2 years and see where he's at. He showed some flashes. If you want defense and elite speed you got it with him. The jump shot is what needs to come along, but his shot is not terrible that it seems you can't fix it. Hopefully he adds some stuff to his game this offseason. The things I like about him is he's super compe ive, hard worker and actually seems to have a good IQ when it comes to making the right pass
It's a great point - but also a good case for a CP/Mike Conley type PG addition while Blake continues to develop on his time frame (and with a mentor to learn from).
He never got to play enough games to get to the breakout point like Sochan and Malaki did.
His spot-up jumpshot was fine this year, although it was much better than in college, so may be an outlier. His problem is when he gets into the lane.
And just one clarification - I don't want any vet PG that we'd have to give up any considerable assets for. Like, an SRP or two at most. And definitely don't want one that hamstrings our cap flexibility in future years.
Just a short term vet who can help raise the floor of our youth and help support them in achieving their ceiling. They don't need to be part of the core in the long term.
Somewhere amongst the non Wemby perimeter players, we need a primary initiator who can force pressure on opposition defences that creates a bit of a breakdown and allow the other perimeter players to fit their role better. I don't think Vassell, Keldon or Sochan fit, or are likely to fit that role (to me, Keldon is best attacking an already bent defense, Vassell is close but doesn't quite generate enough rim pressure, and Sochan's shooting (while improving) limits the actions you can take with him on ball, and, and I think he's best as a connective passer. I'd love to be wrong.
The next several PG free agency classes are doo doo in terms of realistic options for a number 1 - teams aren't letting those guys go (Nuggets aren't letting for of Jamal Murray, Pacers aren't letting Hali go, for instance) so it'd be a trade for someone, or a draft pick.
This is probably the best PG draft class for a while, but after a point, players are unlikely to be better than Tre (who I think is worth keeping - there's value in being solid).
To me, it makes sense to look at the prices of the lottery guys (Black, Amen, Cason Wallace, Scoot) and if it's not too expensive, using some of the stockpile of less valuable picks (i.e, the non Atlanta picks) to move up. If the price is too high (e.g, to get Wallace would take the Charlotte, Chicago and Toronto picks) I'd just go with a caretaker who'll be here for a year to make sure we had 48 minutes of steady PG play as an option to ensure the development situation is good.
Garland and Mitc aren't a good fit together at the Cavs, but Garland is already on a max deal, so it's probably best to avoid him.
Tre will suffice for Wemby's rookie season, let Wesley develop and hope a star PG becomes unhappy and requests a trade.
I like Blake but is he really a pg? He doesn't seem to process the pg role, court awareness. He seems more suited for sg.
What are the odds the spurs can pay a first rounder to get Dyson Daniel’s from the pels who is getting overshadowed by some of their other young players? He offers similar benefits to black and may come cheaper
I guess I like Wesley's potential more than some here do.
He's a potent slasher and a decent shooter with a pretty solid defense already.
His finishing is still awful. Decision making another weakness at this point in time, but he's a willing passer and capable of reading the defense.
I very much see him as the new HOTS.
Finishing will be his make or break attribute.
I remember early last season, people saying that Blake has the highest upside of the three, by the fearless way he plays. But then he got hurt, and Sochan was forced to play PG, and started the shooting with one hand, which unleashed all his confidence and skills. Then Malaki was put in the fire also, and he too started getting better with more minutes.
I still think Blake will be a stud. When Ginobili was a rookie, Pop had headaches with his unorthofox style. Blake is fearless, and he believes he is the best out there. He got that dawg in him. Not like Lonnie who deferred. Blake likes to be the man and not shy about it. He could very well be who Spurs starting PG. I’m excited what he brings next season. Hopefully he has added more muscle weight to absorb contacts finishing. I’m really rooting for this kid.
I'd rank it as follows . . .
Lock: Wembanyama
Likely: Vassell, Sochan
Possibly: Johnson, Collins, Jones, Branham
Unlikely: Wesley, Bassey, Mamukelashvili, Champagnie, Barlow
No chance: McDermott, Graham, Bates-Diop, Langford, Dieng, Birch
My sense is if they target a PG/combo guard in the late lottery, it'll be Wallace.
what i like about wesley is his progression at passing, he was pretty solid imo in that category. We sure need to let him shows what he got next two years.
As he could also play sg that's not a problem if we draft or add another PG( Graham will be the odd man)
well a shooting guard needs to be able to shoot. I think Blake has the potential to be a better playmaker than Dejounte Murray
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