The Costs of Moving Up (or Into) the First Round

[Degoat]

I honestly think we roll with Tre and Graham and hope that Wesley makes a giant leap.

[stnick2261]

Derrick White. 18 months ago.

I saw an article recently that said the Spurs weren't shopping White, but Boston really wanted him and were persistently trying to trade for him. The Spurs reluctantly agreed because he'd be going to a good place. I don't think we trade Johnson unless another (good) team begs for him.

[scott]

Still don't see it next year either. How many times have the spurs traded a VERY good locker room guy on an amazing contract. Just doesn't happen. We're probably going to trade up and draft a PG and roll with it-

Last year, Derrick White?

edit: sorry, I now see that several others beat me to this very obvious punch

[Ariel]

I saw an article recently that said the Spurs weren't shopping White, but Boston really wanted him and were persistently trying to trade for him. The Spurs reluctantly agreed because he'd be going to a good place. I don't think we trade Johnson unless another (good) team begs for him.

So all it takes for the Spurs to trade a core piece is some good team asking long enough? The Spurs are an NBA team, not a charitable organization. They do consider the player's interest, but to think they'd be willing to make any move that doesn't suit their own interest is disingenuous. Derrick & Dejounte weren't enough to contend OR to land a high pick, that's why they're gone. There was no Wemby with them on board, they're just casualties of a bigger picture.

[stnick2261]

So all it takes for the Spurs to trade a core piece is some good team asking long enough? The Spurs are an NBA team, not a charitable organization. They do consider the player's interest, but to think they'd be willing to make any move that doesn't suit their own interest is disingenuous. Derrick & Dejounte weren't enough to contend OR to land a high pick, that's why they're gone. There was no Wemby with them on board, they're just casualties of a bigger picture.

Obviously Boston increased their offer until it was in the Spurs best interest. I don't see how that is hard to understand. The trade was good for all parties (Spurs, Boston and White), but it probably doesn't happen if Boston was a crappy team (unless they drastically increased the offer)

[BacktoBasics]

I honestly think we roll with Tre and Graham and hope that Wesley makes a giant leap.

This is how you GM in real life. So many here want to GM like it’s a video game. Where you’re constantly moving good assets with no regard to team dynamics.

[stnick2261]

So all it takes for the Spurs to trade a core piece is some good team asking long enough? The Spurs are an NBA team, not a charitable organization. They do consider the player's interest, but to think they'd be willing to make any move that doesn't suit their own interest is disingenuous. Derrick & Dejounte weren't enough to contend OR to land a high pick, that's why they're gone. There was no Wemby with them on board, they're just casualties of a bigger picture.

Found the quote and article

As the Feb. 9 trade deadline approached, the Celtics zeroed in on White — “Boston was desperate to find a guy like him,” one Western Conference executive said — but the Spurs, league sources said, had no interest in moving him. White had become beloved in the organization, a key part of its culture. When White held his wedding in Colorado, several members of the Spurs’ front office attended and White thanked his coaches for helping develop him. “Derrick was a guy that everybody in the league wanted,” the Western Conference executive said. “The Celtics were just persistent.” Boston came in heavy, offering Romeo Langford and Josh Richardson, a first-round pick in the 2022 draft and a 2028 first-round pick swap. It was the sort of offer the Spurs couldn’t refuse, but, sources said, the Spurs also wanted to ensure they were sending White to a good situation, to a team that was headed in the right direction.
19 hours ago – via Baxter Holmes @ ESPN

[SpursFan86]

I honestly think we roll with Tre and Graham and hope that Wesley makes a giant leap.

I’m in the same boat. As exciting as it’d be to see us trade into the early/mid 1st round I really don’t think it’s that likely.

[spurs10]

People, we need a point guard. Sochan is not going to be defending point guards.

Yeah you're right. Meant to include Tre, but agree he's be a better back-up. Yes we need a PG.

[mo7888]

Well we'll know soon if they pulled the trigger on moving up or not. If not, a 33 pick is it and that won't be for a Wemby running mate. Starting to believe we will roll with Wemby, Vassell, KJ, Sochan, and ZC.

I really don't expect any moves from our side until draft night (if we even make any trades)..

[The Truth #6]

I think it’s smart to consolidate picks to get an actual high level player. However, I’m not sure if this is the time to do it, and if we get one chance to make a big move arguably, then I’m not sure how great I feel about putting all the chips on the table before we even see Victor play. Specifically, I would imagine Keldon would be part of the trade with a draft pick or two to move up, but we aren’t sure yet if Victor plays really well next to Keldon, I mean, it’s not like Keldon is some bad egg we have to get rid of immediately. Historically, I think the spurs have been too cautious, but this is one time where I’m sort of leaning that way.

[stnick2261]

I doubt we see any Spurs trades until draft night because they won't know who is still available at which picks.

For instance, let's say Timvp's Big Board 2.0 is exactly what the Spurs have going into the draft. If Bilal Coulibaly had a guarantee of being picked 14 and the Spurs had a chance to trade up to 13... they wouldn't pick him because they'd still have 2 players higher on their draft board.

I can see them going for a trade if someone on their board drops 10 spots (or so) past what they think that player is worth. So they are trading less for a lower draft slot for a player they feel is more valuable. And they won't know that until it is actually happening.

[Ariel]

Obviously Boston increased their offer until it was in the Spurs best interest. I don't see how that is hard to understand. The trade was good for all parties (Spurs, Boston and White), but it probably doesn't happen if Boston was a crappy team (unless they drastically increased the offer)

I had already read that article. You stated that "the Spurs reluctantly agreed because he'd be going to a good place", and that's a disingenuous statement. The Spurs knew White had value, and wouldn't let him go until their price was met. Of course they were careful not to throw him into a dumpster fire, mainly because that would signal the end of team friendly deals, and that's a higher priority than a marginally better return. But your portrayal of the situation makes it seem that they agreed to a deal that they didn't like ("reluctantly") because of the "good" destination, when the truth is more in line with they'd pass on deals they like because of the destination. Self interest comes first, in spite of whatever propaganda might have you believe. And that's JUST FINE.

[Ariel]

To me, the most important is that: Spurs do not need to do a trade.

They will talk to other teams because they have some trading assets and they could use another good rookie but they won't force the issue. If teams are asking for too much to trade their pick, Spurs will just do nothing and be fine with that.

It's a nice place to be for Spurs' FO.

Partially true. The Spurs have 3 picks this year (#1, #33, #44) AND 5/6 PICKS NEXT YEAR (own 1st, Toronto 1st -prot. 6-6-6, Charlotte 1st -prot. 14-14-, own 2nd -unless 55 to 60-, Lakers 2nd, best of Chicago/NOLA 2nd). They don't have to pull the trigger now, but if they don't do something by next trade deadline (mainly with the 2nd rounders) those picks will lose value. So they can stand pat FOR NOW, but they shouldn't wait TOO LONG before making a move if they don't want to see their assets depreciate.

[stnick2261]

I had already read that article. You stated that "the Spurs reluctantly agreed because he'd be going to a good place", and that's a disingenuous statement.

I was not disingenuous at all. I was probably naive in thinking I could post a non-comprehensive argument without having to go back and clear up every minutia of thought. Obviously the Spurs don't make ANY trade that's not in their best interest.

The Spurs knew White had value, and wouldn't let him go until their price was met. Of course they were careful not to throw him into a dumpster fire, mainly because that would signal the end of team friendly deals, and that's a higher priority than a marginally better return. But your portrayal of the situation makes it seem that they agreed to a deal that they didn't like ("reluctantly") because of the "good" destination,

The original question was "How many times have the spurs traded a VERY good locker room guy on an amazing contract?" White was given as an answer.

My portrayal was that the Spurs were NOT shopping White, and having a good team make a good offer made the Spurs "reluctantly" agree to the trade (because it was in their best interest). I said that to relate that the Spurs would also not be looking to trade Johnson.

when the truth is more in line with they'd pass on deals they like because of the destination. Self interest comes first, in spite of whatever propaganda might have you believe. And that's JUST FINE.

Your portrayal here make it seem like they would be shopping him around and turning down good offers from bad destinations. In my perspective, they weren't shopping him (White then, or Johnson now).

I hope that clears up my stance (I don't like arguing online, so I'm going to stop now).

[JPB]

This is how you GM in real life. So many here want to GM like it’s a video game. Where you’re constantly moving good assets with no regard to team dynamics.

You're right about team dynamics but I honestly think a vet PG is at least discussed between spurs big heads. Are they confident Tre, Graham and Wesley is solid enough to put Wemby in the best conditions for his first year? Do they really want those 3 kids (two of them potential busts) to run a Wemby centric team? Are they OK for that team and Wemby to be badly exposed some nights because there's no one to get things straight?

Spurs are gonna have a lot of expoisition next year, let's at least put a coherent, reliable team on the court. And let's eventually not piss Wemby off for his first season. The kid hates losing.

[exstatic]

Partially true. The Spurs have 3 picks this year (#1, #33, #44) AND 5/6 PICKS NEXT YEAR (own 1st, Toronto 1st -prot. 6-6-6, Charlotte 1st -prot. 14-14-, own 2nd -unless 55 to 60-, Lakers 2nd, best of Chicago/NOLA 2nd). They don't have to pull the trigger now, but if they don't do something by next trade deadline (mainly with the 2nd rounders) those picks will lose value. So they can stand pat FOR NOW, but they shouldn't wait TOO LONG before making a move if they don't want to see their assets depreciate.

I think he's talking about not trading before the coming season. I also don't think our deadline is next NBA trade deadline. You absolutely do not trade the first rounders for anything but star power before you know where they are in the draft order. That Toronto pick could be as high as 7. The second rounders are easy to sell if we have too many picks in the draft. There are always multiple teams wanting to get back into a draft they may have traded out of a few years ago. SRPs have fetched around $3M apiece in the past.

[Mr. Body]

You're right about team dynamics but I honestly think a vet PG is at least discussed between spurs big heads. Are they confident Tre, Graham and Wesley is solid enough to put Wemby in the best conditions for his first year? Do they really want those 3 kids (two of them potential busts) to run a Wemby centric team? Are they OK for that team and Wemby to be badly exposed some nights because there's no one to get things straight?

Spurs are gonna have a lot of expoisition next year, let's at least put a coherent, reliable team on the court. And let's eventually not piss Wemby off for his first season. The kid hates losing.

I personally don't want to go into 23-24 with only Jones, Graham and Wesley as the points. I'm not even convinced Wesley is a point even if he hits. He seems more like a short SG.

That said, I do think the team will go into 23-24 with just those players, plus perhaps a guy like Amari Bailey from the second round.

I just don't see how they trade up high enough to get one of the better PGs in this draft. Can't manufacture something out of nothing without unacceptable cost.

And I don't see FAs that make sense, unless you want to open the checkbook for players like Dennis Schroeder or Seth Curry. Or, god forbid, Patrick Beverly.

[BacktoBasics]

You're right about team dynamics but I honestly think a vet PG is at least discussed between spurs big heads. Are they confident Tre, Graham and Wesley is solid enough to put Wemby in the best conditions for his first year? Do they really want those 3 kids (two of them potential busts) to run a Wemby centric team? Are they OK for that team and Wemby to be badly exposed some nights because there's no one to get things straight?

Spurs are gonna have a lot of expoisition next year, let's at least put a coherent, reliable team on the court. And let's eventually not piss Wemby off for his first season. The kid hates losing.

Fair point. My take on that is we’d benefit from a retired vet pg on the coaching staff.

[scott]

Partially true. The Spurs have 3 picks this year (#1, #33, #44) AND 5/6 PICKS NEXT YEAR (own 1st, Toronto 1st -prot. 6-6-6, Charlotte 1st -prot. 14-14-, own 2nd -unless 55 to 60-, Lakers 2nd, best of Chicago/NOLA 2nd). They don't have to pull the trigger now, but if they don't do something by next trade deadline (mainly with the 2nd rounders) those picks will lose value. So they can stand pat FOR NOW, but they shouldn't wait TOO LONG before making a move if they don't want to see their assets depreciate.

Perhaps the Spurs timing could live somewhere between the two “acquire more firepower now” and “stand pat and see what we’ve got” camps. I still contend it is perfectly reasonable to think the Spurs could contend for a playoff spot next season, and that will be something that is certainly apparent (or not) by the trade deadline. The Spurs will be in a position to have assets in the immediately upcoming draft, with more clarity on where those draft assets will land (whether TOR and CHA will even look to convey and the range where ours will likely fall). We’ll also have a much better sense of the team dynamics around Wemby and our other youngsters continuing their development path so the FO will have a much greater understanding of what further team building is needed.

While we don’t HAVE to be players at the 2024 trade deadline, that might be a spot where we decide to be. Of course, we’ll also another bite at the apple after the season before the draft. We’re in good shape here and I’m not too worried about this front. This FO has earned a lot of trust capital in my eyes, so I’m just buckling in and getting ready to enjoy the ride.

[Big Empty]

Come as Keldon about this upcoming season. He’s here at Slackers Northstar

[Big Empty]

Btw if we do trade up some create a thread the house of Boot Scootin Scoot

[talkspurs]

Meh that's how Boston won a le and made another Finals. It's how Miami won one. It's how Toronto won one. It's how LA won five. I'm not trading four picks for Rudy Gobert but if Doncic, Giannis, someone like that becomes available yeah dump your pics to get them.

So your saying you would trade a shot at several les for 1? That is what you are doing when you trade away a team for a disgruntled player. Boston I think you are talking about KG and ray allen. Neither of these players were that disgruntled from what I remember. It was the teams deciding they were not going to make it and move on. Miami I think you are talking about recently and Lebron and Bosh decided to go there as FA. Yes they were trades but they were going there even if they did not trade as they were FA. this just gave something back to the teams. Toronto yes. LA which five are you talking about?
As for the people you mention. Giannis is the type of player I would like a good player that is not spoiled. He is older then I would like and see him starting his decline already. Lots of people like Luka. I see him as childish. He has not gotten along with other stars. As much as people talk about him needing help anytime he get it they seem to have problems. This is typically blamed on the other person but how many people can he go through before people start looking at him.
The spurs Built which is why they were compe ive for so long so did warriors and Lakers. Its not about trading for the flash in the pan but building a team.

[baseline bum]

So your saying you would trade a shot at several les for 1? That is what you are doing when you trade away a team for a disgruntled player. Boston I think you are talking about KG and ray allen. Neither of these players were that disgruntled from what I remember. It was the teams deciding they were not going to make it and move on. Miami I think you are talking about recently and Lebron and Bosh decided to go there as FA. Yes they were trades but they were going there even if they did not trade as they were FA. this just gave something back to the teams. Toronto yes. LA which five are you talking about?
As for the people you mention. Giannis is the type of player I would like a good player that is not spoiled. He is older then I would like and see him starting his decline already. Lots of people like Luka. I see him as childish. He has not gotten along with other stars. As much as people talk about him needing help anytime he get it they seem to have problems. This is typically blamed on the other person but how many people can he go through before people start looking at him.
The spurs Built which is why they were compe ive for so long so did warriors and Lakers. Its not about trading for the flash in the pan but building a team.

I'd trade a shot at five years of being a contender for not being one. Wemby alone ain't winning a le any more than LeBron in Cleveland his first go around. If there is a KG in 08 level player that can be had in a year or two yeah I want him unless Atlanta has become Rockets level bad and those picks are looking like they'd be top 5.

[Mr. Body]

I'd trade a shot at five years of being a contender for not being one. Wemby alone ain't winning a le any more than LeBron in Cleveland his first go around. If there is a KG in 08 level player that can be had in a year or two yeah I want him unless Atlanta has become Rockets level bad and those picks are looking like they'd be top 5.

LeBron's whole problem in Cleveland was that they tried to contend right away and went all in. ed them up and he had to leave.