Musings from the Mainstream NBA Fan/Media Demographic

[Barfunk]

Not much of a thread starter, but couldn't help but post this. This is what Spurs fans now have to hear/read since in Pop's system, not even a SMIDGEN of stat stuffing/compiling/padding was allowed. ZERO. I'll start with this comment, as this is only an example of it. Feel free to post ones you find. If not, all good. I see these stupid comments all the time
though on social media, YouTube, etc.

"AS FAR AS BASKETBALL (OVERALL RAW TALENT) GARNETT WAS BETTER TIMMY CAPITALIZE ON A GREAT SYSTEM IF THEY WERE TO SWITCH PLACES....... THE DEBSTE WE HAVING RIGHT NOW WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST 💯"

[Barfunk]

If you switch Garnett and Duncan in 2003, the Spurs get knocked out of the first round, maybe don't even make the playoffs (not with those iterations of Parker and Ginobili).

Mainstream fans don't get that shiny stats don't always equal being a game changer and making everyone better, all while being able to lift a team that otherwise wouldn't make the playoffs to a whole championship.

If you're talking about the 2005 Spurs, then yes, that team makes the playoffs without Tim Duncan (much much better versions of Parker and Ginobili) but of course don't win the ship.

[Obstructed_View]

The KG/Timmy debate was put to rest years ago, and should be beneath discussion for any Spurs fan.

[Barfunk]

The KG/Timmy debate was put to rest years ago, and should be beneath discussion for any Spurs fan.

I hear that but it's just a tad irking. And it's not just Garnett, I see absolute gold all the time about Kobe being way better than Duncan.

[Obstructed_View]

I hear that but it's just a tad irking. And it's not just Garnett, I see absolute gold all the time about Kobe being way better than Duncan.

And the Kobe thing was put to rest years ago. A guy did a great series on Youtube called "Making the Case" where he makes an argument for eight NBA players to be the greatest of all time. Duncan is on the list of 8, Kobe and KG are not. My question is always, if you could draft one player from history at 19, who would it be? It's really hard to make a case for picking anyone but Duncan. And absolutely nobody has KG or Kobe as their answer.

[Barfunk]

And the Kobe thing was put to rest years ago. A guy did a great series on Youtube called "Making the Case" where he makes an argument for eight NBA players to be the greatest of all time. Duncan is on the list of 8, Kobe and KG are not. My question is always, if you could draft one player from history at 19, who would it be? It's really hard to make a case for picking anyone but Duncan. And absolutely nobody has KG or Kobe as their answer.

Definitely of course Duncan. And I've read from many people who say that they would take KG and Kobe over Duncan when starting a team. Good thing they aren't GMs. No intelligent GM would pick those players over Duncan. If the GM is a mumble rapper, then yes, that GM would pick Kobe or Garnett ( maybe even someone like CP3) over Timmy.

[Barfunk]

And honestly, no disrespect to players like Kobe and KG, they were great, with Kobe being top 10 for sure, but Tim Duncan was a step above them. I don't understand why mainstream fans and media simply don't look to the 2002-2003 season, for evidence that proves this notion.

[SpursFan86]

This is nothing new. It’s beating a dead horse at this point but Duncan is criminally underrated amongst casual NBA fans.

I’ll say the thing that annoys me the most is how much credit Dirk gets for the 2011 le run. What Duncan did in ‘03 is far more impressive, but when you hear people talk about “most impressive playoff runs” it’s never mentioned while Dirk’s 2011 run is always brought up.

[Barfunk]

CRIMINALLY. And Dirk's 2011 run is actually amazing but like you said, Duncan's 03 run simply never gets mentioned amongst the verse dropping mainstream fans. Really never.

Edit: thought I quoted!

[scott]

It's all based on an obsession with athleticism and a confusion for athleticism with being a good basketball player. Many people on this forum make that mistake.

[Mr. Body]

Garnett isn't really being pushed by anyone but Celtics fans. But then Celtics fans are drooling morons who don't understand the NBA outside of their own players.

[Obstructed_View]

Garnett isn't really being pushed by anyone but Celtics fans. But then Celtics fans are drooling morons who don't understand the NBA outside of their own players.

And I've gotten to the age where I hate taking away from great players. Especially guys like KG and Kobe, who in my opinion were so committed to being great that they squeezed every drop of talent that they were capable of into production on the court.

Duncan was just better. He was a better player, he was a far better leader, and he was, far and away, the greatest teammate in the history of the NBA, and probably in the history of team sports.

[KobesAchilles]

I once went year by year to “prove” that kinda BS about KG vs Duncan. These are the Spurs teams with KG instead of Duncan
98 lose 2nd round Utah
99 lose 2nd round lakers
00 lose 2nd round Lakers
01 lose first round Dallas
02 lose first round Lakers
03 lose first round Phx
04 lose WCF to Lakers
05 maybe a championship
06 maybe a championship
07 lose 2nd round to Phx
08 lose WCF to Lakers(manu got hurt)
09 lose first round Dallas (Manu hurt again)
10 WCF but maybe lose to phx in 2nd round
11 lose 2nd round to thunder
12 2nd round to clippers
13 2nd round golden st
14 1st round Dallas
15 1st round clippers
16 2nd round Thunder

[timtonymanu]

Meh, Duncan was dominating in the era where casuals were tuned out because the Lakers were looking like . All that scowling by KG and all he got out of it was ONE championship and also having to team up with two other stars. No different than most superstars that join super teams.

Also Kobe will at this point be overrated by casuals and some analysts now that he’s passed away. Kobe’s death was tragic but I still remember some of the sociopathic behavior (like tweeting about how much his team sucks during a playoff game while he was injured) and many other things to count.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Even KG admits in so many words that TD was unsolvable for him and better than him. As for what he did to his teammates, here's something from KG himself - he ran Rasho Nesterovic off to the Spurs and who won a ring with Duncan as his leader. That made KG evaluate his at ude towards teammates and towards winning. It made him rethink his approach to the game and refocus his madness towards opponents than to his teammates. He admits that openly. Yet another page in the book of Duncan and his superiority as a player, a star and a teammate who just won without gloating about it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The only thing worse than listening to casual fans is listening to ex NBA players. It’s worthless even discussing. A couple of years ago after the bubble a lot of people were saying Davis was equal or better than Timmy. It’s nonsense of course.

That said, Timmy’s legacy will unfortunately continue to be downplayed in the future because he was so low key and because he was playing at a time when raw stats weren’t as crazy. It is what it is. We know.

[exstatic]

It's all based on an obsession with athleticism and a confusion for athleticism with being a good basketball player. Many people on this forum make that mistake.

His name is rascal.

[Ice009]

And I've gotten to the age where I hate taking away from great players. Especially guys like KG and Kobe, who in my opinion were so committed to being great that they squeezed every drop of talent that they were capable of into production on the court.

Duncan was just better. He was a better player, he was a far better leader, and he was, far and away, the greatest teammate in the history of the NBA, and probably in the history of team sports.

I agree 100%. TD is better at those things you mentioned than most any player in NBA history, but my stance hasn't changed in the last 10+ years. If starting a team, I'd either go with TD or Hakeem. That's pretty much it. Hakeem wasn't as great of a teammate or leader IMO (he did get better towards the end of his career), but his skills were off the charts and fortunately/unfortunately, his athleticism lasted longer than TD's. If Tim was able to keep his athleticism from his first few seasons as long as Hakeem did for his athletic prime (in his 30s), it wouldn't even be a debate between the two for me.

[NickiRasgo]

Can't stand KG - Fake Tough Guy.

[TD 21]

The only thing worse than listening to casual fans is listening to ex NBA players. It’s worthless even discussing. A couple of years ago after the bubble a lot of people were saying Davis was equal or better than Timmy. It’s nonsense of course.

That said, Timmy’s legacy will unfortunately continue to be downplayed in the future because he was so low key and because he was playing at a time when raw stats weren’t as crazy. It is what it is. We know.

Generally speaking, analytics too. The game wasn't about "shot profile", efficiency and spacing (granted, he preferred another C to start next to him and that was back before the notion of them stretching the floor was in vogue). Defense wasn't yet virtually outlawed either.

Drop the late 90s/early 00s (before the knees started going) version into today's game and he'd have been even greater than he was.

[ginobilized]

Duncan is the ultimate winner as a PF in the history of the NBA
KG was among the ultimate PF warriors, maybe the most fierce

However, KG's did not work on Timmy. At all.

KG/Pop would not have survived together for long, imo

People are obsessed with all the metrics, stats and numbers today, except winning. That's really the only metric that truly matters. No one has a winning career that compares to TD in my years of watching the game, started in 1974.

[spurraider21]

If you switch Garnett and Duncan in 2003, the Spurs get knocked out of the first round, maybe don't even make the playoffs (not with those iterations of Parker and Ginobili).

Mainstream fans don't get that shiny stats don't always equal being a game changer and making everyone better, all while being able to lift a team that otherwise wouldn't make the playoffs to a whole championship.

If you're talking about the 2005 Spurs, then yes, that team makes the playoffs without Tim Duncan (much much better versions of Parker and Ginobili) but of course don't win the ship.

I don’t think KG chokes as hard as Duncan did in game 5 of the finals tho

that s really ugly when rewatching

[exstatic]

Duncan is the ultimate winner as a PF in the history of the NBA
KG was among the ultimate PF warriors, maybe the most fierce

However, KG's did not work on Timmy. At all.

KG/Pop would not have survived together for long, imo

People are obsessed with all the metrics, stats and numbers today, except winning. That's really the only metric that truly matters. No one has a winning career that compares to TD in my years of watching the game, started in 1974.

Those two things are not incompatible, and in fact there is a correlation. The Spurs have always been on the cutting edge of advanced stats.

[couchman]

Can we talk about how Timmy may have been the best defender in NBA history?

[CGD]

Can we talk about how Timmy may have been the best defender in NBA history?

Preach