Reply With Quote
30/70 isn’t bad/terrible shooting. He literally needs to just take his left hand off the ball sooner.
Generally when this is said about a prospect, it doesn't happen (at least enough so to make a difference).
This organization, more than any other, needs to stop pouring significant assets into bad - terrible shooters.
There's this myth that because of S bag's unusual development as an overall shooter (and even he prefers to operate in the mid range), that they've had tons of success, but it's just not true when it comes to 3-point shooting.
30/70 isn’t bad/terrible shooting. He literally needs to just take his left hand off the ball sooner.
I don't think Orlando does that deal, personally. Maybe for 11, but probably not for 6.
And I wouldn't do 3 FRPs for Anthony Black (or anyone else left in this draft from 2 onward), personally.
He's unlikely to ever be so much as an average shooter. That's fine if he's as well rounded as he appears and he's surrounded by shooting, but the latter wouldn't be the case here.
By the way, I forgot the caveat of if that player has superstar or star potential of course.
On second thought, Orlando probably should do that deal. It's a Top 6 protected FRP (TOR), an unprotected 2026 FRP (with the added benefit of having two teams who could be bad to provide upside) and a top-1 protected 2028 FRP (again with the added benefit of having two teams who could be bad). No way I'm giving that up for Anthony Black. On overall value, that's more than ATL gave us for DJM.
Black (Or Jeremy as I call him) looks to be a guy who contributes to a team even without the ball. I'm not sure there's a scenario where he's not a plus player in the league. He may never be a star, but he'll be a solid pro who le teams will try to acquire. To your point, there may indeed be teams that don't utilize him properly, but I would doubt he would even be on their draft boards in the first place.
Gazing around, I only see Orlando and Dallas as teams willing to trade out of the top 10. The rest are trying to stay put or trade up. We also have OKC and possibly others trying to trade into the high lottery.
Orlando fans talk about how they have a good core but will have problems keeping them all down the line. Shooting is a massive need. They don't really need more young guys.
That said, I think fans will riot if they trade a high lottery pick for future picks. I do think the #11 may be available, maybe even probably.
Dallas may take Hendricks if he drops to #10, judging by their fans. Otherwise I think that's for sale. But they absolutely need something out of this draft, one player, two players, whatever.
Ergo... I don't see the Spurs getting to those spots without offering one of their two tradeable assets: Keldon or Zach. The rest are untradeable or have no big value yet.
And I don't see the Spurs moving either player - and especially not Zollins - without knowing how everything fits.
There's a very distant chance, if we're only talking about Black, that he falls to 10 or 11.
Supposedly, Portland said that if they didn’t win the lottery, they were trading out, but that would probably be for pieces to put around Dame.
Right. I guess I meant of the teams the Spurs would likely target. If Portland sells their pick it's going to be astoundingly expensive.
Which could be the problem for Black with the spurs who need more talent next to Victor, not glue guys (and they already have Sochan). He would have been perfect in the prime big 3 era, but spurs need a slasher today, another star who can create, drive and shoot to play the p&r with Victor and make defense not just focus on the big fella... Losing I don't know how many picks for Black doesn't make sense to me for those spurs. There are other priorities, reason they would (maybe) be more interested by Amen.
I 100 percent disagree. the Spurs need solid role players. They have a boat load of talented young players, and are going to have some hard personnel decisions coming up, and to the extent that they want to go win-now, they are going to want high floor guys.
I'm not sure what you think talent is.
It’s like they think the real unicorn mythological beast is going to drop by, and crap out a couple of ready made All NBA players.
Everyone has holes in their game. You pick guys that check the most boxes. Black checks a of a lot of boxes.
A swap means you get the better of the 2 picks (Atlanta or own), you can only trade your own pick with the perk that it has the swap attached. Meaning, the Spurs '26 pick unrestricted WITH swap is actually MORE valuable than Atlanta's unrestricted '25/'27 pick, since you can benefit from the eventual demise of 2 teams instead of one. Same goes for the Spurs own '28 pick with the Boston swap. I'd much rather trade Atlanta's unrestricted picks, or the Spurs own picks unrestricted as long as they're from '26 onwards, they should be non lottery anyways. But no way in do I trade THREE of them, even if I like Anthony Black.
Also, the Toronto pick is getting interesting. They're reportedly not bringing Van Vleet and Trent Jr back, and their recent choice of coach is said to be largely based on his perceived talent developing skills. That signals they're going for a retool at least, and I don't think Masai is the kind of guy that goes for a 3 year hard tank, so we'll likely get that pick in the lottery. I'd do that pick + Chicago's '25 (should also be good) + 2nd rounders, I'd be willing to take back salary (Isaac?), to include McDermott (they could use the shooting), but 3 high potential picks sounds too risky for my liking.
I agree. Also, I would add that the protection on the '28 swap is only on Boston's side, but it could convey as high as no. 1 as long as it's the Spurs who end up in that position. So it's still better than a generic unrestricted pick.
I agree the Spurs need solid role players. However, I think that's what I'd classify Vassell, Sochan, Johnson, Branham as. Yes they are talented young players... who project to be solid role players. I also don't think they want to go win-now right now.
Good catch.
Your proposal of TOR + CHI + SRPs + taking back salary is definitely more palatable, but still feels like a lot to give up on a gamble for an unproven player who projects to be a solid role player without star upside. Unless folks here are suggesting Black has star upside, in which case - then I get it. But the arguments for Black and the descriptions of his game don't sound like the descriptions of an all-star player. I hate to keep going back to this analogy, but they sounds like you're describing Derrick White. If we were perfectly able to see into the future when we draft, I'd happy draft Derrick White at 6-10. But I don't want to give up 3 FRPs for him. The deal you propose, Ariel, actually sounds really good if a team would go for it, given our abundance of picks. For ORL, that sounds more like a deal for 11 than for 6 though.
I kind of wonder if LJ's source was lying. Can't believe coming from teams before the draft tbh. Especially not after the Spurs lost Nenad Krstic by two picks when they didn't hide how much they liked him. Glad the Spurs didn't have the draft reputation they do now back in 01 when we all knew the Spurs wanted Tony.
If the Craptors lose Van Cheat and to a lesser extent Trent Jr. outright, when they could have traded them at the trade deadline.
It would also make the Poeltl trade look even more foolish on their part than it already does.
If they have any sense, they should offer Siakam for Simons and the 3rd pick or the 4th pick + (Porter Jr. and Martin?).
Definitely a fair point here.
My main point is for the cost of moving up, I don't think you pay that price for an elite role player. You only pay that price for an all-star.
Since the Spurs aren't just trying to move up here, they are trying to manufacture a lotto pick from nothing but future picks, the price is really f'ing high. Might be a similar price or even be cheaper to acquire an all-star who doesn't fit with a team's trajectory anymore (the example exstatic gave would be paying more for Anthony Black than ATL paid us for DJM).
Yeah I'm not trading three picks for no shot Anthony Black. Maybe if could handle the ball he'd be worth moving down to.
eh depends. Mike Conley and Jrue Holiday also were 30% 3 point shooters and 70% ft shooters in college who became good enough pro shooters while also being well rounded point guards like black
Hood-Shifino or however you spell it is a better shooter and at least as talented a passer as black, though doesn’t have his processing time and decision making
If you guys don't know what NBA star talent is, there's nothing I can do for you. First of all, Black doesn't check anything yet, since he has played a grand total of... zero NBA games. Making plays as a slow, skinny kid in College is one thing, let's see vs bulked up, pro adults... And if he was so good, he wouldn't be projected 6 or under, behind guys who potentially have more... talent. But what's funny is I'm sure that wouldn't have the spurs gotten the #1, none of you guys would pick Black with let's say a #2 to #5 pick, but some prospect with game changing, star potential (Amen, Scoot, Miller, Cam...) instead... PLease don't tell me you choose Black as your first pick in this draft. But we got Wemby, so let's drop 10 FRPs for Sideshow Bob because he's smart.
Go ask spurs about it, if Timvp is correct, spurs are precisely more interested in players with star potential, not Derrick Whites. You get Derrick Whites,when you get your two top dogs. Black is not a game changer and...
...No, precisely. None of these young guys currently in SA have real 2nd star talent, both on the floor and in personality. They won't be the top guys in any eventual ship run. They either will be traded within the next 2-3 years or will be solid role players, B stars in SA for the others..... You do'nt win a ship with a Wemby/Keldon/Black big 3... or whatever. no... You don't even make the POs, come on. , I don't like Scoot, but if you can't see the difference in terms of BB talent with Black.. I mean.
The current roster + Wemby and Black is still desperatly missing NBA difference making talent. That's Wemby and the kids. Spurs roster will look very different in 3 years and losing 3 FRPs or whatever for Black would be crazy. he's not worth that at all.
Last edited by JPB; 06-12-2023 at 05:04 AM.
I think I'd rather target their #11 than their #6. I think there's better value when I look at the players that will 'fit' best next to Wemby. I'm assuming the top 6 are Wemby, (then no particular order), Scoot, Whitmore, Thompson, Thompson, and Miller. That would mean at #11 at least three of Walker, Hendricks, , Wallace, Black, NSJ, or Bufkin would be available.
I think they're all better fits than any of the guys likely available at #6 and they'd cost less in assets and salary. I think it's the smarter play..
You're claiming that somehow Amen has talent when Black is already vastly more talented than he is, and this isn't particularly debateable. He's much better at nearly every facet of the game on both sides of the ball. Leaving aside defense, which amen is only a 'prospect,' Black is a far better ball handler, passer, facilitator, generator of offense and connector.
Black is a much better shooter. Like, right now, he's a much better shooter.
He's far, far better in the pick and roll.
And he's nearly a year younger.
The only thing you can say about Amen is that he's a better slasher, but we only know that because he was playing against some of the worst professional defenses in the world.
Everyone is getting hung up on what a star and what a role player is. The idea seems to be a run and jump athlete or big scorer is all that a star can be. And Amen isn't even a big scorer.
If you want a comparison to the type of player Black and potentially be, it's a player like Boris Diaw or Jason Kidd. Those weren't big scorers but the sure as multiplied the abilities of those around them. And sure as are the type of players I want on this team. Fortunately we already have one in Sochan and I look forward to seeing how far he goes.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions