Should Spurs make a run at Scoot?

[JPB]

You're the one with this weirdo projection of 'role player' for Black. Not even sure what that means.

To enforce this, you take the entire career of Kidd and compare him to Black as a nineteen year old.

Somehow Amen is a superstar for whatever fantasy next fifteen years in the league he'll have flying to the rim doing any thing imaginable, as if his growth curve is infinite, yet Black has no growth curve whatsoever. You realize Nash was a skinny dude coming into the league with more question marks than promise at one time, too, right?

So why is Black going to take his great at ude, work ethic, ability to see the floor, BBIQ, and defense and never get better? Why are you comparing him right now not to other high IQ, talented players when they entered the league and instead scratch him for not having a twenty year career already?

It's completely senseless.

If there's a player in the lottery, other than Victor, who I think will have a very long very impactful career bringing a lot of wins where he knows how to improve, it's very clearly Black.

This is how it happens.

Why? Answer yourself why black isn't projected #2 by eveybody then, if you lost your mind for the kid... How hard is it to understand these kids are ranked depending on talent people see on them? wouldn't be surprised if Black ultimately drop at 10 or under...

And no, nothing is "clear", not more than Black is gonna be the player you describe that Amen or Miller are gonna be stars... IT'S ALL ABOUT POTENTIAL, always been, always will be, that what drafting is about... If it wa that simple, there wouldn't be any debate or projections... Victor is the consensus #1 because he's perceived as the kid with the most talent... Scoot or Miller #2 because they're perceived as the two guys with the most talent behind Vic... And so on... Simple as that.

I've seen Black play many times and he's simply not one of the two stars you need on your team... He's good at many things, he's smart but he's just not a player you give the ball to win you the game at the end. He can really create for himself and is not a difference maker, the guys you see in POs win games... Sure, being a star is not just about athleticism but that's a prerequisite, unless you have gold in your hands, like Luka or Steph, who are still much more dynamic stronger and energetic than Black who is pretty slow and skinny. Jason Kid was also pretty strong and fast notably his hands. Kidd was a pure PG, with incredible court vision and passing skills, a star. You watch Antonhy Black and you don't see a difference maker. There's a lot of things he's doing in College he won't able to do in the NBA. If you can't shoot as a backcourt player nowadays, your value is massively dropping. Hes ' a guy who can complement your team where you already have your couple of stars.

Black is just not worth losing 2 or 3 FPRs you could use in much better ways (for Luka for example). I mean Black or Luka? not the same prize but the pick you lose for Black maybe prevent you to get Luka (or someone else).

[Dejounte]

I vehemently disagree they saw Kawhi becoming who he would become. They wanted to get their new version of Bowen because the big 3 could still compete. It wasn’t a gamble pick. He was a “best fit” for what we had at the time.

To add: Kawhi was obsessed with emulating Jordan. Almost unhealthy-like. More credit goes to him than the Spurs, for working hard to make that leap that made him blow away anyone’s expectations of him.

[Mr. Body]

Why? Answer yourself why black isn't projected #2 by eveybody then, if you lost your mind for the kid... How hard is it to understand these kids are ranked depending on talent people see on them? wouldn't be surprised if Black ultimately drop at 10 or under...

And no, nothing is "clear", not more than Black is gonna be the player you describe that Amen or Miller are gonna be stars... IT'S ALL ABOUT POTENTIAL, always been, always will be, that what drafting is about... If it wa that simple, there wouldn't be any debate or projections... Victor is the consensus #1 because he's perceived as the kid with the most talent... Scoot or Miller #2 because they're perceived as the two guys with the most talent behind Vic... And so on... Simple as that.

I've seen Black play many times and he's simply not one of the two stars you need on your team... He's good at many things, he's smart but he's just not a player you give the ball to win you the game at the end. He can really create for himself and is not a difference maker, the guys you see in POs win games... Sure, being a star is not just about athleticism but that's a prerequisite, unless you have gold in your hands, like Luka or Steph, who are still much more dynamic stronger and energetic than Black who is pretty slow and skinny. Jason Kid was also pretty strong and fast notably his hands. Kidd was a pure PG, with incredible court vision and passing skills, a star. You watch Antonhy Black and you don't see a difference maker. There's a lot of things he's doing in College he won't able to do in the NBA. If you can't shoot as a backcourt player nowadays, your value is massively dropping. Hes ' a guy who can complement your team where you already have your couple of stars.

Black is just not worth losing 2 or 3 FPRs you could use in much better ways (for Luka for example). I mean Black or Luka? not the same prize but the pick you lose for Black maybe prevent you to get Luka (or someone else).

Like I told you, Black has way more potential than Amen Thompson.

And I think Scoot is vastly overrated. I only put Black 3rd on my board because I think Scoot will become a 'star' as an inefficient volume scorer, and that gets people going for some reason.

This whole draft has been ed for a long time because Scoot, Miller, Thompson, Thompson, and Whitmore have been grossly overrated. Just ridiculously, almost hilariously overrated.

If you've watched Black play and not seen potential, I don't know what to tell you. I see scads of potential, same as I saw in Sochan, and I was right about Sochan. And, in the end Sochan will have been picked too low.

The draft process gets things wrong. A lot.

[RC_Drunkford]

Hum, that's the whole point....He is the perfect example of what drafting is about. Spurs gambled and traded a very valuable asset for him because of the player they thought he could become, not the player he was a draft day that made 14 teams pass. Great f'king job... They didn't spend 3FPRs for a role player, but a 26th pick role player for a future MVP level player, at least someone they saw star potential in their development program... One of the best moves in draft history and the only ones you should make...

they traded a back up PG for a starting SF basically, since we had a hole at that position for years since Bruce Bowen retired. Totally different scenario from now

[exstatic]

Why? Answer yourself why black isn't projected #2 by eveybody then, if you lost your mind for the kid... How hard is it to understand these kids are ranked depending on talent people see on them? wouldn't be surprised if Black ultimately drop at 10 or under...

And no, nothing is "clear", not more than Black is gonna be the player you describe that Amen or Miller are gonna be stars... IT'S ALL ABOUT POTENTIAL, always been, always will be, that what drafting is about... If it wa that simple, there wouldn't be any debate or projections... Victor is the consensus #1 because he's perceived as the kid with the most talent... Scoot or Miller #2 because they're perceived as the two guys with the most talent behind Vic... And so on... Simple as that.

I've seen Black play many times and he's simply not one of the two stars you need on your team... He's good at many things, he's smart but he's just not a player you give the ball to win you the game at the end. He can really create for himself and is not a difference maker, the guys you see in POs win games... Sure, being a star is not just about athleticism but that's a prerequisite, unless you have gold in your hands, like Luka or Steph, who are still much more dynamic stronger and energetic than Black who is pretty slow and skinny. Jason Kid was also pretty strong and fast notably his hands. Kidd was a pure PG, with incredible court vision and passing skills, a star. You watch Antonhy Black and you don't see a difference maker. There's a lot of things he's doing in College he won't able to do in the NBA. If you can't shoot as a backcourt player nowadays, your value is massively dropping. Hes ' a guy who can complement your team where you already have your couple of stars.

Black is just not worth losing 2 or 3 FPRs you could use in much better ways (for Luka for example). I mean Black or Luka? not the same prize but the pick you lose for Black maybe prevent you to get Luka (or someone else).

Go back and look at past mock drafts. Go and look at who panned out from that draft. I guarantee you that lots of #2s and #3s busted.

Mock drafts are an industry. I guarantee you that pundits push players KNOWING they aren’t the best, for various reasons. The NBA desperately wants GL Ignite to be relevant, and they’re not. Bronny James is hyped like the second coming, and he might not even be an NBAplayer past his rookie deal.

[R. DeMurre]

Very easy to find nonbelievers on this forum itself. Just dig through old threads and a lot of people talked about Kawhi just being a role player on here. In fact, a lot of the words being said about the current roster sounds like recycled garbage about Kawhi. Not saying anyone of them are Kawhi, but people have a tendency to pretend they know the future about players a lot.

I’m calling out a wide range of people here from both ends of the spectrum… a lot of you guys don’t learn your lesson and you pretend you know how everything’s gonna go. You don’t. Pull your head out of your ass.

Dude, your name is DEJOUNTE, and your avatar is the guy who's completely average and has fallen behind Sochan and Vassell in the pecking order of young players with future potential. Your head is so far up your own ass that you can eat your own breakfast for a second time from your own stomach.

[KobesAchilles]

I wonder if people actually have watched Black play?

He beats players off the dribble. What's more, he's not some Blake Wesley where he gets in trouble not knowing what to do at that point. He uses bumps and the hostage dribble at a level few 19 year-olds do.

It doesn't even make sense -- 'beat his man off the dribble.' As if running isos is smart basketball. Running isolations is stupid basketball. That's not even Spurs basketball to begin with. The league runs tons of dribble hand-offs and picks for a reason: it drags the big man out of the lane and makes both defender have to make snap decisions on the fly, something Black is already adept at capitalizing on.

I truly think the analysis here on Black is completely unfounded and very, very confused.

As for his shot, it's not terrible. Amen Thompson - now that's a completely broken and ed up jump shot. Black's issue is an almost too-solid base and repe ion. I'd almost want a shot that needs tweaks and changes than one that looks great and just doesn't go in. His can be more than fixed.

Yeah I have seen him play and he gets stuck in traffic easily bc he can’t lose his man off the dribble. That is a problem. We don’t need iso ball but we do need a man who can beat a guy off the dribble. That is always key in the nba. Steph is so effective bc he can consistently beat his guy off the dribble when you over play him. Manu beat his guy off the dribble, TP did as well. That isn’t isoball at all but it does mean that someone can initiate the attack at all times. Jamal Murray beats people off the dribble as well. It’s a necessity.

And his shot is broken. Like all of it. Can it be fixed? I don’t know. That’s a crap shoot. But saying that it needs a tweak is laughable. His feet are set wrong. He catches the ball and brings it to the wrong position and his form is awful. Nothing about that is an easy fix. Again I don’t see a player worth trading up for. Thompson has a beyond broken shot so yes I guess if you compare the two Black has a better jumper. But nobody is exactly caping for Amen.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

His feet are set wrong. He catches the ball and brings it to the wrong position and his form is awful.

What do you think Victor needs to change in order to become a good shooter?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah I have seen him play and he gets stuck in traffic easily bc he can’t lose his man off the dribble. That is a problem. We don’t need iso ball but we do need a man who can beat a guy off the dribble. That is always key in the nba. Steph is so effective bc he can consistently beat his guy off the dribble when you over play him. Manu beat his guy off the dribble, TP did as well. That isn’t isoball at all but it does mean that someone can initiate the attack at all times. Jamal Murray beats people off the dribble as well. It’s a necessity.

And his shot is broken. Like all of it. Can it be fixed? I don’t know. That’s a crap shoot. But saying that it needs a tweak is laughable. His feet are set wrong. He catches the ball and brings it to the wrong position and his form is awful. Nothing about that is an easy fix. Again I don’t see a player worth trading up for. Thompson has a beyond broken shot so yes I guess if you compare the two Black has a better jumper. But nobody is exactly caping for Amen.

Steph can't routinely beat his guy off the dribble. That's why they get picks all the time. And Black can beat guys off the dribble. You say you watch him and then you don't. It's just kneejerk idiocy.

Lol.

Like, seriously, if you're isoing your players, your team is going to flatline like every single James Harden or Kyrie lead team has. It's just dumb basketball.

And lmao on the shot. He's freaking nineteen years old. It's going to be fine.

[Mr. Body]

Giddey is at best a comparable athlete to Black and he gets past his man a ton and Black is a better athlete and stronger. Giddey just has more handles and is wiley. Those are things a smart dedicated player can learn. Those are things Black is.

Anyway, last statement, because Black is not on the board. But this kind of rationale is obnoxious:

Scoot Henderson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Amen Thompson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Anthony Blacks, has some problems: He sucks and will never get better

It's just pure fallacy.

[Dejounte]

Dude, your name is DEJOUNTE, and your avatar is the guy who's completely average and has fallen behind Sochan and Vassell in the pecking order of young players with future potential. Your head is so far up your own ass that you can eat your own breakfast for a second time from your own stomach.

Let the hate swallow you up Again and again I’m on your mind, and you picked even the weakest point about something as stupid as a forum username. You’re lame as , move on with your life already and put me on ignore already. You sound like a heart torn bitter ex.

[KobesAchilles]

I was talking about Anthony Black. I think Victor has a good shot

[KobesAchilles]

Giddey is at best a comparable athlete to Black and he gets past his man a ton and Black is a better athlete and stronger. Giddey just has more handles and is wiley. Those are things a smart dedicated player can learn. Those are things Black is.

Anyway, last statement, because Black is not on the board. But this kind of rationale is obnoxious:

Scoot Henderson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Amen Thompson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Anthony Blacks, has some problems: He sucks and will never get better

It's just pure fallacy.

I don’t want Scoot either. Not Thompson. Well I do want Thompson just Klay Thompson. We have Victor. We need shooting. I want shooting. Black and Scoot don’t do that for me. I mean they are both better than Tre for sure.

But if we did get Black then I would want to pick up either Kyle Lowry or CP3. CP3 has never been known as a mentor but I think Black would really become a little brother to CP3 with his passion and personality. And Lowry would be a great back up to learn from as well.

[KobesAchilles]

Also Mr. Body I think we have to separate ideas of beating a guy off the dribble. You take it as James Harden or Kyrie isoball and I take it more as Spurs ball movement. Set a pick and just create for yourself or the other guy. It doesn’t need to be every ing possession but it’s a necessity in when you need a bucket you are going to have to iso a guy. Black gets caught on a lot of pic n rolls bc he doesn’t fully beat his guy. That is just a fact. Now he is 19 and he can get better but lots of 19 year olds can get better. How many of them actually do. I like Blacks game but there’s a lot I’m scared about.

And to be fair I have less faith in Black bc we lost Chip. I have no idea of this new shooting coach is any good. I do know that if Chip teaches Giddy how to shoot them the dude is an all star. And if Black turns out as good as Giddey then I will eat crow but to me he will never be as good as him bc Giddey has a special feel for the game that I don’t think Black possesses.

Also Steph has the best handles in the game and is always beating his man off the dribble. To say otherwise is lying. But it’s not his whole game. They set a load of screens bc he happens to be the greatest shooter ever. But if you just iso Steph one on one (in his prime) he gets to the basket with ease.

[mo7888]

I don’t want Scoot either. Not Thompson. Well I do want Thompson just Klay Thompson. We have Victor. We need shooting. I want shooting. Black and Scoot don’t do that for me. I mean they are both better than Tre for sure.

But if we did get Black then I would want to pick up either Kyle Lowry or CP3. CP3 has never been known as a mentor but I think Black would really become a little brother to CP3 with his passion and personality. And Lowry would be a great back up to learn from as well.

I like the idea of Lowry as a mentor type PG on this team for a season... If we went that route (Lowry + NSJ, Black, Wallace, Bufkin, or Hood-Schifino) I'm not sure we'd want to resign Tre though. I think its an 'either/or' scenario.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Sounds like Portland's pick is up for sale. They want to add some instant muscle around Dame. I wonder if the Spurs could wrangle their way in there, even involving some other teams if necessary.

[mo7888]

Shams just said the Pelicans are aggressively looking to trade up to take Scoot.

I'm guessing Zion is on his way to Portland or Charlotte..

[BatManu20]

Pels want Scoot. I don’t see Charlotte moving that pick though unless it’s for a king’s ransom. Short of Brandon Ingram or Zion being traded, I don’t see it happening. Zion can’t even be relied on to play these days and is due a -ton of money next Summer. Sounds like a pipe dream for NO unless they make an offer Charlotte can’t refuse.

[scott]

Another thing that Dean says is that you should draft for the median outcome, not the 99% upside, since that's the most likely outcome. I'm not sure I agree with that if we don't have Wemby, but we do. We hit the homerun, and now just need some singles and solid doubles thru the draft.

I generally agree with this - and teams would usually be better off doing this than what they actually do. I keep going back to the example of Derrick White. Derrick was drafted #29 because he was an older prospect with a lower ceiling. But in a redraft, Derrick is probably a top-10 pick.

It's why I agree that Black is a great pick (I just don't think he's worth trading 3 FRPs for, some others disagree, which is okay).

[Joseph Kony]

Charlotte's FO is trash and will likely prioritize fit over BPA, so imo they will probably take Miller. If Scoot is on the board at #3 I bet Portland would be willing to trade it for BI + depth

[LeBowen]

Charlotte's FO is trash and will likely prioritize fit over BPA, so imo they will probably take Miller. If Scoot is on the board at #3 I bet Portland would be willing to trade it for BI + depth

I don't like it for either team, lmao.
Ingram is an efficent 25/6/6 wing in theory, but since his rookie season he hasn't played more than 62 games. Damaged goods.

Tbh, Blazers really need to blow it up. Dame's loyalty is admirable, but even if they got KD for free, they're not getting anywhere with that roster and there's no way they improve enough to become a legit playoff team.
Dame is 33 and has one or two good seasons left, what then?

Throwing away #3 pick in such stacked draft just to indulge him would lead to parennial mediocrity.

NOLA are also lost because Zion is useless for all intents and purposes except for chasing pros utes and pornstars. They should shop him around while he still has some value.


As for the Spurs, there's no realistic chance to move into the lottery. Forget about it. Maybe if Dallas are dumb enough to take Keldon, but he's not a good fit for them.

[Big Empty]

The Hornets should try trade Ball to Portland for the 3rd pick and pull a Houston Texans

[Joseph Kony]

I don't like it for either team, lmao.
Ingram is an efficent 25/6/6 wing in theory, but since his rookie season he hasn't played more than 62 games. Damaged goods.

Tbh, Blazers really need to blow it up. Dame's loyalty is admirable, but even if they got KD for free, they're not getting anywhere with that roster and there's no way they improve enough to become a legit playoff team.
Dame is 33 and has one or two good seasons left, what then?

Throwing away #3 pick in such stacked draft just to indulge him would lead to parennial mediocrity.

NOLA are also lost because Zion is useless for all intents and purposes except for chasing pros utes and pornstars. They should shop him around while he still has some value.


As for the Spurs, there's no realistic chance to move into the lottery. Forget about it. Maybe if Dallas are dumb enough to take Keldon, but he's not a good fit for them.

Agree. I don't think Portland should be ing around trying to win now but Dame has made it clear he wants them to make moves to contend and I don't see them trading him unless he actually demands it, so they will go all in now in an attempt to appease him. which is stupid as given his age and salary, but hey, there is something to be said about loyalty from your superstar nowadays.

I don't see them as real contenders but they intend to re-sign Grant, and if they can get something like BI + Herb Jones/picks for the 3rd pick without giving up their core guys and re-signing Grant, they have a pretty solid roster for '24:

Dame
Simons/Sharpe
Ingram/Jones
Grant
Nurkic

they'd probably be better served trading Simons for depth also but that team puncher's chance if they're healthy next year (which is a huge question mark). very limited window though

[JPB]

Giddey is at best a comparable athlete to Black and he gets past his man a ton and Black is a better athlete and stronger. Giddey just has more handles and is wiley. Those are things a smart dedicated player can learn. Those are things Black is.

Anyway, last statement, because Black is not on the board. But this kind of rationale is obnoxious:

Scoot Henderson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Amen Thompson, lots of holes: He's gonna be a starra
Anthony Blacks, has some problems: He sucks and will never get better

It's just pure fallacy.

Nobody said that, litterally nobody... No need to caricature other opinoins to try to validate you blind love for Bob. The only person sucking one player with his balls down the throat here is that Black worshiper...

Black can't beat his man of the dribble, create for himself and shoot to save his life but "he's 19, he'll be fine"... Why?" "Because I'm in love with the kid."

[JPB]

Spurs need a guy who can drive, slash and shoot, next to Victor, which Black wont really be able do against NBA compe ion. That's something you can see, he's not that type of guy. Not fast enough, strong enough and smooth enough. Bobo could shoot as a very young age already and couldn't really drive. But he was much more athletic than Black... If you can't shoot, or create for yourself, you better have other elite skills, and compensate with your strengh or athleticism, which Black doesn't. He's good a many things, but not elite at any, a good all around player but not your star. Scoot's shoot is suspect (much more fixable tho and decent actually) but he's fast and strong and elite at driving and finishing,

Anyway, the vast majority of the time, prospects who can't shoot never really develop a reliable one... Happens but odds are against you. And that's for guys who somehow have a shoot that resembles anything... Black is just throwing the ball up his shoulders.