Summer trades

[Mr. Body]

25 is definitely young. if you are pre-prime, im considering you young. if you are going to sign a multi-year contract and not expecting to decline by the end of it, i consider you young

there are obviously different magnitudes of young

and if the spurs did go out and acquire reaves, he would be competing with Branham to a large degree (though they can share the floor together)

People here are claiming Reaves is going to start as PG. That's not really directly competing with Branham.

Young in terms of what young means in the current NBA. , Jackson-Davis was drafted as a 23 year old and he might as well be Methuselah. Talking about advanced stats coming from a rookie doesn't make sense anyway.

[Extra Stout]

RAPTOR scores out Reaves as an All-Star caliber player basically. I think that’s an outlier.

[Chinook]

Reaves is not a "young two-guard." He's 25. He'll shortly be entering his prime and is certainly not old, but Branham is five years younger. He's making $3.2 million vs. the $25 million Reaves may be making soon.

He is a young two-guard in how Five Thirty Eight defines it (years 1 to 4). He's only been in the league a year longer than Branham. He's more than five years better than Branham on a normal development curve, though. Austin was incredible last year. I don't think folks appreciate that. It's unlikely Malaki ever becomes that good, though of course we hope that. Branham has to show he can even be a not-horrible player in terms of net impact, let alone key role-player. There are reasons to hope, but hope and confident projection are entirely different things.

Comparing the two doesn't really make sense, anyway. They're not in compe ion with each other.

I don't disagree with this really, but I wasn't the one who thought it made sense to compare them.

[spurraider21]

People here are claiming Reaves is going to start as PG. That's not really directly competing with Branham.

Young in terms of what young means in the current NBA. , Jackson-Davis was drafted as a 23 year old and he might as well be Methuselah. Talking about advanced stats coming from a rookie doesn't make sense anyway.

branham played a majority of his minutes last year at PG, including a number of starts

[Chinook]

RAPTOR scores out Reaves as an All-Star caliber player basically. I think that’s an outlier.

It's not actually, at least in terms of thinking Reaves was crazy good last year. He shouldn't be confused with being an All-Star or any real star at all. But he can certainly have an impact around stars, and it turns out the Spurs have a star prospect in need of guys who can have an elite impact when put around him.

[Bruno]

Among all the players that are said to be available and are realistic targets, Anfernee Simons is my pick. An offer like expiring/cap space and two first round picks would be fine with me.

If the rumor about Spurs inquiring about Jordan Poole was right, I ca definitively see them being interested in Simons.

[CGD]

No way in Cavs move Garland, but I’d be all over that if so.

[BacktoBasics]

He is a young two-guard in how Five Thirty Eight defines it (years 1 to 4). He's only been in the league a year longer than Branham. He's more than five years better than Branham on a normal development curve, though. Austin was incredible last year. I don't think folks appreciate that. It's unlikely Malaki ever becomes that good, though of course we hope that. Branham has to show he can even be a not-horrible player in terms of net impact, let alone key role-player. There are reasons to hope, but hope and confident projection are entirely different things.



I don't disagree with this really, but I wasn't the one who thought it made sense to compare them.

He looked good and had a nice playoff run. But he’s no where near the contract people are suggesting he’ll get.

[Kevin]

Malaki vs Reaves. Why would Spurs pay 25 yrs old Reaves 25mil, when they get the same production from Malaki on a rookie contract? I know Malaki's defense is not stellar, but I would argue that Malaki is 5 years younger and only on his 2nd year. He still has a lot to show before I write him off for a 25 yrs old who is not going to move the needle.

Malaki (top) vs Austin (bottom)

	Games	MPG	FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	RPG	APG	STLPG	BLKPG	PFPG	TOPG	PPG
	66	23.5	4.1 - 9.3	0.44	1.2 - 3.9	0.302	0.9 - 1.1	0.829	2.7	1.9	0.5	0.1	1.7	1.2	10.2
	64	28.8	4 - 7.7	0.529	1.3 - 3.4	0.398	3.6 - 4.1	0.864	3	3.4	0.5	0.3	1.7	1.5	13

You should really look at advanced stats before making direct comparisons. Mal had negative advanced stats. His VORP was -1.3 with a -5.3 BPM.

Also Reaves is a RFA like Tre Jones. Reaves max contract is four years 99 million. Spurs should do it even though the Lakers probably match. Make LA pay if noting else.

[baseline bum]

When people say "max", it can create the impression than he's getting like $40 Million or something. He's getting $25 Million a year, which is about $18 percent of the cap.

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?

[DesignatedT]

Reaves was playing next to Lebron and AD. Branham and Vassell were playing next to Bates-Diop and Mamu

[Mitch Cumsteen]

not to mention Reaves got better as the season went along. assist numbers really took off as they trusted him more (look at the usage rates)



and then that trend continued into the playoffs as well

As soon as they unloaded Westbrook and put the ball in Reaves hands instead, not only did his personal numbers take off but the Lakers went from the lottery to the playoffs. And mind you, most of those games were when Lebron was hurt so it's not like he was just getting free looks and playing off a star.

I'm a big fan of Reaves. He can play on ball, off ball, can run screen roll, is a knock down three point shooter, is an underrated playmaker/passer who doesn't turn it over and stepped it up even more when the lights got brightest. He's also plays decent defense. What's not to like other than the small sample size?

I would love for him to be on the Spurs even at a knee jerk $25 million/yr for 4, but the Lakers are going to match anything thrown his way. You might as well make them pony up and put a dent in their cap. Don't let them sign him on the cheap. That would be the worst outcome.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Even those stats show Reaves as a comfortably better player, but when you actually look at advanced stats, it's not even close. Branham was horrible last year. Absolutely abysmal. Reaves was elite. Like if you look up RAPTOR for young two-guards last year, Austin is at the top and Malaki is at 37 of 37. According to 82games, Reaves graded as the fourth-best Laker last year while Branham was the worst player in the Spurs rotation. Even in BBRef, Reaves grades out so much better than Branham that it's not even worth comment.

As I've said, Reaves reminds me a lot of Danny Green in terms of the arguments people use against him. Danny was arguably a top 5-8 SG in his prime when you factor everything in, but people used to find things to pick at him to put anyone they could think of over him. It's okay to not be the youngest or have a bunch of upside left. Branham would have to grow an absurd amount very quickly to out-value Reaves. Vassell still has to grow a lot too, but at least in his case I think they'd start together just fine. Branham would still get his chances if the Spurs did sign Reaves. They could play together as well, but if they were to give Reaves a four-year deal and Vassell and extension, it would be hard to see Malaki staying long term.

The Spurs could definitely use a guy who can raise the team's floor for where they expect their young talent to be. The Spurs should be patient with their youth, but they shouldn't feel beholden to their development. They have cap, and they have plenty of trade assets. It's okay to use them.

you need to dig less into the numbers and actually watch the games if you want to assess the prospects of the players. 🤓
13/14 Tim Hardaway Jr. 33 of 35
14/15 Andrew Wiggins 30 of 36
14/15 Zach LaVine 26 of 26 (PG)
15/16 D'Angelo Russell 31 of 34
15/16 Devin Booker 32 of 34
16/17 Bojan Bogdanović 46 of 46
16/17 Brandon Ingram 34 of 34 (SF)
17/18 De'Aaron Fox 27 of 29 (PG)
18/19 Malik Monk 50 of 52
19/20 RJ Barrett 45 of 47
19/20 Jordan Poole 46 of 47
19/20 Anfernee Simons 47 of 47
19/20 Darius Garland 30 of 30 (PG)

[baseline bum]

Reaves only shot the three 1% better than Vassell while having two HOFers to draw attention from him while Devin had? Keldon Johnson? to occupy other team's defenses. Don't see any need to pay another shooting guard when Devin is probably better and definitely cheaper in that role with more potential to grow. Someone else can overpay Reaves, no thanks. Would much rather have a point guard and a center.

[John B]

You should really look at advanced stats before making direct comparisons. Mal had negative advanced stats. His VORP was -1.3 with a -5.3 BPM.

Also Reaves is a RFA like Tre Jones. Reaves max contract is four years 99 million. Spurs should do it even though the Lakers probably match. Make LA pay if noting else.

If Lakers didn't call Spurs bluff, then Spurs will be stuck with an overrated 25 yrs old role player on Max for 4 years. Worst it derailed Malaki and Blake development as PG taking their minutes. If we're talking about Darius Garland, heck send Malaki/Blake packing. But we're talking Austin Reaves??

[Kevin]

As soon as they unloaded Westbrook and put the ball in Reaves hands instead, not only did his personal numbers take off but the Lakers went from the lottery to the playoffs. And mind you, most of those games were when Lebron was hurt so it's not like he was just getting free looks and playing off a star.

I'm a big fan of Reaves. He can play on ball, off ball, can run screen roll, is a knock down three point shooter, is an underrated playmaker/passer who doesn't turn it over and stepped it up even more when the lights got brightest. He's also plays decent defense. What's not to like other than the small sample size?

I would love for him to be on the Spurs even at a knee jerk $25 million/yr for 4, but the Lakers are going to match anything thrown his way. You might as well make them pony up and put a dent in their cap. Don't let them sign him on the cheap. That would be the worst outcome.

Yup Lakers match but Spurs should do it anyway and make them pay. If Keldon at 20 million a year is considered team friendly then Reaves at 25 is an easy call.

[spurraider21]

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?

the max for reaves is something like 4/99 or therabouts. arenas provision prevents you from giving 25% of the cap for each of the 4 years. its why a max deal for him of 4/100 would have that poison pill structure of 11/12/37/38 or whatever (though for the team making the offer like the spurs, they could choose to play it out as something more resembling 25/25/25/25)

[spurraider21]

Reaves only shot the three 1% better than Vassell while having two HOFers to draw attention from him while Devin had? Keldon Johnson? to occupy other team's defenses. Don't see any need to pay another shooting guard when Devin is probably better and definitely cheaper in that role with more potential to grow. Someone else can overpay Reaves, no thanks. Would much rather have a point guard and a center.

Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/aus...es-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

i think Reaves could take minutes at the point. i also think Vassell could easily just slide into the 3. dont think he's confined to just be a 2-guard. his propensity for the midrange iso game, improving playmaking have some shades of nephew, who was primarily a 3

[Chinook]

??? Maxing means a max salary, which is 25% of the cap for someone with his level of experience. Or 4 years, $143 million with the max base year and max 4.5% raises. What else would max mean?

There are so many maxes that I can't go into them all. As SR21 pointed out, the difference between what the Spurs can offer Reaves on a four-year deal, what the Spurs could offere Jones on a five-year deal and what another team could offer Jones on a four-year deal are all different. Reaves' deal is way less than a regular max for a player with his tenure, but it's the absolute most he can sign for, which is why people are using that term here. It takes it from paying him like a young star to paying him like a key role-player. PATFO is trying to figure out who of the players on the team can be key role-players round Wemba. Or they can just sign a guy who's already been an elite role-player to a future-proof contract instead.

Other notes on this contract:

The Lakers can't actually offer Reaves this deal. They can only give it to him via matching. So don't take Austin talking to other teams as a sign LAL is going to let him go.

The Spurs can offer Reaves as soon as the moratorium starts, though the 24-hour clock for the Lakers to match doesn't kick in until then. I'd recommend that the Spurs not trying to play around with LA if they have Reaves as their main target. Offer him, let them match and move on.

The Lakers and Spurs cannot agree to a sign-and-trade, since the Lakers are unable to sign Reaves to the contract SA can offer. This means there's no way to pay LAL off to avoid them matching.

[baseline bum]

the max for reaves is something like 4/99 or therabouts. arenas provision prevents you from giving 25% of the cap for each of the 4 years. its why a max deal for him of 4/100 would have that poison pill structure of 11/12/37/38 or whatever (though for the team making the offer like the spurs, they could choose to play it out as something more resembling 25/25/25/25)

I wasn't taking max Lakers could offer as max salary when dude earlier in the thread said max him out. Though $25M a year would still be a bitter pill to swallow for Reaves; would be a little better than the Jordan Poole deal but I'm not sold on Reaves at all from one season of good production while having two HOFers getting him wide open shots. Whoever they sign they should frontload the out of the deal in Year 1. Doubt the CBA would let you do 43, 18, 19, 19 but would definitely weigh that first year down as much as possible if they wanted to give someone a 4 year, $99 million deal.

[spurraider21]

I wasn't taking max Lakers could offer as max salary when dude earlier in the thread said max him out. Though $25M a year would still be a bitter pill to swallow for Reaves; would be a little better than the Jordan Poole deal but I'm not sold on Reaves at all from one season of good production while having two HOFers getting him wide open shots. Whoever they sign they should frontload the out of the deal in Year 1. Doubt the CBA would let you do 43, 18, 19, 19 but would definitely weigh that first year down as much as possible if they wanted to give someone a 4 year, $99 million deal.

Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/aus...es-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

[baseline bum]

Reaves still hit over 38% of his 3's and 52% of his FG's while averaging 4.5 assists to 1.7 turnovers in games where LeBron didnt play. thats a 24 game sample size too, over a quarter of the regular season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/aus...es-this-season

mind you that the lakers were one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league so they werent exactly playing with spacing. reaves WAS the spacing

i think Reaves could take minutes at the point. i also think Vassell could easily just slide into the 3. dont think he's confined to just be a 2-guard. his propensity for the midrange iso game, improving playmaking have some shades of nephew, who was primarily a 3

Vassell sliding to the three? That's even worse since the Spurs have a logjam there with Sochan and Johnson and are probably going to have to end up trading Keldon. Unless you want to trade Vassell I don't understand wanting Reaves.

[spurraider21]

Reaves can cook on his own tbh

[spurraider21]

Vassell sliding to the three? That's even worse since the Spurs have a logjam there with Sochan and Johnson and are probably going to have to end up trading Keldon. Unless you want to trade Vassell I don't understand wanting Reaves.

sochan not a 3

keldon is the odd man out. or worst case you just have really good depth and let keldon feast on backups. or let reaves be your 6th man in a manu role

still not addressing Reaves performing just fine without LeBron in the picture

[baseline bum]

Reaves can cook on his own tbh

You can find highlight videos that make Austin Rivers look like a HOF talent.