Shams: Spurs Trade for Phoenix G Cam Payne

[BacktoBasics]

You think they're going to cut him so he can sign somewhere else? You think they're going to go with, like, Devonte Graham this year instead of continuing with Wesley? Who have they cut while they were still developing? I can think of only one, and it was his at ude and quit that cut him.

I don't get this line of thinking whatsoever. Why would they cut someone at the end of Summer League just because he hasn't yet turned a corner? It's senseless.

It’s ing annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

[CGD]

according to fanspo 2 months restriction

Cedi Osman cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 04, 2023.

Reggie Bullock cannot be traded to a team aggregated with other players from his team because 2 months have not passed since he was traded for. He can only be traded away to a team by himself and other non-player assets from his team (draft picks, cash considerations, etc). This restriction expires after Sep 10, 2023.

Is this right? I’ve seen elsewhere that when a player is acquired with capspace (as with all our moves so far) that the player can instantly be re-routed and aggregated?

[NickiRasgo]

Didn't Patty was traded 3x in 1 week? What's the rule on that?

[CGD]

It’s ing annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

Yeah just that’s just dumb. They have like 3 year developmental plans for these guys, and invested heavily in seeing those through.

It’s part of the reason why I think Payne ultimately gets cut tbh.

[dbestpro]

Can Payne had quite a few good games when Paul went down for the Suns. I think he is a solid backup PG and provides needed playmaker skills.

[Obstructed_View]

Waiting for an example of a single person saying to cut Branham.

[slick'81]

Can Payne had quite a few good games when Paul went down for the Suns. I think he is a solid backup PG and provides needed playmaker skills.

dare we say he unseats tre?!

[daslicer]

Good trade Cam is a solid player and is a veteran. Always good to have veterans on a very young team.

[Chinook]

Waiting for an example of a single person saying to cut Branham.

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the compe ion for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the compe ion is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the compe ion for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. , they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp, making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.

[spurraider21]

It’s ing annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

Nobody here has suggested waiving branham

[daslicer]

It’s ing annoying is what it is. Got members here wanting to cut Branham too. Half thought after Wembys first game that we’d have a handful of dumbass members suggest he be cut because Barlow looks good.

Spurstalk has always been like this. It's filled with bipolar idiots who are prisoners of the moment. The only positive of sucking the last few years is that those bipolar idiots weren't around but now they have returned in full force with the Spurs drafting Wemby.

[Ariel]

Spurstalk has always been like this. It's filled with bipolar idiots who are prisoners of the moment. The only positive of sucking the last few years is that those bipolar idiots weren't around but now they have returned in full force with the Spurs drafting Wemby.

Worst take I've ever read. I love it.

[Ariel]

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the compe ion for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the compe ion is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the compe ion for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. , they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp, making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.

I'm higher on Branham than you're, but overall I pretty much agree with your overview of the roster, there's definitely something happening sooner or later even assuming Stevens and Birch are cut (pretty much a given). I'd like to see Wesley another year on the G-League before making a decision on him, but it's getting crowded and I wonder if he's as safe as I assumed not too long ago.

[T Park]

Looks like the Spurs can still carve out another ~$9 million in cap space if they delay signing Tre Jones and waive Stevens. I guess it could be even higher if they can work out a contract buyout with one of these vets they acquired.

A nice thing about these trades the Spurs have made is they've acquired vets who actually fit reasonably well. Payne adds needed point guard depth. Bullock and Osman add three-point shooting and experience on the wings.

Great offseason so far, IMO.

The Bullock trade is the best of the bunch but the Osman and Payne deals are better than most salary dumps.

believe I also read if they renounce Dieng's cap hold etc it goes up too

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Is this right? I’ve seen elsewhere that when a player is acquired with capspace (as with all our moves so far) that the player can instantly be re-routed and aggregated?

maybe you're right

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I have seen reporting to the contrary on this - that because the Spurs acquired these players with cap space, they are able to aggregate them immediately.

No restrictions since they were acquired into cap space...

ok
ty

[tbdog]

Realistically, what player could Spurs get in a package for some of these contacts, considering the roster crunch.

Capela?
Fournier?
Larry Nance?
Causo?
Conley?
Hunter?

[kobyz]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

[jesterbobman]

Closest I can think of was me a couple of times. The first time, I wondered if the team could look to trade Branham if they ended up drafting another SG with their first pick (this was pre-lotto if that wasn't obvious) and could get a second lotto pick after the trade. Second was me saying that Reaves was way better than Branham and that Malaki would have to improve his metrics substantially in order to reach the same level of performance. No, neither of those is suggesting cutting him, but it's that sentiment that Branham hasn't shown himself to be a core prospect which I think Basics is exaggerating to make his point. And yes, a lot of posters do get stuck in the idea that talking about trading a guy is the same as wanting to cut him. It's a bad assumption, but it's pretty normal on forums.

As far as Body is saying, I don't think the Spurs are going to cut Wesley because of summer league. I do think they were interested in bringing in a vet PG in large part because of summer league. I think if Wesley had come in and looked really good, especially in terms of his intangibles, the Spurs would have been fine running with the group they had already. But he doesn't look like a rotation player. They could use another guard, if only in camp to push guys. As I've said multiple times, you want to actually have real obstacles for guys to overcome. The tanking Spurs with no star prospects could afford to play a bunch of guys with horrible metrics but a lot of chutzpah. The team can't afford to do that now. They will almost certainly cut some first-round picks as time goes on, even some who don't look completely hopeless. If it's not this year, it is likely to be next year. Wesley might survive camp, and if he plays well, he'll definitely survive. But he could play bad enough that he can't beat out guys who frankly deserve it more than him (in that scenario).

Jones/Payne/Graham -- I really like that camp battle. All three have a chance to win the starting job, and any of the three might end up out of the rotation (although Jones would be the most surprising)

Vassell/Branham/Champangie -- Unless something happen and Devin is traded, he should be the starter. But the compe ion for minutes behind him should be fierce. With Champ being able to play the three and Malaki the one, there's a chance both make the rotation. But still, it could be intense.

Johnson/McDermott/Bullock --Keldon might be the sixth man if Sochan beats him out, but I'm not assuming the Spurs go into camp with that as their plan. McDermott and Bullock are interchangeable. Maybe one or both is traded this summer. If not, Doug has the clear advantage.

Wembanyama/Sochan/Osman/Mamukelashvili -- The battle here is obviously only for that third spot, but I do think the compe ion is open. While Mamu might slide to the five and Cedi to the three, I think it would be hard to see both make the roster

Collins/Bassey/Barlow -- I don't think Collins is locked in despite the reporting. Pop saying Zach was their starter before winning the lotto doesn't mean anything. He'll get the first crack at it, but this has to be who fits best with Wemby. This could be Collins, but Barlow has a head start in chemistry. Assuming Zach starts, the compe ion for backup center should be intense.

Rice -- two way
Cissoko -- limbo but could take Bullock's spot if the Spurs like him enough
Birch/Stevens -- Cut

So that leaves Wesley on the bubble, even with most of the fan trimmed away. Yes, Osman and Bullock could be both be cut, and Cissoko could have to go back to Europe. But we don't know that for sure. The Spurs will have two or three firsts with other young PG prospects like James in next year's draft. They don't have to stayed married to Wesley. They could cut him, hope he makes it past waivers, then lock him into a two-way deal. , they might pick up his option if he agrees to do that, though that' would be bad cap management. Blake on a two-way would be 100 percent worth keeping. Wesley on the 15 is another matter. I'd say it's likely he stays, but there are a bunch of scenario where he doesn't.

Also, timvp, making a more comprehensive version of this post in a month or two as part of a series of pre-camp articles seems like a really cool idea. I imagine you were already thinking along these lines. But if this sparks the idea, feel free to run with it.

I think this is a pretty decent summary of where the Roster is, and looks like going into training camp.

The reality of cutting picks is pretty clear. The job of roster construction is to get good players, and try not to be too committed to how you got them - For instance, the Spurs were eventually smart in going with Danny Green over James Anderson (injury happened), but not being stuck with whoever you drafted, and just going with the best of similar position / age choices is good practice. I think we could cut Blake, but the pick was still decent as a sensible gamble on tools and rim pressure.

[Mr. Body]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

Then we'd just be sitting here with our in our hand.

[spursparker9]

He can be the Nick Van Exel role

[Dhbsr555]

Not a good sign for Wesley.

Wesley might be cut

[mo7888]

Should have gone after Reaves instead of all those moves

I'm not so sure.. it's pretty close to a wash as it stands, but i expect a consolidation trade that will make this path more desirable..

[duncan2150]

Wesley will not be cut after only one year with the ball club

birch, stevens are gone

then one of payne or graham will be traded or cut ( i guess graham, payne looks more solid as a back up pg), and also one of osman, bullock imo ( i guess osman) will be cut or trade

Spurs could still open near to 10 Mo of cap space so a lot of possibilities to finish the offseason

[CorrectCrusader]

Payne will get cut long before Wesley does.