Tanking means losing on purpose. Full stop.
Kind of wild that the Spurs may benefit from removing the protections on this pick. I also think Gradey is wild overpay and think ex is right that the Spurs may not even have a spot for him. He'd go into the Champagnie slot and I think they value him a lot right now. My feeling is the Spurs would likely get SRPs or similar.
Can’t wait to make the playoffs again simply so we can stop arguing about whether we are tanking or if we just suck
Have him back up Vassell. If the Spurs are tanking the value of that pick by allowing them trade for Lillard I don't want SRPs, they need something big in return.
We are in essentially the same situation with Chicago. They are supposedly after Dame as well and would need to release the protections on the 2025 pick the Spurs own. That one actually en bers 2024-2027's FRPs for the Bulls. It's incredible that these franchises are lining up to mortgage their futures for a guy who won't put either team over the top IMO and even more incredible that SA is in a position to reap significant benefits to help them do it.
seems like such an easy projection to make, though. It's not just that he's an accurate outside shooter, but he does so on volume and has shown the ability to be able to shoot well on the move, and shows the instincts to move well off the ball, cut, and in the tournament had a number of timely offensive rebounds. He can also pick up quite a bit by shadowing McDermott for a year as he's expiring and might be a deadline sell anyway. These type of release valve shooters always have value, and while he's no ace, he appears to be less of a defensive liability than other college sharpshooters we've seen.
Its also notable that he seemed to have this advanced feel for movement even as a freshman. a lot of the college shooting phenoms we've seen like McDermott, Re , Korver, Fredette, Steph, Klay, etc all played 3-4 years of college ball during which time they added some of those elements to their game. seems ready to hit the floor running. Would be nice to have someone like that locked up on a rookie scale deal. We saw how much McDermott cost
its been a long time since the spurs as a team have been an above average 3 point shooting team. in the modern nba thats a death sentence
I’m not a huge fan of GD but I like his energy and he definitely seems like the kind of player personality that would mesh well here.
The idea the Spurs can pull a Gradey or similar out of this trade is pretty far fetched. I understand the Spurs have leverage, if Portland wants earlier picks from Toronto, but there are other options to get it done. Sending to SAS just makes an expensive deal exorbitant. If there is any interest in getting the Spurs to lower protections, the Spurs have incentive to do it, too. I'd expect some lesser considerations.
agreed. i think is too steep from Toronto's perspective. unless the spurs were willing to throw in at least a SRP or two
plus if any of this reporting is to be believed, i think portland wants back as part of a deal
I wouldn't hate getting GD, I'd just prefer the unprotected 2029 swap down the road. We're going to have a hard time in the future getting picks like we have been and still can for a year or so, so I'd like to kick some of that down the road.
We have zero incentive to do it. If they get Dame, that pick goes from mid lottery after they flip Siakam to not lose him next summer, to mid 20s. That's a huge nut punch.
What are those other Toronto options? Does someone else hold a pick that literally holds their trade hostage? We, OTOH, have another option, apparently, in Chicago, holding their pick hostage for the same Dame trade. Toronto has no other options that don't deplete their roster and make the trade less valuable. They need picks, in the near term, and we hold the one and only key to them that doesn't deplete their roster.
Last edited by exstatic; 09-26-2023 at 01:59 PM.
I'd love to squeeze assets out of nothing. If anything, the Spurs might try to jump in to salvage something out of a pick that increasingly looks worse. I think Toronto can trade 2028 and 2030 without changes. Assuming Portland likes , they take . If they don't, they can probably flip him for something Portland values.
Toronto just has to bid against Miami, whose package doesn't look great. I don't even know if Lillard wants to go to Toronto anyway, but if he does and the above scenario emerges, it would behoove the Spurs to try to save their pick. If so, Toronto can probably keep and Portland gets more of what they want.
Just don't know what the compensation would be.
I meant to say the Spurs have incentive to work on a deal in order to get something out of it.
Why? They're looking to move Siakam so he doesn't walk like FVV next summer if there is no Dame trade. That puts that pick in the lottery, mid to late. I'm totally fine with that, as I imagine BW is, and you'd have to come up with something to make it worth my while, like your lottery pick from last year.
The only way the Toronto trade gets done is if we allow it to. I don't think Portland wants two picks and two swaps way down the road, which is all Toronto can manage right now, swaps in 27 and 29, picks in 28 and 30. No trade, and we probably get a lottery pick next summer.
Give them two SRP, flipping that protected Toronto pick for would be a nice haul. Bare minimum he would be a nice role player off the bench with his shooting.
Sure fire? Damian Lillard is 33 and can't stay healthy. Toronto is also going to have to gut a decent amount of their roster to get him. Nothing would be more hilarious than Toronto giving up assets to remove the protections and the pick still being near the top of the draft.
Beyond that, this argument about tanking is just weird. The Spurs were actively not trying to win games last year. Disregarding the roster moves (Murray, White, Poeltl), they rested guys with bogus injuries and played with the defensive intensity of the Washington Generals.
They may very well suck again this year, but there is zero point in them actively trying to lose games. They already hit the jackpot with Wemby, and there is not a no-brainer generational talent waiting at the end of the rainbow in next years draft. The best player in the draft may very well not go first, or even in the top 5 or 10 picks. And if there is somebody that they fall in love with, they have the picks and young assets to move up to get him. You could argue that they have too many picks and assets, and would be better off moving some of them or pushing them further down the road.
In any event, there is no reason for them to be actively trying to lose games going forward. It's time to start re-instilling the winning culture, even if it doesn't manifest in a lot more wins.
All Toronto needs to do is beat Miami. The need to be the faster runner with two runners against the bear. Portland seems to value Anunoby much more than Herro. The rest just seems to be how the coffers are filled. Miami can offer a couple late decade picks, Toronto can offer a couple late decade picks. Miami can throw in Jacquez and Jovic -- although it sounds like they're underbidding with Herro + 2 picks. Toronto can throw in Gradey . Maybe like Achiuwa.
The Toronto package is simply better for Portland as it is. It beats Miami. The Spurs don't necessarily have to be involved at all.
I think you mean two SRPs and dropping the protections but keeping the pick for Gradey . I don't think that happens. I'm wondering what situation the Spurs can peel off but don't know any examples where a trade was done to remove protections. Just theoreticals, it feels more like giving the Charlotte pick plus two SRPs to drop the protections, but that doesn't seem enough. I'd do it, though.
There's talk that Ayton and Nurkic would be on the move somehow anyway, so if anything happens this could be bigger than just three teams.
No, they need to beat Miami and Chicago, who is also interested in removing our pick protections, for a cost.
He's more durable than the recent perception and the depth hinges on Trent Jr. (Craptors need to retain him if Gradey D is an automatic). Otherwise, Anunoby is the only notable loss.
They'd still have a top 8 (Lillard, Trent Jr., Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl, Schroder, Achiuwa, McDaniels) that while spacing challenged, could talent their way to a low-mid 20s pick with health/clutch time fortune.
The Spurs have all the leverage to extract max value.
It's interesting that you see clearly the bogus Spurs injuries from last year, but don't seen the bogus Lillard injuries of the last two seasons to late tank for better draft positioning.
Toronto isn't going to strip the pick protections unless they see themselves as a top 4 team in the East with Dame. They'd be stupid to even make the trade at all if they didn't. I don't expect Dame to earn his salary at the end of this contract, but they'll get 2-3 really strong years from him. The trade, if it happens, will likely be Siakam, who they're already actively trying to move, plus filler *(Siakam and Thad young works) and a boatload of picks. Their roster will be in no way gutted.
Fair enough regarding the injuries, but the Blazers were 27-31 with Lillard last season and 15-14 with him the year before that. Even healthy, there's no guarantee that Toronto is a top 4 team in the East. They were a 41 win team last season. How much better are they minus Siakam and VanVleet, but plus Lillard? I guess it depends on whether Barnes is who he looked like in year 1 vs year 2, but he's not exactly on a positive trajectory. Even with Lillard, I don't like their roster more than Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, Miami or Cleveland.
Who is the centerpiece Chicago can offer? They don't have anyone who beats Anunoby.
If I'm the Spurs, I see that Toronto could be pretty bad this year, so helping them cement a playoff spot and making it harder for the Charlotte pick to convey is a non-starter. I don't think Gradey is enough incentive to give that up.
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