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  1. #826
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    I think Israel-Palestine, despite how tiny it is and how few people, relatively speaking, are involved, is and always has been the weak point in the fabric that holds the present Western-dominated rules-based order together.

    The rules-based order did away with the right of conquest. For a while, that sort of held together. The Cold War kept this or that country in line. After the Cold War, American hegemony kept countries in line. But more and more, we have this fiction where the lines on the map drawn by the UN less and less reflect the realities on the ground. Does Libya actually exist? Does it matter that the UN map shows Crimea as part of Ukraine?

    With Israel, the UN right at its own founding undermined the principles it espoused. There never was any real justification to create a Jewish state in Palestine. Why, because Britain promised one? What right did they have to allocate land that belonged to somebody else? I don’t listen to the propaganda about how there never was a Palestinian state. Land that had belonged to Arab families for centuries was placed under alien control because Britain needed to get out of a bind of its own creation.

    Why should Arabs care that Anglo-American Protestant theology calls for a Jewish state in Palestine? How is that not aggression? How is that not colonialism?

    The best justification for the existence of Israel is the reality that those 7.5 million Jews aren’t going anywhere.

    The existence of Israel lays bare that the rules-based order is undermined by its own hypocrisy. The right of conquest is abolished by a hegemon in the United States that exists only because it conquered a continent. If under the present order Israel shouldn’t have a right to exist, then neither should the United States. But that is ridiculous. So the whole rules-based order is revealed as ridiculous, and so we revert back to might makes right and a new age of war under the ominous backdrop of nuclear weapons.

  2. #827
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Israel understands this. They understand that the rules-based order is a sham and that they can get away with annexing the West Bank if only they take their time. Russia knows full well that it is a sham. China understands it too.

    The USA is getting stretched trying to hold the old world order together. How many wars can it fight at once? While increasingly drowning in debt with interest rates ing? Might always made right; it was just that the USA was so mighty that it could keep the rest of the world in check. In a multipolar world that falls apart.

  3. #828
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    The "rules based order" was just some made up bull by the US when they were the Unipolar superpower (from 1990(fall 9f USSR) to around 2014(Syria failure))

    It also didnt help that US was the main violator of this "rules based order" with their invasions, illegal wars, sanctions and even terrorist attacks on allies (norsdtream)

    Now that US is no longer Unipolar superpower. Its a new world
    Last edited by hater; 10-18-2023 at 09:36 AM.

  4. #829
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    The "rules based order" was just some made up bull by the US when they were the Unipolar superpower (from 1990(fall 9f USSR) to around 2104(Syria failure))

    It also didnt help that US was the main violator of this "rules based order" with their invasions, illegal wars, sanctions and even terrorist attacks on allies (norsdtream)

    Now that US is no longer Unipolar superpower. Its a new world
    In this age states exist because they have the power to exist. States have sovereignty to the extent they are able to exercise sovereign power. More powerful states are able to impose more or less suzerainty upon others based upon their power. The lines on the map are just vestiges of a dead age — the territorial extent of states extends only to their boundaries of control.

  5. #830
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    In this age states exist because they have the power to exist. States have sovereignty to the extent they are able to exercise sovereign power. More powerful states are able to impose more or less suzerainty upon others based upon their power. The lines on the map are just vestiges of a dead age — the territorial extent of states extends only to their boundaries of control.
    No. Thats not what the UN charter states.

  6. #831
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    I think Israel-Palestine, despite how tiny it is and how few people, relatively speaking, are involved, is and always has been the weak point in the fabric that holds the present Western-dominated rules-based order together.

    The rules-based order did away with the right of conquest. For a while, that sort of held together. The Cold War kept this or that country in line. After the Cold War, American hegemony kept countries in line. But more and more, we have this fiction where the lines on the map drawn by the UN less and less reflect the realities on the ground. Does Libya actually exist? Does it matter that the UN map shows Crimea as part of Ukraine?

    With Israel, the UN right at its own founding undermined the principles it espoused. There never was any real justification to create a Jewish state in Palestine. Why, because Britain promised one? What right did they have to allocate land that belonged to somebody else? I don’t listen to the propaganda about how there never was a Palestinian state. Land that had belonged to Arab families for centuries was placed under alien control because Britain needed to get out of a bind of its own creation.

    Why should Arabs care that Anglo-American Protestant theology calls for a Jewish state in Palestine? How is that not aggression? How is that not colonialism?

    The best justification for the existence of Israel is the reality that those 7.5 million Jews aren’t going anywhere.

    The existence of Israel lays bare that the rules-based order is undermined by its own hypocrisy. The right of conquest is abolished by a hegemon in the United States that exists only because it conquered a continent. If under the present order Israel shouldn’t have a right to exist, then neither should the United States. But that is ridiculous. So the whole rules-based order is revealed as ridiculous, and so we revert back to might makes right and a new age of war under the ominous backdrop of nuclear weapons.
    And that 6 million Jews were exterminatedPERIOD

    That is their claim to fame and regardless how the gaggle that exterminated---them NAZI's are & have been about for the last 80 years in Ukraine after we'd been prepped that they was long gone.

  7. #832
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Israel understands this. They understand that the rules-based order is a sham and that they can get away with annexing the West Bank if only they take their time. Russia knows full well that it is a sham. China understands it too.

    The USA is getting stretched trying to hold the old world order together. How many wars can it fight at once? While increasingly drowning in debt with interest rates ing? Might always made right; it was just that the USA was so mighty that it could keep the rest of the world in check. In a multipolar world that falls apart.
    Answer: "Whatever it takes."

  8. #833
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    Just in case anyone still has doubts or wants to spi this bombing of the hospital by Israel.

    Staright from UN logs:
    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupie...5-october-2023

    14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured.


    Also this same hospital was told to evacuate by Israel days before. They couldnt. They could not take out the sick and injured.


  9. #834
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    Hezbollah pirooz ast, Israel nabud ast

  10. #835
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    Oh no, Israel cares very much about the media, especially in the West. They have to hide their aggression in the West Bank in plain sight.
    I don't mean to suggest they never care about the media, which is why I specified they feel they have a mandate. In this case they're in full charge mode because they feel the attacks give them enough cover to weather any bad press they're getting.

  11. #836
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Just in case anyone still has doubts or wants to spi this bombing of the hospital by Israel.

    Staright from UN logs:
    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupie...5-october-2023

    14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured.


    Also this same hospital was told to evacuate by Israel days before. They couldnt. They could not take out the sick and injured.

    You may as well forget it, hater. Biden would rather take the gas pipe as to blame yahoo/Israel. Regardless, (it's) in with all the rest of do-dads & whatnots...who blew JFK's head off?, who blew up the Twin Towers?, how did Trump get inside the wire?, on & on.

  12. #837
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    The move that ignited attention was Hamas. They made a very bold move they knew would bring . Israel doing their illegal annexing of the West Bank is on going and business as usual. This does not make it morally sound, its just easier to do things incrementally. China knows this. Russia did not get it and made an incredibly stupid move.

    So one question that needs to be asked is why did Hamas do this and is there anything to the timing. Because their move was quantum level in comparison to what usually goes on which includes constant border clashes, and as I stated before, Israel continuing to annex the West Bank.
    Hamas went much further than they have gone before... why?

  13. #838
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    IDF is a terrorist organization. ing s

  14. #839
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    Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Israel supported ISIS in an attempt to overthrow daddy Assad? Israel calling anyone terrorist is hypocrisy at its finest

  15. #840
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    Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Israel supported ISIS in an attempt to overthrow daddy Assad? Israel calling anyone terrorist is hypocrisy at its finest
    It was very cringe to see Netanazi say "hamas = isis" knowing for a fact that he supported both in the past.

    Blinken, Biden, Netannazi look terrible out there. A scrub and 2 TOSBs getting bullied in the playground. Smh

  16. #841
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    I don't mean to suggest they never care about the media, which is why I specified they feel they have a mandate. In this case they're in full charge mode because they feel the attacks give them enough cover to weather any bad press they're getting.
    They can’t go into full charge mode. Their room to act is constrained by what will destabilize its neighbors. Whole different ballgame if Salafists take control again in Jordan, Egypt, and Iraq.

  17. #842
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    The move that ignited attention was Hamas. They made a very bold move they knew would bring . Israel doing their illegal annexing of the West Bank is on going and business as usual. This does not make it morally sound, its just easier to do things incrementally. China knows this. Russia did not get it and made an incredibly stupid move.

    So one question that needs to be asked is why did Hamas do this and is there anything to the timing. Because their move was quantum level in comparison to what usually goes on which includes constant border clashes, and as I stated before, Israel continuing to annex the West Bank.
    Hamas went much further than they have gone before... why?
    If only the ummah will unite in jihad against the Zionist aggressor, Allah will deliver victory and restore Al-Quds to the faithful. Hamas’s bold strike above the necks of the Jewish dogs will encourage the faithful to rise up and recover the irrevocable waqf of Filastin for Islam.

    Is there need for any motivation beyond that? They attacked at the time and place of their choosing. We’re starting to see uprisings in other Muslim countries. Hamas must be quite encouraged.

  18. #843
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Israel supported ISIS in an attempt to overthrow daddy Assad? Israel calling anyone terrorist is hypocrisy at its finest
    Tell it, Ghazi.

    Testify!!!

  19. #844
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    If only the ummah will unite in jihad against the Zionist aggressor, Allah will deliver victory and restore Al-Quds to the faithful. Hamas’s bold strike above the necks of the Jewish dogs will encourage the faithful to rise up and recover the irrevocable waqf of Filastin for Islam.

    Is there need for any motivation beyond that? They attacked at the time and place of their choosing. We’re starting to see uprisings in other Muslim countries. Hamas must be quite encouraged.
    Okay....

    How did they choose the time and the place?
    These top leaders are quite crafty.
    The ones that have stayed alive this long are resourceful and clearly have the ability to carry out tasks at certain times and places.

    For example. Is it possible they thought now is a good time to put pressure on Saudi Arabia for getting a bit cozy with Israel?
    Time proximity with Russia invasion of Ukraine?

  20. #845
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    If only the ummah will unite in jihad against the Zionist aggressor, Allah will deliver victory and restore Al-Quds to the faithful. Hamas’s bold strike above the necks of the Jewish dogs will encourage the faithful to rise up and recover the irrevocable waqf of Filastin for Islam.

    Is there need for any motivation beyond that? They attacked at the time and place of their choosing. We’re starting to see uprisings in other Muslim countries. Hamas must be quite encouraged.
    Back to $6 a gallon just like the sucker's first 90 days as fake President, the mother er.

  21. #846
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    The move that ignited attention was Hamas. They made a very bold move they knew would bring . Israel doing their illegal annexing of the West Bank is on going and business as usual. This does not make it morally sound, its just easier to do things incrementally. China knows this. Russia did not get it and made an incredibly stupid move.

    So one question that needs to be asked is why did Hamas do this and is there anything to the timing. Because their move was quantum level in comparison to what usually goes on which includes constant border clashes, and as I stated before, Israel continuing to annex the West Bank.
    Hamas went much further than they have gone before... why?
    One theory is the progressing normalization of relations between Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. Iran had Hamas pull the trigger on their plan knowing Israel would over react and alienate the rest of the Arab world.

  22. #847
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    One theory is the progressing normalization of relations between Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. Iran had Hamas pull the trigger on their plan knowing Israel would over react and alienate the rest of the Arab world.
    Hope so, and Biden is in the jackpot with yahoo and the Jews.

  23. #848
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Israel is very credible. They have been "settling" Palestine for decades, in the past week have been straight up threatening them with genocide, and since they are credible, why don't you believe them when it actually happens?

    Killing your own women and children is ed up, now explain how killing other women and children is better? Are we supposed to pretend that Israel doesn't kill Palestinian women and children??
    Already pointed this out. There's simply no moral equivalence. Why is Israel even taking the time to actively prove that they didn't blow up that Hospital and Hamas did?

    We already know Jihadists not only don't conceive what a war crime is, they'll happily perpetrate it, broadcast it, post it on Twitter, along with celebrations on the streets about it.

    Again, turn this around. Can you even imagine Israel using their own women and children as human shields? Furthermore, what do you think the Jihadists reaction to that would be?

    I can absolutely believe that Israel made a mistake. I can also disagree with some Israeli tactics like not allowing aid in. But you build credibility with your actions.

  24. #849
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Just in case anyone still has doubts or wants to spi this bombing of the hospital by Israel.
    IDF releases audio of Hamas terrorists admitting they fired at Gaza hospital

    https://nypost.com/2023/10/18/idf-re...d-at-hospital/

  25. #850
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    One theory is the progressing normalization of relations between Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc. Iran had Hamas pull the trigger on their plan knowing Israel would over react and alienate the rest of the Arab world.
    A bit too cozy... seems that was clearly happening. This makes sense.

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