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  1. #601
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    It's fun watching this place turn into Clutchfans after less than one game. re s.
    For me these games are all house money. It's about just enjoying watching Wemby play which I felt the refs ruined to a large degree in this game. Hopefully the next game he won't be hindered by foul trouble.

  2. #602
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Game was fine honestly. Lots of good signs and just a very young team that got outplayed by the best player in the game at the end. This team is going to need to learn how to close out games but that's a process. Way more good than bad tonight and lots to build of off. Y'all gotta keep the hype in check. He's going to need to learn all kinds of lessons and this is how that happens.
    Vic made some dumb fouls and was getting bodied by Grant Williams the first three quarters, but I loved his response in the fourth. Well not when he committed that stupid reach in on Doncic to begin the quarter. But you know what I mean.

    And as much as I wanted to smash the TV seeing how wide open Irving was on that corner three (was like watching slow motion and thinking WTF Jeremy?) gotta have him out there to learn how to play in pressure situations too even if Tre is having a good game since Sochan is in the team's long term plans. Kind of expected the game to go like this honestly. Spurs keep it close on talent but then get their hearts cut out by Doncic at the end.

  3. #603
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    Speaking of insecure people.
    Maybe talk out of your ass less. Dog takes lol

  4. #604
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Well, gotta give Grant Williams a lot of credit, locked Wemby the up for three quarters. And Doncic was who he has always been. Still can't believe how wide open Sochan left Irving on that corner three. Felt like that was game right there.
    Grant played as good a game as Dallas can expect out of him.

  5. #605
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Doncic had a triple-double and was pretty clutch. He would be hard to beat when he beast like that. Just the same our young guys hanged in there. That’s the most we can ask.

  6. #606
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    It was a shame to see Donkey push off on that last shot and the refs swallow their whistles given all the BS calls they made to that point. Though Sochan was a bit indecisive on that rebound I thought he was probably fouled there too. It seemed like every long offensive rebound went right to the Mavs and the total opposite on the other end. Mavs got more than their share of bounces all night it seemed. Would be nice for someone like Champagnie to develop to replace most of Osman and McDermott’s minutes.

    As far as the Sochan PG experiment complaints I get it, but if he finishes better at the rim I think we feel better about him. Wemby and Vassell seemed like the go tos down the stretch, instead we got others playing hero ball and/or just chucking. Jones clearly was the hot hand compared to Sochan at the end though.
    We had guys try to hero ball it at the end that really aren't "go-to" players. Oh well, tough game. Some good signs from Victor at the end. Wish we could have gotten the win, but oh well. Looks like Victor took the loss personally as he left the court pretty quickly. The kid wants it. Great to see. His teammates need to get him or Vassell the ball. Most of the other players are nowhere near good enough to try and hero ball.

  7. #607
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    I knew when the spurs never even tried to get lillard that this would happen…

    but on the other hand….its just one game and wemby was never allowed to play ..refs did call legit fouls on wemby but on the other hand williams was allowed to foul at will and spurs got ticky tacked to death…

    this will still be a decent team and wemby will learn how to stay out of foul trouble- step 1 was tonite as he did not disrespect any ref and being the respectful pro that he is the refs will soon feel comfortable calling fairly

    a few flashes when wemby came back in is encouraging and sochan will also get better

    i dont mind sochan on the floor - he needs minutes and after some growing pains- he WILL pay off

    tre jones played well but hopefully pop does not overreact and pull sochan

    stay the course - it will take a little bit and then wemby will dominate
    Why on earth would the spurs want Dame? He'll be retiring by the time this is a championship caliber team.

  8. #608
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    If Wemby doesn‘t get in foul trouble we most likely win the game. It‘s actually surprising we kept it that close with all the mistakes the team made tonight, atrocious coaching included. A lot of stretches of terrible basketball. Also why did Pop not run dribble hand offs for Wemby like he did against Houston in preseason?

  9. #609
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Vic made some dumb fouls and was getting bodied by Grant Williams the first three quarters, but I loved his response in the fourth. Well not when he committed that stupid reach in on Doncic to begin the quarter. But you know what I mean.

    And as much as I wanted to smash the TV seeing how wide open Irving was on that corner three (was like watching slow motion and thinking WTF Jeremy?) gotta have him out there to learn how to play in pressure situations too even if Tre is having a good game since Sochan is in the team's long term plans. Kind of expected the game to go like this honestly. Spurs keep it close on talent but then get their hearts cut out by Doncic at the end.
    Wemby will learn quickly. Spurs also need to learn to feed him the ball. I love Keldon but he has to feed the hot hand there. They'll all figure it out.

    The whole team had a very deer in the headlights look the last two minutes. If they're compe ive this season games like this will hopefully help them figure it out.

  10. #610
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    Maybe talk out of your ass less. Dog takes lol
    All I hear from you are insults, not an actual take. Maybe try and be a legit contributor to this forum by posting your opinion and take instead of just posting insults and thinking it makes you look smart, cause posting excessive insults on an anonymous forum just makes you look like a desperate keyboard warrior.

  11. #611
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    While I want to blame the refs 100% for Wemby’s foul trouble, he also just seemed to be off to me on the defensive end.
    He roamed to help on the wrong guys or just seems out of position a lot. Someone replay the fouls and tell us which seemed valid. I doubted the one when Donkey drove was legit, that guys creates all kind of contact and to give him a ticky tack seems bogus. I also thought when they took away the 3 as Williams whined and acted butt hurt to draw a foul was BS, maybe I’m wrong. Overall we need to play better and not expect any help from refs not to mention good officiating.

  12. #612
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    Good loss. Wemby finished healthy. Vassell looking much improved. Sochan will figure it out. Long season ahead of us. Keep the tank rolling.

  13. #613
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    If Wemby doesn‘t get in foul trouble we most likely win the game. It‘s actually surprising we kept it that close with all the mistakes the team made tonight, atrocious coaching included. A lot of stretches of terrible basketball. Also why did Pop not run dribble hand offs for Wemby like he did against Houston in preseason?
    Pop is deflecting the pressure off Wemby, and not having him do too much. It’s his first game and everybody’s eyes on him. This is more just getting his feet wet, get his first game done and over with. This season is just about learning to play with one another

  14. #614
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    One real positive was Wemby 3 of 5 from three. Again should not be a primary go to, but a worry was Wemby shooting a low 3 pt percentage so that was good to see. Also it is clear the other team can’t stop him, we just need to learn how to use him best on offense.

  15. #615
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    Why on earth would the spurs want Dame? He'll be retiring by the time this is a championship caliber team.
    because dame has 4 good years left and victor wants to win now

    tonite , for example, with lillard putting up his usual 20-25 pts and wemby struggling in a still close game- this would have been a W

    this re ed “spurs need 4 years to be a championship team” makes me sick

    we have the unicorn and we can win now if wemby had some star next to him

    but forget lillard- that ship has sailed and its ok

    now just let the best players have floor time until they gel which is why i want sochan on the floor and tre jones as backup

    it will work, wemby will dominate, the long arms of the defense will start to stymie opponents and spurs will be a pretty good team this season


    stay the course

  16. #616
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    Dallas has players that can execute in close games. Spurs didn’t lose because of the refs. Just poor execution on offense and defense the last two minutes. The Spurs demonstrated their youth. But still saw a lot to like.

  17. #617
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    This is why offensive structure matters. I've been harping on Pop actually calling actions much more frequently, on having guys play more traditional and limiting how often folks can break off plays to go for their own points. All of those play a role in Victor struggling. Sochan is going to get better, but the position isn't a natural fit for him, and the sacrifices the offense makes by not having a guy with legit guard agility were more obvious than ever. Because there were no sets, players weren't able to have landmarks for when to pass the ball and where to be to receive that pass. A lot of that depends on chemistry, but there are actually rules to movement and passing windows. The chemistry plays into that by guys trusting each other to read the contingencies correctly. As I've said before, as much as the "Beautiful Game" looked organic, it was built out of a complex offense with a number of options, reads and actions planned out. The team isn't running anything like that right now, and that's led to guys decided to get their own shot way too much. Everyone is taking bad shots, dribbling into trouble, throwing wild passes, setting bad screens, etc. It's a selfish thing. It comes from guys trying to get open rather than being a cog and waiting their turn. When you don't run things to get guys good shots, they look for any shot they can get. That last offensive possession showed everything we needed to see to get a sense of where the team is right now in terms of its offensive coaching.

    Defensively, it is what it is. The Mavericks showed why having a legit vet guard matters. There is no sure ball-handler who can get their own shot on the Spurs, and SA saw down the stretch how such guys put pressure on defenses that can elevate role-players. Yes, they fouled too much. Victor can learn; the others will probably just slightly improve. They have to throw their hands in there because their feet aren't going to get it done. Collins is going to be hit or miss, and as long as he stays out of foul trouble, he'll probably be okay. Bassey shows the limits to jumping when one's a short as he is. Vassell wasn't bad, but he's not going to hold up much as the primary perimeter defender. Jones was the best defender on the team last year, and he showed that type of solid play tonight, even if he's going stopping Luka.

    No changes should be made in terms of rotation after this game. Too early, and Dallas has some unique attributes that allow them to match up with this version of the Spurs in a way many other teams won't be able to. If Victor played the first three quarters like he did the last, the Spurs might've even won the game. He needs to figure out that he should only expose himself to a foul in certain situations. He showed he can not foul for stretches. That needs to be the default, and the lunges and pokes should be used strategically. As he gets more accustomed, the times where those actions make sense will increase in frequency. He doesn't have to be flashy right away. But this game was enough to show Pop can't be as laissez-faire about the offense if he wants a successful rookie season. He needs to get the reins on some players, and that could mean something like bringing Jones and Osman to the first unit and sending Johnson and Sochan to the bench. That's not starting your best five or whatever, but it is making a function unit on both sides of the ball along with making a more functional bench that isn't relying on Branham carrying.

    That would be for later, though. For now, play those five but give them assignments and have them play within those. Have Wemby run certain actions and lead to him getting the ball in the high post or moving toward the rim and let him establish himself offensively. Run actions with Collins to try to get some vertical spacing going. Have Keldon drive -- he flubbed it up at the end, but he had a very good game actually. Take out most of the long passes until they learn to throw them accurately. When Bassey is in the game, have him PnR with whomever is handling the ball. Limit Branham's on-ball time to whenever Wemby isn't playing. Bring Jones in early, probably for Keldon. Continue to limit McDermott's minutes until the offense has enough structure to reincorporate him or until the team finds a perimeter player to replace him. I think it's perfectly fine if the Spurs don't prioritize winning games this year. But it would be nice if they tried something different in terms of their player development. As much as their guys have flashed talent, it's amazing how far they have to come to be role-players. That's what the majority of them are going to be in this league, and they really seem to struggle with it, and I think that lays at the coaching staff's feet.

  18. #618
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    All I hear from you are insults, not an actual take. Maybe try and be a legit contributor to this forum by posting your opinion and take instead of just posting insults and thinking it makes you look smart, cause posting excessive insults on an anonymous forum just makes you look like a desperate keyboard warrior.
    I’ll contribute basketball takes when I don’t see dog ones like “Sochan is the worst starter I’ve seen.”

    So again, fix your gotry first.

  19. #619
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    KJ has to learn to dial it back in crunchtime. He's a likeable guy and a leader on the team, but going 1 on 1 is not his game. Him attacking the teeth of the defense wrecklessly is also not ideal.

    Honestly, the best halfcourt offense down the stretch might be to just give Wemby the ball and have him shoot over his defender from literally anywhere on the court. It's so easy for him to get his shot off.

  20. #620
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    I mean I guess it's good that our guys aren't forcing Victor the ball in awkward places, but...maybe don't completely freeze him out down the stretch? They need to do more to let him find his spots.

  21. #621
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    One other positive, to come roaring out of gates for 43 points. The chatters on the score couldn’t believe the Spurs could play at that pace. I was like yep, we can. The problem was they got too frenetic and sloppy, keep up the pace but keep it under control. Like Bassey in bound tapping the ball right to the other team.
    THINK! We saw a glimpse though, of how the Spurs intend to try and run other teams out of the building and I’m not betting against them being able to, being one of the youngest teams in the league.

  22. #622
    Believe. Blizzardwizard's Avatar
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    Hopefully some valuable lessons learned tonight. Can't have Wemby get so few touches and seriously expect to win games this season especially against better teams. Foul-trouble aside there seemed to be a general disinterest in finding Victor even when he was on the court.

    At times he was genuinely being well defended but at others he was just being flatout ignored despite being in strong positions. Whether it was down to poor vision, selfishness or just bad luck it can't happen going forwards and it was typified by him taking over in the fourth then being left to stand around on the perimeter for the last minutes as guys around him made bone-headed drives into traffic with the outcome inevitable.

    PATFO need to be ruthless on this. Guys have to know whose team this is going to be for the next 15 years or more. One game is far too small a sample size but, over the coming months and years, players who ignore Victor on mismatches, cuts, rolls etc. (whether it's intentional or not) need to be threatened with losing minutes and, failing that, shipped out and replaced by players who know their role and can do the job required.

  23. #623
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    Chinook I agree with most all you say, basically I had summed that up with too much “hero ball”. Everyone seems to have the green light to shoot and attack all the time, and when you lose concepts like good to great in the process or don’t get your best players enough looks that is what Pop needs to fix. Which seems very doable.

  24. #624
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    A lot of easily correctable mistakes. KJ closing out the game needed to play more controlled and less forced. Overall excited for the next game and season. This team can still be quite special.

    Keldon is not correctable. What we saw is what he is. People should have realized that by now. Gung ho, bull in a china shop. There are times it’s ok, but he doesn’t have the height or hops to make it work in heavy traffic. You can’t teach “taller.” And we definitely can’t rely on him to playmake in heavy traffic. I don’t like Pop putting Keldon in a position to fail.

    Nor is it “easily” correctable to make them get the ball to Wemby near the basket, altho it’s probably possible with more time and practice. One would hope.

    But like you, I’m also excited for this season, and I expect them to get significantly better.

  25. #625
    Veteran TrainOfThought5's Avatar
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    This is why offensive structure matters. I've been harping on Pop actually calling actions much more frequently, on having guys play more traditional and limiting how often folks can break off plays to go for their own points. All of those play a role in Victor struggling. Sochan is going to get better, but the position isn't a natural fit for him, and the sacrifices the offense makes by not having a guy with legit guard agility were more obvious than ever. Because there were no sets, players weren't able to have landmarks for when to pass the ball and where to be to receive that pass. A lot of that depends on chemistry, but there are actually rules to movement and passing windows. The chemistry plays into that by guys trusting each other to read the contingencies correctly. As I've said before, as much as the "Beautiful Game" looked organic, it was built out of a complex offense with a number of options, reads and actions planned out. The team isn't running anything like that right now, and that's led to guys decided to get their own shot way too much. Everyone is taking bad shots, dribbling into trouble, throwing wild passes, setting bad screens, etc. It's a selfish thing. It comes from guys trying to get open rather than being a cog and waiting their turn. When you don't run things to get guys good shots, they look for any shot they can get. That last offensive possession showed everything we needed to see to get a sense of where the team is right now in terms of its offensive coaching.

    Defensively, it is what it is. The Mavericks showed why having a legit vet guard matters. There is no sure ball-handler who can get their own shot on the Spurs, and SA saw down the stretch how such guys put pressure on defenses that can elevate role-players. Yes, they fouled too much. Victor can learn; the others will probably just slightly improve. They have to throw their hands in there because their feet aren't going to get it done. Collins is going to be hit or miss, and as long as he stays out of foul trouble, he'll probably be okay. Bassey shows the limits to jumping when one's a short as he is. Vassell wasn't bad, but he's not going to hold up much as the primary perimeter defender. Jones was the best defender on the team last year, and he showed that type of solid play tonight, even if he's going stopping Luka.

    No changes should be made in terms of rotation after this game. Too early, and Dallas has some unique attributes that allow them to match up with this version of the Spurs in a way many other teams won't be able to. If Victor played the first three quarters like he did the last, the Spurs might've even won the game. He needs to figure out that he should only expose himself to a foul in certain situations. He showed he can not foul for stretches. That needs to be the default, and the lunges and pokes should be used strategically. As he gets more accustomed, the times where those actions make sense will increase in frequency. He doesn't have to be flashy right away. But this game was enough to show Pop can't be as laissez-faire about the offense if he wants a successful rookie season. He needs to get the reins on some players, and that could mean something like bringing Jones and Osman to the first unit and sending Johnson and Sochan to the bench. That's not starting your best five or whatever, but it is making a function unit on both sides of the ball along with making a more functional bench that isn't relying on Branham carrying.

    That would be for later, though. For now, play those five but give them assignments and have them play within those. Have Wemby run certain actions and lead to him getting the ball in the high post or moving toward the rim and let him establish himself offensively. Run actions with Collins to try to get some vertical spacing going. Have Keldon drive -- he flubbed it up at the end, but he had a very good game actually. Take out most of the long passes until they learn to throw them accurately. When Bassey is in the game, have him PnR with whomever is handling the ball. Limit Branham's on-ball time to whenever Wemby isn't playing. Bring Jones in early, probably for Keldon. Continue to limit McDermott's minutes until the offense has enough structure to reincorporate him or until the team finds a perimeter player to replace him. I think it's perfectly fine if the Spurs don't prioritize winning games this year. But it would be nice if they tried something different in terms of their player development. As much as their guys have flashed talent, it's amazing how far they have to come to be role-players. That's what the majority of them are going to be in this league, and they really seem to struggle with it, and I think that lays at the coaching staff's feet.
    good point on role player mindset and mentality. Keldon, Vassel, and to a point Sochan all feel like any shot they take is a “good” shot, and they’ll have to adjust because of the way we played last year. In the 4th quarter especially it has to be Vassell and Wemby Time.

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