i was overall more pessimistic on the season outlook than most, kind of in line with what Bruno has been saying
with that said, i'd be lying if i said that wemby's preseason didnt get me thinking that this team would be better, earlier than ive thought. in the preseason, it largely looked like as long as he's on the floor, his leave his footprint on the game. instead so far in the reg season he's kind of being a dormant volcano that just erupts for minutes at a time. did so for one stretch against dallas, late against houston, but not at all against the clippers.
Well, in year two (beginning of year 2) we still don't know other than I think he has improved a little. Certainly he can post up point guards and score on them as he did that against Dallas and Houston. Since he's playing point guard, he will get less rebounds and blocked shots, but he did okay in those areas last year as a rookie on limited minutes. He's the best one on one defender we have on the roster, even if he isn't an all-NBA defender. And it takes 2-3 years to learn how to be an NBA point guard for guys that have been playing point guard most of their lives. Maybe if people are patient, he will look really good at the end of the year. I don't think PG is his best position, but Pop feels he's one of the best 5 players on the roster and he can't play him at the 4 since that's Wemby's spot and he can't play him at the 5 because he is a little undersized for that.
Sochan is good because he can do a little bit of everything. And he has a motor. Give him another year or two in the league and he will get better at everything. It took Vassell three years to look like a good player. Why bail on Sochan after 3 games of his second year when he played well for half the season last year before the Spurs sat him to tank for Wemby?
our best line up has been Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Osman/Wemby by my memory. We always went on the run with that line up
Sochan is not the best defender on the team. His defensive rating was 9th best on the worst defensive team in the league last year. He's overrated in here and doesn't have stats to support the hype.
Well the Spurs had him guarding the best player on every team last season. They are doing the same this season. So the stats don't tell you everything. Obviously the Spurs, who know more about defense than any of us and the talent level of their defenders, demonstrated that he is the best individual defender on the team by assigning him to the toughest defensive assignments.
Who on the roster is a better individual defender than Sochan?
Wemby (cough, cough)
But I really like Sochan.
Wemby is a great team defender but you can’t expect him to lock down every position one on one. Wemby wasn’t guarding Luka and he guarded Kawhi for a minute and it went poorly. Wemby is going to be a great team defender but I don’t think you can put him on say Damian Lillard or Luke or as evidenced by last night, Kawhi.
what kind of genius do you need to be born to evaluate 1 on 1 defense by defensive rating?
do you even know how it is calculated?
It's not about bailing... He isn't a PG... and why force him as that at the expense of Wemby's development?
For a few reasons: (1) it takes time to develop into an NBA point guard and he has some ability to do things, like dribble and be tall enough to see over the defense and he is athletic enough to guard any point guard; (2) he's one of the 5 best players on the team, but his more natural position is the one that Wemby plays, so they need to try to find another way to get him on the court; (3) if he can develop into a point guard, something that will take more than 3 games, then the Spurs can have a big lineup in place that can be dominant defensively while being efficient on offense. That's a big "if" but they have time to experiment. Spurs fans believe the hype that we are contenders right away with Wemby and that was always false to any rational observer. Now is the time to experiment and losing is not a bad thing if the experimenting finds the winning formulae or produces another high lottery pick that allows them to find their point guard of the future. You can't give up on an experiment 3 games in just because you lose some games, at least not when you have no shot of making the playoffs anyway.
I'm sketch on the idea of not even trying to win. IE another pretty clear tankjob. I think building teams through the draft is something the Spurs do best though, as well. The real x factor will be Wemby - does a season or two continuing at the bottom so we can gamble on contending by his 4th-5th season affect his mindset negatively in the long term?
Getting used to losing is a bad thing for any young player's mentality, especially once he starts making mega millions. BUT, if Wemby keeps his head about him, then things like this Jeremy Sochan PG experiment aren't really a big deal. It's pretty risky by Pop to just go with it and trust 19 year old Wemby won't change his mind about winning ASAP down the road.
I don't know that Sochan is a good defender. Pop puts everyone on the best players. He put Simmons and Murray on guys, White and Lonnie, Keldon and Vassell. Just like Pop starting Sochan at PG is not at all evidence that Sochan is the best play-maker at the roster, I don't see the Spurs' defensive usage of Sochan to be an indicator of anything. In terms of pure one-on-one defense, Jones was definitely better. I'd argue that Richardson was just as good. Qualitatively Vassell has shown some kind of potential there too. I didn't see a ton of good from anyone on the roster last season, though. This year, Osman is probably the best defender on the perimeter, and that's sad.
Never a starter, but 6th-man B.J. Armstrong played quite a bit with the starters.
Agreed... He always gets cooked and he doesn't have great instincts
He doesn't jump very well and is not very quick, challenged athletically. Lacks blocked shots, for his size he should have block shots. Quicker players blow right past him. Also for his size not a strong rebounder.
What helps him is his height and length that's about it. He's athletically challenged
And yet, he’s one of the most effective, intimidating shot blockers in the league. You can blow by him, and still get your pushed at the rim. Imagine when he learns positioning. He’ll be able to erase about 1/3 of the half court instead of like a paltry 1/4.
Every team’s offense knows exactly where Vic is, all of the time, and they bend their offense away from him.
BJ Armstrong dished a whopping 3.3 assists per game over his career. He was a 42.5% 3 point shooter, though.
Also, not a PG.
Looks like you found your new scapegoat. Everybody was thrilled with him last year, and now he can't play basketball at all, he hates Wembanyama, he has a bad behavior...
You guys always need to complain about something, you're just pathetic...
Sochan playing out of position is this year's ST Dejounte and Derrick need to start together. I was on that bandwagon and it was a dud once it was enacted.
Update: We have a PF. <<<<< From the first post
Going back to see who was excited to get Sochan and how many have changed on him.
Now Wemby has replaced him.
Sochan is a bench PF with this team or best traded
Last edited by rascal; 11-07-2023 at 11:08 AM.
Sochan playing the point is going to be rough but if things start to click it could be genius. You gotta remember he has NEVER played the point before and he is being asked to do that in a starting position at the NBA level. Its going to be rough but i think Sochan is mentally strong enough and has the tools to put it together.
We already know he fills the role of defensive enforcer, being the point guard is going to force him to become much more. Spurs must see something in him and believe that this is what is will take to push him to the next level.
If it doesn't work id like to see some lineup where he takes on the Draymond small ball 5 role. I think he would naturally do very well in that type of role.
We should run Bassey at point for defensive potential and then when he struggles just say it’s ok because he never played point guard before
I don’t believe Sochan is being made ultimately as a PG, but more as a facilitator like Bobo did. Wemby is still developing and getting stronger, and Pop is taking this time to also develop Sochan as a capable facilitator, a big defensive facilitator. I think eventually they will get a true PG either by trade or draft. I too get impatient, and think that Sochan could be attacking the rim and earning FT’s like he did last year, which he has abandoned some for becoming a pass-first facilitator. An somewhat Wemby needs a true PG to find him and set him up. But I think we will have to be patient because Pop and Co are still evaluating, developing. They could care less about scores and wins. They are observing and will make decisions eventually to maximize Wemby and everybody’s skills to result W’s. Trust the process.
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