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Fundamentals and lack of effort towards help defense.
The Spurs currently have the 2nd worst defensive rating in the league and last year we had an historically terrible defense.
We just added a major defensive difference maker in Wemby and we still don’t look much better on that side of the ball. Last night giving up 150 against the Pacers has to be an all time low point for Pop.
I’d like to hear some intelligent analysis of why that’s happening.
Is is scheme? If so please explain why.
Is it the players? If so please describe in specifics.
Is it both?
Here are some stats:
The Spurs are 4th from the bottom in defensive rebounding, 6th worst in second chance points allowed, and 17th overall defensive rb %.
We are 12th in steals and 8th in blocks.
We are 18th in points given up off turnovers.
We are 23rd in points in the paint.
I haven’t found the stats but heard in the broadcast last night that we’re giving up a league worst 38% shooting on 3s!!!
Fundamentals and lack of effort towards help defense.
On the 3pt shooting defense, one thing is that the Spurs players are too ready to abandon their man to try to help elsewhere. A quick pass gives a wide open shooter. They’re also too ready to drop back to the middle. Again, it leaves shooters open. Basically, they don’t trust each other on defense.
the numbers with Wemby on the court are considerably better. They are far worse when he is off the court. So basically, this is the same historically bad defensive unit when Wemby is out. Devin was basically out for most of last season as well but I don't know what the numbers are like when he is on the court. Although, he is usually on the floor at the same time as Wemby.
Maliki can't fight through screens and hesitates in deciding whether or not to go over or under a screen. Tre is better on help defense than one on one. McDermott is just slow as molasses. Zach is not a a very good rebounder. Keldon has been historically average as a defender. Bassey is decent but a bit undersized in many matchups.
The historically great defensive teams we had were great at communicating on switches and picks. I don't see any of that on this team, which may explain the way too many open looks that teams are getting from the three point line. Everyone is late in their rotations.
Seen more then once after Keldon scores and is doing an oooga booga flex his man hits a trey at the other end due to his slacker defense.
Including a key trey that Toronto made.
too quick to leave man to help where not needed, and then people arent covering for one another on time.
player A leaves his man in the corner to double. player B tries to cover player A's man when he receives the pass in the corner. but nobody immediately rotates to cover player B's guy until after that pass is made, meaning they're always late.
theres no communication, guys arent being attentive. or you'll sometimes see two defenders close out the same shooter
its just really sloppy all around, so its gotta be on the coaching imo
the pacers are the exact opposite. they... under-help, and they give up a ton of points at the rim. myles turner can block shots here and there, but he's always on an island and they give up pointsi n the paint. but they dont give up 3's
[QUOTE=JeffDuncan;10982361]On the 3pt shooting defense, one thing is that the Spurs players are too ready to abandon their man to try to help elsewhere. A quick pass gives a wide open shooter. They’re also too ready to drop back to the middle. Again, it leaves shooters open. Basically, they don’t trust each other on defense.[/QUOTE]
Or they are not too smart of a defender. I hear your point but to me it seems like no one wants to deal with a tough situation and they'd rather pass the hot potato than make it their mission to play tough, grueling D. They always say defense is all about hustle and really hard work.
This to me hits on the main issue. We help too much, and not very intelligently, so that we perhaps prevent a few easy buckets inside but trade that for a wide open 3 pretty regularly. I'd rather give up a bunch of inside stuff and see if people can score over Wemby than give up a ton of open 3s like we're doing now.
Like, just switch everything and go over the top of screens regularly and see if we can survive inside.
The bad rotations are also part of why we've struggled to rebound. Helpers often end up out of position to grab boards and leave wide open offensive rebounders.
The question about whether it is coaching or the players or both remains.
As some point it is coaching, but perhaps Pop is telling them the right things and the players are not getting it done because of inexperience of Basketball IQ issues.
the most annoying is when helping from the strong side, one very easy pass away to a wide open 3 point shooter. force them to make a longer skip pass, which allows for more recovery time. thats high school level coaching. dont help one pass away from the strong side. but we do it ALL the time
So you're saying we're improving. I like it.
We do it SO MUCH and it drives me crazy.
Never help off of a 3 point shooter from one pass away. NEVER.
You're better off giving up the 2 point attempt than giving up the easy 3.
This one feels like a coaching issue.
Lack of talent/consistent effort on that end + poor coaching
Terrible interior defense is leading to problems everywhere else. I’ve said it before, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more ineffectual defensive big man than Zach Collins. He provides next to nothing on that end. Other players have to help out and the result is open shots (if a help defender comes) or easy points in the paint (of help doesn’t come). I’m already ready for the Collins era as a starter to be over.
8/10 rotation players are subpar to awful defenders, with Devin being the only solid one alongside Wemby.
Keldon is a liability and will never improve enough to be a decent defender.
Zach is horrible, no other way around it. He's bad in the post because he lacks size compared to actual post-playing Cs, but he's also slow footed.
Jeremy is a good defender, but he's still a wing meaning he's too slow for elite guards.
Tre is undersized and gets torched because of it.
Branham is completely useless.
Same goes for Doug.
Haven't seen enough of Cedi yet, seems like he tries and knows what to do, but is just too slow.
Bassey has the potential, but is inexperienced and gets outplayed.
Devin is solid.
Wemby is obviously Wemby.
I'm not going to lie, it's kind of really frustrating how Spurs keep finding these role-players with fundamental flaws that are way too difficult to overcome and hold the entire team down.
Hopefully this will be the only season for experiments and as soon as the next summer they start making some serious moves.
Devin is the only one who has unquestionably proven that he can be a part of a contending roster, some others have potential, but noone is a must keep.
We've got potentially the greatest defender in the history of the game, he just needs fundamentally sound teammates who aren't liabilities on defense and behind the arc on the other end.
Legit all-star point guard, Devin, 2x 3-D wings and Wemby with a couple of seasons under his belt would be enough to contend.
Spurs have a dozen picks and all the cap space in the world. No more pet projects and players with "unique skillsets" (read: charity cases).
Maybe at this point Pop is a good teacher but he isn't a good coach.
I was laughing at the other day how many people kept going at Collins and meeting little resistance. The guy makes Bonner look like prime Mutombo.
Also maybe I'm being too simplistic but whatever happened to staying with your man at the 3 point line and funneling them towards the middle at your big man (put Wemby in the middle). It's not like he's going to be punished in today's NBA unless he's playing against Embiid or Jokic.
-we don't box out and thus give up a ton of offensive rebounds
-for whatever reason Zach Collins plays drop coverage
-Collins can not defend the rim, players can get to the rim and score over him at will
-Tre Jones, McDermott and Keldon can contest all they want, their man still hits a 3 in their face
-Branham is a turnstile in the pick & roll
-we give up a ton of open corner 3s which is exactly the shot you want to eliminate
-Sochan can't guard small guards
-we get killed in pick & rolls and have to overhelp leading to wide open 3s
- our offense is trash leading to our defense not being set on a lot of posessions
I said in preseason that I was concerned about 3-point and pick & roll defense. It looks even worse now. Also teams are not getting hot, our defense is just trash. Players are constantly having career shooting nights against us (Barnes, OG) and teams break their franchise records against us (Pacers).
With that being said we've seen some good sequences on defense against the Suns and Raptors, so I think there's still room to play better D, although my confidence in that is diminshing every game. In the first half against Toronto we played some of the best transition defense that I've seen in years. They couldn't get any fast break buckets. I think this team really needs to find a more intelligent way of collapsing on drivers, we're very good when it comes to getting deflections with active hands and running the fast break. This team is missing a rim protector and point of attack defender.
One of the things to improve pick & roll D and rim protection is Wemby playing Center, but the Spurs obviously don't want him to play there.
People wanted to make the excuse that last year’s team was terrible at defense because they were tanking. Well, maybe some of that is true, but even if it is, bad habits learned aren’t going to be fixed in 7 games. Also, some of these players conceivably are just bad at defense and don’t really have a long-term future on the Spurs. That may actually describe the majority of the roster tbh.
One thing I forgot to mention is that Wemby is already way stronger than any of us expected.
Letting him have freedom with another big on the floor is a nice gimmick, but we've already seen he's game-breaking at C.
Unless we're up against MVP level big who would just body Wemby, there's no reason to not play him at C.
Most bigs aren't skilled enough to exploit him in the post and he torches them on the other side. Just look at the numbers when he's the only big.
Even if we're up against Jokic or Embiid, Zach and Bassey certainly aren't stopping them, might aswell go all in with Wemby as C.
Not having Zach out there against other team's starters is already a huge boost, even if it's Doug taking his place.
I can understand this season not wanting to make huge changes until we see how the players play together, but I don't understand after they drafted a generational talent, they didn't immediately upgrade the coaching staff, and get at least one new highly qualified proven assistant coach.
this guy reads his spurstalk
I agree! We need a strong defensive minded center who can rebound and defend the paint!
Well said!
Wemby isn't enough to change this team in 7 games. Good team defense takes time. There are guys that have the ability to become good defenders, but it takes time and learning to play together. The starting line up as cons uted is a weird line up with everyone being over 6'5. At times they make it hard to score on them, but they don't play good defense on the three point line and they haven't played enough to be a good team defense. I mean, those Tim Duncan teams had below average defenders, but they were a great defensive team because they all knew where to be, they didn't foul, and they rebounded. They also played together for years. Again, defense isn't going to change over night.
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