Game Thread: San Antonio Spurs at New York Knicks November 8th, 2023 | 6:30 PM CT

[FkLA]

Again, that's toxic. Wemby being a star prospect means little to any of the players on the team. They aren't part-owners of the team. Just as the prospect of drafting Wemby shouldn't've motivated them to tank last year, the prospect of developing him isn't really their concern. They need to work on themselves and try to get their shots. If Pop wanted to run a system where they kept giving Wemby the ball, he would be calling plays to that end rather than just letting them "figure it out". The Spurs got rid of their vets and instead purposefully got a bunch of young or raw guys. This is the result that will have, especially given how weak Pop's coaching hand is right now.

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect. What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in? There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game. He's forcing right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball. Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

[SPURt]

Spurs are gonna go as Wemby goes. Tough night at the office. Keldon’s missed free throws followed by the Brunson three was the dagger. Sochan had a better game, so glass 1/8th full?

[Thomas82]

Hubie dropping truth bombs for Spurs fans.

What did he say? I didn't get to see the game because I was at work.

[KobesAchilles]

Can we trade for CP3?

[Barfunk]

Defense shouldn't be this bad. Wemby, Vassell and Sochan were all A+ defensive prospects. Even if they weren't, a young team such as this should be better than they are on hustle and fresh legs alone. Coaching should definitely do better there.

And then, there's the obvious fact that they don't know how to utilize Wemby on the offensive end yet.

So, yeah, Pop should roll up his sleeves and start doing some better coaching.

+1/ Agreed, coaching should do a better job but of course I'm not gonna act like I fully know what I'm seeing. Team also just appears as if it sucks currently though as well. Hopefully we can figure some things out!

[z0sa]

You should probably sober up. He's fine. It's just that Pop needs to start doing his job and coaching the team. If Wemby is offering some resistance behind the scenes, he needs to work with Victor to get that straightened out. If other guys on the team are freezing Wemby out, Pop needs to handle it. If this is what the players do organically, Pop needs to GMO the out of them.

Wemby calls for passes constantly when he's not even close to the best option. Guys will be getting to the rim, and instead of screen for them, he'll slip and call for a pass. Guys will get getting ready to take wide open threes, and Wemby will be calling for a pass rather than getting in position for a potential offensive rebound. It happens all the time.

These two posts feel like they're from different people. Is it okay for him to call for the ball when he's not open, needs to be establishing position, etc per your post? Just curious if you're walking it back.

For the most part, agree though. I just would prefer to see more hustle than less

[paperboy77]

free agent. Spurs are team Slovenia.

I'll believe it when i see it. Just saying you are reaching very high and I don't think that's realistic given our history of attracting any big free agents in their prime. (Don't even say Aldrige!)

[paperboy77]

The Spurs are looking to be good in two years. This year is learning curve for Wemby and confirmation for Vassel. Next year, another high pick and hopefully a decent PG to orchestrate the team and have Sochan back to his position and in two year we need to use the picks to look for a good player.

That's like the perfect world scenario. I think they need to take some chances and trade away some of the players we "think" are actually good in order to get a proven player. What really frustrates me is that we had opportunities to get these type of players given our money situation and assets. Unfortunately we are way too timid or complacent or incompetent to do what needs to be done. Also, we absolutely lucked out with Wemby so this is nothing to do with any kind of skill by our front office.

[objective]

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect. What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in? There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game. He's forcing right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball. Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

I think you're right about when he forces things, it's because he's frustrated and goes on tilt. I think the pacers game might have been the one where he just comes out in the second half just selfishly puking up bad shots. He needs a game manager because he needs to be managed to prevent this kind of at ude getting too toxic.

Vassell's presence helps a little because he gets his dependable touches and shots, but everything else is a crapshoot.

But they can't have 75 or 74 more games of this crap. If anyone thinks Wemby takes bad shots and is selfish and in the way while calling for the ball nonstop, it's probably going to be a lot worse by all-star break if this doesn't get managed soon.

I say trade for Brogdan. He's his own problem and not a long term solution but Spurs need someone with maturity to take control. Jones isn't good enough imo to just go with him over Sochan and call it a day

[spurs1990]

Hey LA fell by 32 pts so night wasn’t all bad

[Marcus Bryant]

This wasn’t Trader Bob Bass taking a couple years to build a supporting cast for DRob, or TD walking into an established contender in his rookie season.

Not sure what we’re expecting here, this is a different scenario, a true lotto team that just added a generational talent. Gonna be a different rookie year for him than David and Timmy.

[kxs783kms]

Every game Wemby does this weird jump where an opposing player will be shooting a 3 and even if he's in the lane, not running towards the shooter, or if he's on the opposite side of the court, he'll jump as if he's affecting the shooter. It's nothing major, it just strange and funny because he does this once or twice every game.

[CorrectCrusader]

Worried about the Branham and Wesley picks, looks like they're just flat out busts so far.

[Chinook]

These two posts feel like they're from different people. Is it okay for him to call for the ball when he's not open, needs to be establishing position, etc per your post? Just curious if you're walking it back.

For the most part, agree though. I just would prefer to see more hustle than less

I'm not panicking over what the team is doing eight games into the Wemby era. That doesn't mean I don't think Wemby is behaving in a way that warrants criticism or think that it isn't harmful to the team to try to force Wemby to get passes when he's not in position to get them. That needs to get hammered out, not because it's a catastrophe, but because there's too much season to go to let things linger like this.

[objective]

If other guys on the team are freezing Wemby out, Pop needs to handle it. If this is what the players do organically, Pop needs to GMO the out of them.

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

[Spurs Homer]

Im shocked none of you cliff jumpers commented on the garden crowd chanting “overrated”

as wemby was shooting free throws

lol

[rascal]

Im shocked none of you cliff jumpers commented on the garden crowd chanting “overrated”

as wemby was shooting free throws

lol

New York crowd is rough. They'll let you know when you're playing bad. They came out to see Wemby and he disappointed them.

[z0sa]

I'm not panicking over what the team is doing eight games into the Wemby era. That doesn't mean I don't think Wemby is behaving in a way that warrants criticism or think that it isn't harmful to the team to try to force Wemby to get passes when he's not in position to get them. That needs to get hammered out, not because it's a catastrophe, but because there's too much season to go to let things linger like this.

Yeah, exactly. I do want to actually bring the panic button up again - not as grandstanding, but to genuinely seek your opinion. What if anything should we be scared of? For me, it's exactly what I described - Wemby checking out. He's 19, Pop's 70whatever. It's not unfathomable that the two don't actually see eye to eye, despite Pop's reputation. What if coaching isn't the solution? What if Wemby envisions isolating on one half of the court as a big part of his game, considering how sh*tty our current lineup honestly is? It's just a hypothetical.

[baseline bum]

This young team needs a Terry mings, Elie, Kersey, AJ type.

So much to learn.

Yeah, was really hoping to land Brook Lopez or CP3

[Chinook]

What's toxic is the idea that complimentary players need to get their shots up at the expense of the generational prospect.

To be clear, I'm not calling your view toxic to have as a fan. It's natural for you want the Spurs to show off their fancy new player. But in the locker-room, trying to force guys to forget everything they've been taught up to this point and to instead defer to a guy who can't even set a screen properly is going to cause problems.

What's the ceiling of all these guys if you take Wemby's ceiling out of the picture? The play-in?

The ceiling of these guys is to be decent players who might have long and lucrative NBA careers. There's no guarantee they'll be Wemby's teammate for a long time. Pop should be implementing a system to get them all points, but if it's going to be without structures, guys are going to try to play the way they know how rather than worshiping a guy who doesn't seem to have much interest in helping others out. Collins and Bassey are far, far better screeners, which means it's so much easier to work with those guys to create situations to get both them and the ball-handlers good looks.

There has to be balance, that allows complimentary guys to "prove" themselves and for Wemby to be the focal point. It's not like other guys weren't allowed to show out during his 38 point game.

Yes, there does have to be balance. No one in their right mind should disagree there.

He's forcing right now because he goes long stretches without even touching the ball.

No. He's forcing because he struggles to score sometimes and gets frustrated. He got tons of touches to start the game and still forced . The Suns game wasn't them deciding to give him the ball. It was Phoenix defending him with small players and having no IQ in terms of trying to stop him for getting into his spots. He couldn't do anything against the Knicks because he's not going to beat good defensive bigs off the dribble right now, and very few are going to let him have a clean catch in the first place. The moment Wemby failed to hit any of his early shots, any chance of him forcing the Knicks to change their plan went out the window. Victor pretty much gave up on the game at that point.

Basically just playing one on one for most of his shots since he is almost completely uninvolved otherwise.

Honestly, the Spurs actually pass much more when Wemby's on the court than when he's off it. I don't think there's a ton of evidence that they are freezing him out when they assist at a higher rate with him on the floor. In fact, Wemby's on/off for the team's assist percentage is the highest on the team. It's an indictment of him that he's not benefitting from guys passing. The narrative that they're selfishly looking for theirs and ignoring him doesn't match the stats. Here are two potential explanations: 1) They're colluding to freeze Wemby out and are basically playing money in the middle with him; 2) They're running offense and trying to find guys, but Wemby isn't presenting good scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Some want to assume it's that first one, but how many people even went back and looked at the 38-point game to see what the difference was?

[Dex]

We just lost to a team named after pants.

[Dex]

Spurs are gonna go as Wemby goes. Tough night at the office. Keldon’s missed free throws followed by the Brunson three was the dagger. Sochan had a better game, so glass 1/8th full?

I am 100% being reactionary after two bad losses, but...

Keldon needs to get his together because he does not deserve to be a starter on this team, or any team TBH

Dude plays terrible defense, doesn't really run offense other than barreling towards the rim, and his trebuchet-style three isn't falling.

Being a "good teammate" only gets you so far in the NBA.

[Chinook]

Yeah, exactly. I do want to actually bring the panic button up again - not as grandstanding, but to genuinely seek your opinion. What if anything should we be scared of? For me, it's exactly what I described - Wemby checking out. He's 19, Pop's 70whatever. It's not unfathomable that the two don't actually see eye to eye, despite Pop's reputation. What if coaching isn't the solution? What if Wemby envisions isolating on one half of the court as a big part of his game, considering how sh*tty our current lineup honestly is? It's just a hypothetical.

I do think Wemby checked out early in this game, which suggests there are issues between him and coaches. That's something that has to be fixed, but it's not a panic situation. The team can't really develop until they get this type of stuff worked out. I'm currently assuming they'll figure out different ways to get Wemby the ball in advantage situations, even against teams that can defend better than the Suns. However, that's going to require a certain amount of buy-in from Wemby that he might not believe he has to give until he can see more evidence. I'm very curious about when the Spurs are going to start altering the rotation. When they do that and what choices they make will give us information on what Pop thinks the problems are. Wemby's going to respond to that, and that will let us know where his mind is at. Then of course we'll get into trading season, and we'll see what posture the Spurs have.

[FkLA]

I don't know if Pop has that fire anymore, and even in the past when he did it felt like it took years for him to get Parker to give the ball to Kawhi. I think it finally culminated when Pop was jumping up and down, screaming and pointing while Parker had it in the halfcourt and it finally happened.

I don't see Pop doing that anymore. It's probably going to take a coach in the floor to wrangle things, as in a point guard.

It's weird that Pop came out that one game and was like "yeah, this is the first game we tried to play through Victor". And since then we're going on like the 3rd or 4th game where his involvement in the offense would lead you to believe he's the last option on the floor.

[Chinook]

I don't think people appreciate enough that other teams have coaches who scout and make game plans for how to deal with Wemby. That's a huge reason why he hasn't been very effective on defense recently, but it's also a huge reason he's struggling on offense. Playing against legit centers isn't good for his game right now. There's a difference in how to scheme perimeter players off a guy versus how to scheme centers off him. The trade-off is supposed to be that Collins goes off against the opposing PFs. He's been playing well, but you'll never want Zach taking enough possessions to truly cause damage. MAYBE replacing Collins and Sochan with Jones and Osman might run the opposing PF off the court, but if the opposing center is anything on offense, it might take a lot out of Wemby to guard him. Does that mean the Spurs should play Wemby at center? I'd be curious to see if the numbers with him at that position have changed since the first few games.