1. #36151
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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  2. #36152
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    America has nary room, v. Nary.

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    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    "NEVER SURRENDER!"

  4. #36154
    Believe.
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    I didn't forget that part. It wasn't my point.

    I agree with his military assessment of the current battlefield situation which is what I quoted. It's his political opinion that we need to continue to support them but the talk about negotiations tells you where this is headed.

    By the way, I don't support the US cutting off all support for Ukraine and never have. But we shouldn't be footing the bill for a quixotic attempt to reclaim all territory which will cost a lot more. EU can if they want to. Read my many posts on this and you'd know that.
    Quixotic? I have read the serials several times. How do you figure?

  5. #36155
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I didn't forget that part. It wasn't my point.

    I agree with his military assessment of the current battlefield situation which is what I quoted. It's his political opinion that we need to continue to support them but the talk about negotiations tells you where this is headed.

    By the way, I don't support the US cutting off all support for Ukraine and never have. But we shouldn't be footing the bill for a quixotic attempt to reclaim all territory which will cost a lot more. EU can if they want to. Read my many posts on this and you'd know that.
    The "current" battlefield situation continually changes, and in the case of Ukraine is possibly directly related to the support different countries can provide to it.

    That, however, doesn't mean the US or any other country should be deciding what's best for Ukraine. That's a decision they'll have to make themselves.

    What you didn't post is also related to your point, because when Europe says they have no choice but continue supporting, it's implicit that they don't think Russia is serious about any negotiation.

    Putler's calculation is that if his soyboy Trump is elected next year, the US will bend the knee, and thus make things more difficult for Ukraine and Europe in general.

  6. #36156
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    The "current" battlefield situation continually changes, and in the case of Ukraine is possibly directly related to the support different countries can provide to it.

    That, however, doesn't mean the US or any other country should be deciding what's best for Ukraine. That's a decision they'll have to make themselves.

    What you didn't post is also related to your point, because when Europe says they have no choice but continue supporting, it's implicit that they don't think Russia is serious about any negotiation.

    Putler's calculation is that if his soyboy Trump is elected next year, the US will bend the knee, and thus make things more difficult for Ukraine and Europe in general.
    And it would be the first decision they'll have made and it will be after Blinken gives it to them after Biden gives it to Blinken. America/Biden is running thisPERIOD

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    "NEVER SURRENDER!"

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    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    ...Big deal. Stinkin' ass Biden swore on the Good Book to "Shut it down." Instead the old bas killed over 3/4 of a million Americans & counting.

  12. #36162
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    And it would be the first decision they'll have made and it will be after Blinken gives it to them after Biden gives it to Blinken. America/Biden is running thisPERIOD
    Micdrop.gif

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    As Cargo Flights Leave Kaliningrad, Air Defence Systems Disappear

    ...
    Other users on X speculated about what cargo the planes could be moving, particularly the flights by the larger Antonov An-124 Ruslan planes,one of the largest heavy strategic military transport aircraft in use today. Users on X suggested that the cargo could contain S-400 missile systems bound for Rostov-on-Don after recent Ukrainian strikes using long-distance ATACMS missiles damaged Russian air defences in the occupied Luhansk region. On November 9, the UK’s Ministry of Defence wrote that in order to maintain coverage over Ukraine, it was “highly likely” that Russia would need to reallocate surface-to-air missile systems from elsewhere.

    This prompted Bellingcat to investigate.

    Bellingcat has found a marked change at two air defence sites in synthetic-aperture radar (SAR) imagery since the reported cargo flights, indicating that at least some of Russia’s S-400 batteries have indeed been moved away from their previous locations in the Kaliningrad Region. Where exactly they have gone remains uncertain.
    ...
    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023...ems-disappear/

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  15. #36165
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    The old CLUSTER BOMB AFFAIR! Biden: "I am appalled that Putin would use these hideous weapons. I pledge now to all peoples of the earth that the United States of America and me President of the United States of America will never use these hideous weapons known far and as wide as Hillary's ass CLUSTER BOMBS. So help me whichever God you cherish."

    A week later? Russia gets hit with CLUSTER BOMBS.

    tee, hee.

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    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The "current" battlefield situation continually changes, and in the case of Ukraine is possibly directly related to the support different countries can provide to it.

    That, however, doesn't mean the US or any other country should be deciding what's best for Ukraine. That's a decision they'll have to make themselves.

    What you didn't post is also related to your point, because when Europe says they have no choice but continue supporting, it's implicit that they don't think Russia is serious about any negotiation.

    Putler's calculation is that if his soyboy Trump is elected next year, the US will bend the knee, and thus make things more difficult for Ukraine and Europe in general.
    It's not impossible that will happen. It's way too soon to write off Trump.

  18. #36168
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    To those who have missed the previous 30 years, here is a short list of the results of negotiations with Russia that it never respected:

    1. The Budapest Memorandum of 1994. Russia agreed to “respect independence, sovereignty, and the existing borders of Ukraine” as well as “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine”. Breached by Russia invading Crimea in 2014.

    2. The Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty of 1997. Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and “reaffirmed the inviolability of the borders” between the two countries. Russia breached it in 2014.

    3. The OSCE Istanbul Summit in 1999. Russia committed to withdrawing its troops from Moldova’s Transdniestrian region and Georgia until the end of 2002. That never happened.

    4. The 2008 Georgia ceasefire agreement following Russian aggression against the country. Russia agreed that “Russian military forces must withdraw to the lines prior to the start of hostilities”. That never happened.

    5. The Ilovaysk “Green Corridor” in August 2014 and other “humanitarian” death corridors. Russia pledged to let Ukrainian forces leave the encircled town of Ilovaysk in the east of Ukraine, but instead opened fire and killed 366 Ukrainian troops. In the following years, Russia attacked numerous humanitarian corridors in Syria.

    6. The “Minsk” agreements of 2014 and 2015. Russia agreed to cease the fire in the east of Ukraine. There had been 200 rounds of talks and 20 attempts to enforce a ceasefire, all of which the Russian side promptly violated. On February 24th, 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

    7. The 2022 Black Sea Grain Initiative. Russia pledged to “provide maximum assurances regarding a safe and secure environment for all vessels engaged in this initiative." It then hindered the initiative's operation for months before withdrawing unilaterally a year later.

    NB: I am only focused on deals made with Russia to address specific issues and conflicts. I am not mentioning almost 400 international treaties that Russia has breached since 2014.

    There are no conclusions to be drawn here, except that no one can seriously use the words "Russia" and "negotiations" in the same phrase.

    Putin is a habitual liar who promised international leaders that he would not attack Ukraine days before his invasion in February 2022.

    Russia's tactic has remained consistent in its many wars over the last three decades: kill, grab, lie, and deny.

    Why would anyone genuinely believe that Russia in 2023 is any different from Russia in 1994, 1997, 1999, 2008, 2014, 2015, and 2022?

    I am just going to post this when Dan starts babbling about quixotic negotiations from Ukraine.

  19. #36169
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    It's not impossible that will happen. It's way too soon to write off Trump.
    ...you learned that lesson 7 years & a lifetime ago, my Winester.

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