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It's also a strategic loss for the US and "rules-based order" it supports. By backing Israel, we've nuked any credibility we may have had regarding rules/values
Arms transfers > meek lip service to helping civilians.
Biden's argument that total support for Israel's total war on Gaza is needed to break the cycle of violence and prevent future war is absurd on its face.
This war may already be a strategic loss for Israel.
https://daniellarison.substack.com/p...tation-of-gazaLike the many other bombing campaigns before it, this one wreaks havoc on the civilian population without doing much to achieve the stated goals of the government doing the bombing. Pape wrote a recent article for Foreign Affairs in which he spelled out the failure of the Israeli bombing campaign:
Whatever the ultimate goal, Israel’s collective devastation of Gaza raises deep moral problems. But even judged purely in strategic terms, Israel’s approach is doomed to failure—and indeed, it is already failing.
Like other policies of collective punishment, bombing the civilian population typically fails to weaken the regime or group that the policy is supposed to be targeting. Instead of turning the population against the regime or group, it naturally intensifies the population’s hostility to those responsible for the bombing. To the extent that bombing has an effect on the population’s political views, it will tend to drive them into the arms of hardliners. Even if some significant percentage of Hamas fighters are killed in this war, the IDF has been acting as the lead recruiter for militant groups with its brutal and criminal bombing campaign
It's also a strategic loss for the US and "rules-based order" it supports. By backing Israel, we've nuked any credibility we may have had regarding rules/values
Arms transfers > meek lip service to helping civilians.
You'll never catch a news source in America stating such: not CNN, MSNBC, nor FOX for that matter. Nary a one. Nary.
There's Nobel Peace Prizes comin' and the timing is ultra important, sassafras.
The current iteration of war in Gaza is deadlier to civilians than WWII.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-killing-study
I never said that you had a conspiracy theory. I said that the numbers you were adjusted gratuitously taking advantage of the fact that tiny nature of Gaza. I was speaking to your argument not you. I did say that type of argument was misleading. That is not a characterization of you, sorry.
I could go into the why of you make those arguments but I don't because I don't make it personal.
At least you take confrontation better than Chump does.
I am not going to deny that I do that sometimes. But I really think you need to do some self reflection in your position on this and what you are doing here. You are definitely casting character aspersions my way. I am still not coming back at you.
Enter White Knight, stage left:
Can't start a War and then cry CeaseFire weeks later
Palestinians argue this is an ongoing 75 year War. How does one negotiate or live peacefully alongside such mindset?
I don't think it's casting aspersions to observe that you tend to personalize things to the exclusion of topical conversation. Your subthread with CD is the obvious example here, but I've seen you do this with maybe half a dozen other posters on this board in other contexts FWIW.
your post doesnt make much sense, theres nothing practical to be taken from it. If something hasnt happened for 70 years, regardless of the reason, it would be stupid for palestinians to make plans assuming that change (and as we have seen in this latest episode, a decision that is not theirs to make anyway). You continued to gloss right over that millions of palestinans have already left and that dynamic is at the heart of the conflict.
then you say the sunni neighbors have changed their policy-though not in any way that would favor the palestinians- then you say seem to agree that hamas is kind of irrelevant because the state sponsors and israeli antagonists continue to exist anyway as they always have. so somethings changed, somethings didnt, you know what else hasnt changed? that palestinians are scattered around the world, their home country reduced to a tiny area and their rights severely restricted and, the occasional genocidal collective punishment bombing campaign.
So to sum up, at the end of this campaign israel will still have enemies around them, and palestinians will continue to live in apartheid hating their oppressors. but sure in the grand scheme of things 7000 children bombed to death in a month is NBD amirite? gaza is tiny, why cant they just climb the fences and wait it out on the other side?
There's no other side who wins though.
If Israel removes all the people of Gaza and kills alĺ the Khamas (unlikely, imo) that won't be a win. Israel will be surrounded by countries that hate them even more, and will still have to deal with the more populous West Bank which, to put it mildly, will not be more favorably inclined to them now.
Lose-lose is a likely possibility.
Israel and the US are sowing more generational grudges Neither will be safer or have more friends no matter what happens.
There's no rational or practical limit to how much worse things can get for everyone short of complete annihilation.
The West is flexing. Protected Ukraine and now Israel. And no one outside the immediate sphere of conflict stood up. I haven't seen Europeans this united in a long time. On the other hand Muslims are also uniting.
But their perspective is flawed. They live in the West and blame us for all their problems. USA & Russia have both raged War there even recently and sooner than later so will China. We can't allow our communities to be hostage to foreign drama. There will always be an excuse.
Starvation, dirty water and disease. More collective punishment.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-pa...8aff18c79b310c
Where is the Muslim Brotherhood and the Army of Islam? All the Sunni Jihaidis? Where is the denunciation and troop buildup from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia? That is how it is different.your post doesnt make much sense, theres nothing practical to be taken from it. If something hasnt happened for 70 years, regardless of the reason, it would be stupid for palestinians to make plans assuming that change (and as we have seen in this latest episode, a decision that is not theirs to make anyway). You continued to gloss right over that millions of palestinans have already left and that dynamic is at the heart of the conflict.
then you say the sunni neighbors have changed their policy-though not in any way that would favor the palestinians- then you say seem to agree that hamas is kind of irrelevant because the state sponsors and israeli antagonists continue to exist anyway as they always have. so somethings changed, somethings didnt, you know what else hasnt changed? that palestinians are scattered around the world, their home country reduced to a tiny area and their rights severely restricted and, the occasional genocidal collective punishment bombing campaign.
So to sum up, at the end of this campaign israel will still have enemies around them, and palestinians will continue to live in apartheid hating their oppressors. but sure in the grand scheme of things 7000 children bombed to death in a month is NBD amirite? gaza is tiny, why cant they just climb the fences and wait it out on the other side?
The significance of Gaza being tiny is in how normalizing it to non tiny nations was just gratuitous number inflation. Nice strawman though.
I never said that it was okay. You are like wine in that you cannot even mention Hamas in your analysis outside of discounting them. Hamas is culpable too and needs to go.
PS Hamas is a Iranian proxy. Is Iran a Sunni state?
So then there is a practical and rational limit. Can you see anything good coming out of this?
Given your standard is making things personal you most certainly are not practicing what you preach.
Your argument basically boils down to I should not be listened to because all I do is personalize things. I get that you have to do things the 'bless your heart' way but you are not as inscrutable as you would hope.
Prima facie it is trash. Your blanket statement makes it easy.
The White Knight circles the fray, laughing to try and work up the courage to engage. His questions lay unasked for fear of past interactions.
Damn, the trees ain't occupied by 2 of ya's as much as they used to be.
tee, hee.
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